Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: Wheezer
Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: Wheezer
Life ain't fair...get over it.
Just because life isn't fair doesn't mean you have to dismiss fairness as an unnecessary luxury. I don't think that fairness is what all this is about. The point of the article is that the cost of bailing out the American auto industry is a lot less than the price of letting it collapse. Did you read it?
so we bail them out...ok what happens next?
the UAW and execs have jobs but how long can that be sustained when the rest of the country does not have enough money to purchase their cars?
sure, they can continue to make cars, but what then?
The 700 billion dollar bailout is not going as planned, and the big three have had YEARS to pull their heeds out of their asses to make themselves more profitable.....but apparently they have not been able to run their businesses in such a way that when an economic downturn hits and people cannot afford their goods they are ready to fold like a house of cards...what company of that size runs their business built on that principal? if they can't
take a small hit like what is going on now then perhaps they should fold so someone else can take a shot....what makes you thing that a 35 billion dollar bailout is going to cure all their problems...it won't....it will just prolong the inevitable....they have not changed their ways yet, and just handing over money when they cry is not going to force them to change.
first bailout should never have happened then the subject of what's "fair" would not even be an issue.
You're making lots of assumptions and clearly you are against helping the auto industry and searching for justifications for your position. Your case brings nothing to the discussion. T
he small hit you speak of is the worst depression in the USA since the 1930's. The auto industry by virtue of its very nature can't be as nimble as most businesses. There's a tremendous amount of momentum preventing quick shifts in production capabilities, policies, strategies and myriad associations with a wide range of interests.
They focused on SUV's because they were proving to be the most profitable. When the price of oil more than quadrupled in around 3 years they were broadsided. There's plenty of jockeying going on right now on Capital Hill as folks are trying to figure out how to make the auto industry responsive to pressures to reform, make necessary changes. We'll see how this plays out, but pulling the plug on them as you would do is callous and shortsighted. Like the linked article in the OP says, the presidents men (i.e. Henry Paulson) are more than eager to dish out the big bucks to the financiers. That's where he came from and where he's going after January 20th. Bailing out the blue collar sector to a tune of 1/30th what they just approved for the financial sector is crossing the line?
This is NOT a depression. When you learn to grasp that concept you will be on your way to understanding the situation we are in.
#1 The Big three had many, many years of economic experience to study from.
You bring up the price of oil..lets go with that.
Remember back in the late 70's and 80's (or if you are not old enough perhaps you read about it) when OPEC decided they did not want to sell us oil?
Well the price of fuel skyrocketed.
Based on what you say, the got "broadsided" which means they never planned for anything like that to happen again...which means they NEVER fathomed that the price of gas would go up as it did ...again....which means they had piss poor planning...which means that they continued to pump out SUV's because that was the most profitable...which means they thought with their wallet for the here and the now....not what would be coming down the pike....which means they suck at business planning and reading the market.
I would "think" that they perhaps would have ties to SOMEONE in the oil business that would let them know...."hey this is where we are headed...you might want to rethink your whole SUV concept."
so either
A) they have no one in the oil business who can help the see the possible future or no one working for them that is capable to read the market and understand that when a hurricane hits the Gulf and decimates the oil platforms that gas will go up.
B) they took that information and said fuck it....people want SUVs, and SUVs make us money so we'll give them SUVs and worry about the price of gas later.
either way it is poor business on their part.
#2 lets pretend this is a depression....have we not been here before?
Don't you think that a business such a the giant GM is should have some sort of business fall back plan for such a situation?
They had soo many irons in the fire they lost track how to build a quality vehicle.
from their GM banking, to all the foreign cars they were building around the world.
They forgot to focus on what was going on here at home. and by the time they decided to focus on the writing on the wall....it was too late.
That is not how you run a multi-billion dollar business.
and why are they going to the us government?
where are all their profits?
are they all gone?
have they burned through that resource BEFORE going to beg for more?
have they exhausted all possibilities?
Sold off their investments that are dragging them down and using that money to try and keep them afloat?
Or do they just want to be going along the same old same old get the 35 billion and keep doing business as usual with someone else's money?
Until they have exhausted all other avenues and trimmed the fat as much as they can they should not get a dime, doing so would show that they are willing to change what has brought them down in the first place.
Driving from Detroit to D.C. in a hybrid is not proving anything.
having t a CEO work for $1 means nothing....if he is that damn good at what he does to earn millions and millions in the first place....would you not think that at least he would be able to stand up way before this and say "there looks to be trouble brewing on the horizon...let's rethink how we operate for the time being so we don't get hammered and have to go beg for money"
he did not, so obviously he (they) suck at what they do and did not deserve much more than $1 in the first place.
EDIT let me also say that while they were here trying to come up with the next best gas guzzling pick-up or SUV they were in Brazil developing an alternative engine type that will run on more than just gas.
That's right....all those pretty new cars you see with "FlexFuel" tags on the back that make is seem so eco-friendly...was developed at the behest of the Brazilian government..why?
Because they were smart enough after the embargo of the 70's NOT to get caught with their pants down again and be at the mercy of oil, and the countries that produce it.....GM helped them develop the flex fuel motor that will run on sugar cane.
When you ask GM why they did not do something similar here they will tell you "that's not what the American people wanted"...well how the hell would you know if you never attempted to try and sell it here in the first fucking place?
They made their own bed...let them lie in it.
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