Why the mortgage bailout *might* not be so bad..

[Deleted member 4644]

I wish to withdraw my OP. Upon reflection, I have over estimated the number of scammers.

New Proposal. Kill the scammers?



I will admit I don't know the details of the plan, but, based on what I have read, it is a bailout that might even reduce the principal for homeowners.

Well, considering how *insanely* rich a lot of people have gotten off of tax subsidies, bank bailouts, and years of fleecing the stock market and housing market via complex derivatives and 100 other manipulations not available to most middle class people....

..maybe this bail out is fine, morally.

Maybe it's just payback.

and if it helps prevent a meltdown at the middle-bottom of our economy, that might help us all in the long run too.

 

[ProfJohn]

See... I didn't buy an $800,000 house because I am mature and responsible and only buy things that I know I can afford long term.

Sadly a lot of Americans did buy that house they couldn't afford long term. In normal times people who make bad decisions like that suffer for those decisions. But now the government is going to step in and save people from suffering the consequences of their own bad decisions. And what makes it worse is that people like me are the ones who are going to pay the bills.

I have no idea how you can justify this morally, unless your moral compass is all screwed up.

As it is nearly a third of government spending goes to social programs. Look at your tax bill this year and do the math and realize that a third of the money you sent to Washington is going to people who made mistakes in life and realize that you are helping to support those mistakes.

At what point does it stop?

 

[bbdub333]

Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644
I will admit I don't know the details of the plan, but, based on what I have read, it is a bailout that might even reduce the principal for homeowners.

Well, considering how *insanely* rich a lot of people have gotten off of tax subsidies, bank bailouts, and years of fleecing the stock market and housing market via complex derivatives and 100 other manipulations not available to most middle class people....

..maybe this bail out is fine, morally.

Maybe it's just payback.

and if it helps prevent a meltdown at the middle-bottom of our economy, that might help us all in the long run too.

So you are justifying it because instead of the rich getting money at the expense of the middle and lower class, the poor and/or stupid will get that money at the expense of the entire country?

In your mind, morality = stupidity?

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
See... I didn't buy an $800,000 house because I am mature and responsible and only buy things that I know I can afford long term.

Same problem here. What was I thinking, I could be driving a lambo right now and the govt. would pay for it.

Damn I screwed up.

 

[Drako]

Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

..maybe this bail out is fine, morally.

Maybe it's just payback.

LOL, morally it's OK? Payback?

90%+ of Americans do what is right, and buy what they can afford. So the 90% are morally obligated to pay for the 10% of retards? You've got a pretty sick sense of what morality is.

 

[StageLeft]

This may make sense if the world consisted entirely of people who scammed their way to being rich and the other people who got scammed but in truth it consists of the scammers, the scammed, and then the majority of everybody else who doesn't want to get screwed and does not deserve it.

The media has convinced some that everybody with a house is a month away from being foreclosed on. The fact is that most home owners are fine now and even if nothing is done they will remain fine and able to pay their mortgage and stay in their house.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

I wish to withdraw my OP. Upon reflection, I have over estimated the number of scammers.

New Proposal. Kill the scammers?

 

[Darthvoy]

You can blame a small part on the buyers because, really, they were duped and sometimes lied to by the real estate agents and brokers. The brokers and agents fooled people into believing they could afford an 800,000 house because of the new types financing made available by the Wall Street investment banks. I am sure if borrowers had seen what the actual payments on an 800,000 loan would be under conventional terms, they would not have bought the house in the first place. When you have teaser rates of 1% and negative amortization loans, an 800,000 loan seems affordable- at least initially. Also, everyone expected home values to continue to rise, which was another problem. But, yes some buyers made the mistake of believing everything the brokers told them and not reading the contracts, but then again, I have heard a lot of cases where signatures where forged. Rampant greed and practically no regulation is what caused this mess.

I think the 75 billion dollars Obama is proposing will really help the economy...I fail to see why it wasn't included in the $787 billion stimulus signed earlier this week. I thought that was the whole point.

 

[Crucial]

WTF is there to not understand and be duped by? You borrow a lot of money and you have to pay it back over so many years. There's no magic involved.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
See... I didn't buy an $800,000 house because I am mature and responsible and only buy things that I know I can afford long term.

Same problem here. What was I thinking, I could be driving a lambo right now and the govt. would pay for it.

Damn I screwed up.

Yep, I've been beating myself up over the fact that I don't owe any money on my house. How can I default and get the dumb taxpayer to pay my loan? Guess I am dumber than them.

 

[da loser]

i don't see what's so sad about these homebuyers being forced out into apartments.

they've gotten to live in houses well above their means for a cheap sum. so what's the big deal with forcing them out?

