Why the right can't accept the truth of manmade climate change

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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Maybe the following article from the latest issue of The New Republic provides an explanation as to why conservatives are so darned adamant that Anthropogenic Climate Change is nonsense. I confess to being totally at a loss to explain how otherwise bright people can be so committed to a position that in any other context would be universally labeled loony tunes.

I've tried to edit this piece down the best I could, without sacrificing continuity and clarity, but it's still pretty darned long.

Link: http://www.tnr.com/article/environm...8/gop-global-warming-denial-insanity?page=0,0

Why Do GOP Candidates Continue to Deny Climate Change?

One interesting fact heading into the mid-term elections: Almost none of the GOP Senate candidates seem to believe in the idea that humans are heating the planet. A few hedge their bets—John McCain says he’s no longer sure if global warming is “man-made or natural.” (In 2004, he told me: “The race is on. Are we going to have significant climate change and all its consequences, or are we going to try to do something early on?”) Most are more plainspoken. Marco Rubio, for instance, attacks his opponent Charlie Crist as “a believer in man-made global warming,” explaining, “I don’t think there’s the scientific evidence to justify it. The climate is always changing.” The most likely cause of that change, according to Ron Johnson, who is leading the Senate race in Wisconsin: “It’s far more likely that it’s just sunspot activity.”
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On what is quite possibly the single biggest issue the planet has faced, American conservatism has reached a near-unanimous position, and that position is: pay no attention to all those scientists.
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Only 10 percent of Republicans think that global warming is very serious, according to recent data. Conservative opinion has been steadily hardening—for decades Republicans were part of the coalition on almost every environmental issue, but now it’s positively weird to think that as late as 2004, McCain thought it would make sense for a GOP presidential candidate to position himself as a fighter for climate legislation. And all of that is troubling. Because we’re going to be dealing with climate change for a very long time, and if one of the great schools of political thought in this country has checked out completely, that process is going to be even harder. I don’t have any expectation that conservatives will mute their tune between now and November—but it is worth thinking in some depth about what lies beneath this newly overwhelming sentiment.
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No, something else [other than money and new science] is causing people to fly into a rage about climate. Read the comments on one of the representative websites: Global warming is a “fraud” or a “plot.” Scientists are liars out to line their pockets with government grants. Environmentalism is nothing but a money-spinning “scam.” These people aren’t reading the science and thinking, I have some questions about this. They’re convinced of a massive conspiracy.
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Part of the conservative creed has always been that markets, left to themselves, accomplish most tasks more efficiently than government regulation. That’s true, of course, just as it’s true that markets don’t do everything you want. (That’s why we have cheap deregulated airlines and yet retain the Federal Aviation Administration.) But conservatives have grown more insistent on the deification of markets in recent years; Rand Paul is ever less an outlier. If markets do damage, that’s okay—it’s creative destruction à la Schumpeter.

But even if you accept that process absolutely within the economic sphere (and very few of us do, which is why Rand Paul just might lose), it doesn’t follow that it works outside of it. Destruction of the planet’s fundamental physical systems isn’t creative—it’s just destruction. If Microsoft disappears, innovators will take its place. If Arctic ice disappears, no young John Galt is going to remake it in his garage. The essential question is: Is the environment a subset of the economy, or is it the other way around? Or, more combatively, you really think you can out-argue physics? Hayek’s good, but atmospheric chemistry is a tough opponent.

If conservatives acknowledged the crisis, they could make a powerful contribution to the solution. One option for tackling global warming is for the government to regulate just about everything. Or, we could limit government’s role to simply imposing a price on fossil fuel that reflects the damage it does. This wouldn’t even need to be a traditional tax: One proposal gaining ground is to take every dollar produced by such a levy and rebate it to each citizen, using government as a kind of pass-through. You’d get the signal from your electric bill to start insulating, and the numbers on the gas pump would urge you in the direction of a hybrid car, but most people would come out ahead. It’s a plan designed with real deference to a conservative understanding of human nature.

Instead of that kind of debate, though, most of the movement has decided to describe any regulation of carbon as eco-fascism. . . As Christine O’Donnell put it in her attack on the nanny state, “You’re not the boss of me.” But here’s the thing: Carbon dioxide mixes easily and freely in the atmosphere. If the climate change you caused followed you around like Pigpen’s cloud, then no problem. But it doesn’t—your Navigator drowns Bangladeshis. Given the magnitude of the changes now underway, and the way they will foreclose individual choices unto the generations, it’s possible to argue that this is the greatest attack on freedom we’ve ever witnessed.