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: da loser
i don't see what's so sad about these homebuyers being forced out into apartments.

they've gotten to live in houses well above their means for a cheap sum. so what's the big deal with forcing them out?

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Its simply why the argument of the da loser loses.

We are dealing with this weird situation, its OK to victimize the poor but we must bail out the rich who are also equally to blame.

When bottom line, everyone, EVERYONE, loses when a mortgage goes into default. Now to add insult to injury, so many mortgages are now in default, which has resulted in a very real reduction of the paper price of homes.

Which now means that a house that used to be valued at $200,000 can't be resold at $200,000, it now only commands a price of $125,000. Bottom line, lender loses $75,000
off the bat. Then better yet, they are on the hook to heat the house during winter, don't heat the house, pipes freeze, and now its going to cost another $25,000 to repair the plumbing while the house sits unsold while the lender keeps losing and losing, and losing more money.

Meanwhile the dumb borrower can do something smart for once in their lives, merely walk away, take bankruptcy, and start fresh.

Now grow a brain, and realize the most cost effective solution may be to keep the borrower in the home, because all other alternatives are far worse for all concerned.

Meanwhile, Lemon Law the responsible, who did not buy a house beyond his means and now has paid off his mortgage, sees the paper value of his house decline, and worse yet,
may see his property taxes increase, because so many other higher priced homes can't be taxed because we may have to take them off the tax rolls to get through this crisis.

Like a venereal disease, this is a gift that keeps giving and giving.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
See... I didn't buy an $800,000 house because I am mature and responsible and only buy things that I know I can afford long term.

Sadly a lot of Americans did buy that house they couldn't afford long term. In normal times people who make bad decisions like that suffer for those decisions. But now the government is going to step in and save people from suffering the consequences of their own bad decisions. And what makes it worse is that people like me are the ones who are going to pay the bills.

I have no idea how you can justify this morally, unless your moral compass is all screwed up.

As it is nearly a third of government spending goes to social programs. Look at your tax bill this year and do the math and realize that a third of the money you sent to Washington is going to people who made mistakes in life and realize that you are helping to support those mistakes.

At what point does it stop?

I agree, I heard a story the other day of a school bus driver who was facing forclosure on her 800K house...

My wife and I could have purchased something alot more expensive when we were approved for our mortgage but instead we opted for something that we could afford and still be somewhat comfortable...amazing how people love to just live way beyond their means, and sad that the govt/taxpayers will just cover them.

I have even heard of some people getting ahead because of creative mortgage deals and their filing bankruptcy...

I also don't know what kind of shady brokers people were working with to get scammed as some suggest they did, I would wonder how many truly got taken for a ride vs are now saying they did because they didn't expect the market to take a dive.

The people who made the bad decisions need to be the ones who pay for those mistakes...sadly it seems as if those who are responsible are the ones footing this bill.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
See... I didn't buy an $800,000 house because I am mature and responsible and only buy things that I know I can afford long term.

Sadly a lot of Americans did buy that house they couldn't afford long term. In normal times people who make bad decisions like that suffer for those decisions. But now the government is going to step in and save people from suffering the consequences of their own bad decisions. And what makes it worse is that people like me are the ones who are going to pay the bills.

I have no idea how you can justify this morally, unless your moral compass is all screwed up.

As it is nearly a third of government spending goes to social programs. Look at your tax bill this year and do the math and realize that a third of the money you sent to Washington is going to people who made mistakes in life and realize that you are helping to support those mistakes.

At what point does it stop?

You are aware that Fannie/Freddie loan limits never exceeded $417k (except temporarily last year under a mandate from the Bush admin), right? And that the mortgage bailout being presented at this time only applies to Fannie/Freddie loans? So if someone bought an $800k house they couldn't afford, they're not getting bailed out by this?

So, basically, you just told us all (again) that you're an uneducated idiot speaking out your ass about things you know nothing about.

Let's also keep in mind that you were one of the asshats a few years ago who said that the housing market would never fail and that to believe so was somehow un-American.

So I have no idea how you can justify your ignorance morally, unless your moral compass is all screwed up.

At what point can we expect that to stop?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: bozack
I agree, I heard a story the other day of a school bus driver who was facing forclosure on her 800K house...

That bus driver is getting foreclosed, and that bill was footed by the Wall Street bailout passed months ago and signed by Bush.
In the meantime, the subprime lender who foolishly made that loan (which Wall Street foolishly bought), has torched that bus driver's credit in the worst way possible, and post-foreclosure has slapped a deficiency judgment on them to boot. So if you think getting calls from collectors for the next 10 or more years wanting hundreds of thousands is some kind of blessing.... well...