In response, there’s a kind of right-wing nationalism that demands we take no action until China, India, and the rest have played their part. But that doesn’t even make mathematical sense—China’s per capita emissions are one-quarter of ours. If leadership in the world means anything, then that imposes certain burdens on us. But it feels like resentment is becoming the leitmotif of conservatism, in a way that makes it ever more cramped and ever less noble. In this worldview, environmentalists are seen as scolds or even traitors. A recent poll asked right-wing bloggers to name the worst people in American history. President Obama came in second. The victor? Jimmy Carter, ten spots ahead of John Wilkes Booth (Al Gore was thirteenth, tied with Al Sharpton, Noam Chomsky, Jane Fonda, and Harry Reid). If Jimmy Carter was the worst guy the country ever produced, we’re doing pretty well—but surely it was his nagging reminders that there were limits to our national power that account for his ranking. New York Times columnist Ross Douthat wrote an embarrassed piece earlier this fall about the failure of conservatives to take climate change seriously—it was the ’70s, “a great decade for apocalyptic enthusiasms,” that turned many of them off, he concluded. That’s not much of an argument—it’s like saying “conservatives mostly got it wrong on civil rights, so let’s never listen to them again about liberty and freedom.”
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There are already parts of the generally conservative body politic that have begun to get the message. Our religious institutions, for instance, which send hundreds of thousands of Americans overseas every year to do relief and mission work. Those good-hearted people are starting to understand that development can’t happen in a world wracked by increasing climatic chaos. The leaders of many evangelical seminaries and some of the country’s largest churches have signed a letter calling for action on global warming with “moral passion and concrete action” and explaining that “Christians must care about climate change because we are called to love our neighbors.”

The military has also started to pay close attention. Earlier this year, the Quadrennial Defense Review noted that climate change could “act as an accelerant of instability or conflict.” The authors were looking ahead to destabilizing events similar to this year’s flood on the Indus—the sharpest blow that Pakistan has suffered in years (which is saying something) and precisely the kind of catastrophe every climate model predicts will become more common in a warmer, wetter world.

What missionaries and militaries have in common is that they have to deal with reality. In fact, that was always the trump card of conservatism: It refused to indulge in sentimentality and idealism, insisting on seeing the world as it was. But, at the moment, it’s the right that is indulging in illusion, insisting, fists balled up and face turning red, that the reports from scientists simply can’t be true.

I understand why those reports are bad news. Dealing with climate change really will be the most difficult thing we’ve ever done. (Too many progressives are clinging to their own illusion that we can simply rip the internal combustion engine out of our economy, toss in a windmill, and carry on as before.) The only thing harder than dealing with it will be not dealing with it and inheriting a world radically changed.

Conservatives in much of the rest of the world have figured this out. The new Tory government in England is doing at least as much as its Labour predecessors; in Germany, Angela Merkel is presiding over one of the greatest renewable-energy buildouts ever. And eventually, I imagine, American conservatism, too, will come around and make its vital contributions to the task of figuring out what needs to be done to protect the civilization we should cherish. But we don’t have until eventually. We have, the scientists say, a very short time to make very big changes. So let’s hope the fever passes quickly.

In the meantime, many of us are rolling up our sleeves and getting down to work. On October 10, in thousands of communities around the country, we’re holding a Global Work Party to put up solar panels and dig community gardens and lay out bike paths. We don’t think we can stop climate change this way—that will take action to reset the price of carbon. But we do think we can show the way. Not with a Tea Party, but with a work party. Which, in a different era, would have appealed to conservatives above all.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
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I dont think conservatives deny MMGW, but more of 1. how much damage man has actually done; 2. how much man could actually affect GW.

I also think most conservatives think "crisis" is a pretty strong word. Are there conservatives that actually deny man contributes AT ALL to GW? I havent read anything like that. Most of what Ive read and heard is the degree.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,860
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I dont think conservatives deny MMGW, but more of 1. how much damage man has actually done; 2. how much man could actually affect GW.

I also think most conservatives think "crisis" is a pretty strong word. Are there conservatives that actually deny man contributes AT ALL to GW? I havent read anything like that. Most of what Ive read and heard is the degree.

Sen. Inhofe.
 
Oct 16, 1999
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The right can't accept the truth about a lot of things. Obama's US citizenship. Iraq's WMD's. Reaganomics. The list goes on and on and on and on...
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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I dont think conservatives deny MMGW, but more of 1. how much damage man has actually done; 2. how much man could actually affect GW.

I also think most conservatives think "crisis" is a pretty strong word. Are there conservatives that actually deny man contributes AT ALL to GW? I havent read anything like that. Most of what Ive read and heard is the degree.

I really don't think this is the sticking point. Replace "climate change" with "significant manmade climate change" in the article and the points made still hold.

To paraphrase the author, the right isn't engaging in a scholarly debate on the merits of this study or that, and then framing alternative hypotheses to explain the observations; it's dismissing the science wholesale as a money-driven fraud.
 

epidemis

Senior member
Jun 6, 2007
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No, the real truth why the right doesn't accept global warming is because anyone who doesn't accept global warming is rightwing. ;)
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
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Sen. Inhofe.

Just a quick 10 minute Google search...it looks like he's not denying MMGW, but rather, as I said, denying its a "crisis". Such as his famous quote

I called the threat of catastrophic global warming the "greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people,"

Bolded is mine.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
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I really don't think this is the sticking point. Replace "climate change" with "significant manmade climate change" in the article and the points made still hold.

To paraphrase the author, the right isn't engaging in a scholarly debate on the merits of this study or that, and then framing alternative hypotheses to explain the observations; it's dismissing the science wholesale as a money-driven fraud.

That would be a major difference in meaning then. Changes the topic significantly, actually. And I guess we'll agree to disagree. I believe that IS the major sticking point between the two camps of beliefs. One side thinks its a crisis, all man made, the other side doesnt.
 

monovillage

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Jul 3, 2008
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Just another article by a left wing environmentalist that claims to be able to tell you what conservatives think. It's a fail. He's making a good chunk of money preaching "it's the end of the world as we know it" and it's preaching, because Catastrophic Climate Disruption sure isn't based on science.

http://www.billmckibben.com/books.html
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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That would be a major difference in meaning then. Changes the topic significantly, actually. And I guess we'll agree to disagree. I believe that IS the major sticking point between the two camps of beliefs. One side thinks its a crisis, all man made, the other side doesnt.

The right has changed their story several times. At first they argued that there's no such thing as climate change. Now they're arguing that there is climate change but it's natural (even though there's no natural driver that can explain the climate change, and even though the physical properties of CO2 are undeniable). Some of them are now moving on and arguing that climate change will be beneficial.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
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The right has changed their story several times. At first they argued that there's no such thing as climate change. Now they're arguing that there is climate change but it's natural (even though there's no natural driver that can explain the climate change, and even though the physical properties of CO2 are undeniable). Some of them are now moving on and arguing that climate change will be beneficial.

So you discredit those who read up on the subject and change their opinion? Really?
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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So you discredit those who read up on the subject and change their opinion? Really?

They're changing their opinions because it becomes harder and harder to argue for each previous position... Not because they're learning and expanding their knowledge. It's actually the opposite. They read very specific non-science sources that reinforce their wishes and beliefs.
 

shira

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Jan 12, 2005
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Just another article by a left wing environmentalist that claims to be able to tell you what conservatives think. It's a fail. He's making a good chunk of money preaching "it's the end of the world as we know it" and it's preaching, because Catastrophic Climate Disruption sure isn't based on science.

http://www.billmckibben.com/books.html

So I take it that a "principle" you adhere to is that no one should give credence to reportage by any writer who makes a profit on what they write.

Edit: Or is it the credibility of only left-wing writers that is compromised by the profit motive?
 
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werepossum

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Jul 10, 2006
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I fervently hope that my beliefs on MMCC are wrong, and that the death throes you refer to are those of the current consensus and not those of mankind.

You posit that mankind is powerful enough to inadvertently destroy an entire planet's ecosystem and yet not powerful enough to survive higher temperatures? Considering that mankind lives from the hottest tropics to damned near the arctic circle, that seems a bit, um, silly.
 

shira

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Jan 12, 2005
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You posit that mankind is powerful enough to inadvertently destroy an entire planet's ecosystem and yet not powerful enough to survive higher temperatures? Considering that mankind lives from the hottest tropics to damned near the arctic circle, that seems a bit, um, silly.
Not destroy the ENTIRE ecosystem - life will persist in one form or another on Earth until the sun goes red giant. But mankind is certainly capable of creating a climate far less hospitable to human welfare than we currently experience.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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The problem is the lack of consistent results quantifying the human contribution. I'd just like to get rid of our dependence on foreign energy suppliers
 

PJABBER

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Feb 8, 2001
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Not destroy the ENTIRE ecosystem - life will persist in one form or another on Earth until the sun goes red giant. But mankind is certainly capable of creating a climate far less hospitable to human welfare than we currently experience.

So on the one hand the lefties believe that reducing the human population is good (abortion, eugenics, population control) but on the other hand they want to make the ecosystem more conducive to human life.

On the other hand, your position is that the right values human life but wants that life lived in an ecosystem that threatens/endangers it.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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The problem is the lack of consistent results quantifying the human contribution. I'd just like to get rid of our dependence on foreign energy suppliers

Hayabusa, the amount of the human contribution is that amount of warming created by the greenhouse gases we have put into the atmosphere. That amount of warming is quantifiable because it's a physical property of those gases. You can measure it in a beaker in a lab.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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The victims of climate change aren't just humans. There has been and will be a lot of extinctions, especially since warming is combined with deforestation and pollution.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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The problem is the lack of consistent results quantifying the human contribution. I'd just like to get rid of our dependence on foreign energy suppliers

Agree totally. I'm still very skeptical about catastrophic anthropogenic global warming, but the sooner we can get off foreign oil and cut our CO2 emissions, the better. I just don't want to crash civilization to avoid, um, crashing civilization.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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So on the one hand the lefties believe that reducing the human population is good (abortion, eugenics, population control) but on the other hand they want to make the ecosystem more conducive to human life.

On the other hand, your position is that the right values human life but wants that life lived in an ecosystem that threatens/endangers it.

You are off your rocker.
 

Dekasa

Senior member
Mar 25, 2010
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I'm most DEFINITELY a lefty, and I don't support man-made climate change. So far, it appears there's far too much corruption in the science to make any real conclusions on it. I don't deny it's possible, and I'm not saying it's not happening; I'm saying we don't have credible information, certainly not enough credible information to institute things like Cap & Trade.