Why Tax Breaks For The Rich Are Important....To Them!

[403Forbidden]

Taxes are inevitable...

the most you can ever hope for is that your elected representatives
will appropriate them according to public's general wishes.

 

[JellyBaby]

It's obvious some of us are living an empty shell of a life. I'm not giving up hope just yet! Rather than having a defeatist attitude, I prefer to fight the good fight.

 

[Corn]

Red bent over and shouted:



<< With your obvious lack of fiscal responsibility you'd surely run any Company, small or large, into the ground. >>



Interesting, let's examine Dirk's entire quote shall we?



<< Bush will give me back 2-1/2 days of my life's work which, while not a ton of money, will buy my next video card or take me to the movies 20 times with my girlfriend or I can invest in a mutual fund...WHATEVER I, ME, MYSELF WANT TO DO WITH IT >>



Red would you care to explain why you did not include the &quot;or I can invest in a mutual fund&quot; in your example of Dirk's fiscal irresponsibility? You talk out of both sides of your mouth and are no better than the politicians that you claim you despise so much. You speak of &quot;responsibility&quot; and manage to blow all credibility in the same breath. I can't remember the thread, and you certainly are not worth the effort to post the link, but I remember you saying that your &quot;integrity&quot; forbids you from voting for either of the two party candidates; Your &quot;integrity&quot; is actually on par with what's expected from said politicians.

Dirk may be &quot;fiscally irresponsible&quot; if he buys a video card with his own money, but at least he is honest, too bad the same cannot be said of yourself.

Have a nice day!

Corn.

 

[DirkBelig]

Red Dawn you ignorant slut...

You say I'm a fool for wanting MY MONEY back instead of paying down the debt, YOU are the asswipe if you believe that Gore will pay down the debt! He's proposing so much &quot;free&quot; goodies to the old and anyone else willing to rework their entire lives to match his demands that there will be NO MONEY LEFT FOR THE DEBT!!!!

The &quot;surplus&quot; (a scam in it's own right) is nothing more than to much money confiscated from the people who earned it. Right now, it's money that wasn't earmarked for some government program. It's just sitting there. What the liberal statists want to do is create a whole bunch of new love-buying programs and entitlements that will siphon up all of that money and require that the workers have to cough up ever larger amounts of their lives to fuel the beast. When they say, &quot;We can't afford tax cuts.&quot;, what they MEAN is, &quot;We have plans for your money so we need you to send it in.&quot;

If EVERYONE was allowed to take what is being raped from them in the Ponzi scheme that is Social Security and invest it in safe, sane IRAs and 401(k)s, they would be able to provide for THEMSELVES instead of crawling to government for some cheese and a pat on the head. Liberals entire existance is to addict as many people as possible to the government smack and then frighten them into voting to maintain the supply.

I'm evil because I want to go to the movies? Hey, Bub, the kids selling me tickets and popcorn and sweeping up the joint afterwards have JOBS because I have the money to go out. Take my money, the there is no need to go out and thus no need for place to go and thus no need to hire anyone to work in the places not built. Get it?! Robbing me robs EVERYONE who I may want to purchase goods and services from.

I've heard Clinton say that tax cuts are bad because &quot;People will just go and spend the money on what they want.&quot;:Q:Q:Q:Q WHO THE HELL'S BUSINESS IS IT WHAT I WANT TO DO WITH WHAT I EARNED?!?!?!?!? The FREE MARKET is what creates prosperity. Robbing Peter of a dollar to give Paul a quarter is NOT the way to a better tomorrow.

I got a call from an ex-girlfriend about a year ago that I hadn't spoken to in about 7 years. Back then, she was working in a Dunkin Donuts and her brother did odd landscaping work. In the ensuing years, she wound up working for a florist who, when she retired, sold her the two stores. Now, she's working harder than ever because not only is she responsible for herself, but the livelihoods of her employees. YOU would say she's Candidate Numero Uno for some Redistributive Tax Justice, huh? Her brother started a brick paver business and now lives in a $250,000 house with his wife and kid. He WAS living in a tiny, sleazy rental trailer in a less-then-spiffy trailer park.

These are two people who you claim can't exist. America WAS the Land of Opportunity where hard-work and risk-taking could reap great rewards. Bill Gates (the most EVIL man alive) has created so many jobs in the IT sector through his company that it's a shame that he's demonized so much. Yeah, he's been a bad actor in many ways, BUT, you can't deny the POSITIVE impact he's had on our economy. I assume YOU work for someone. If life was the way you wanted it to be, he wouldn't have the money to hire you! Where would you be then?

As for me: 3-1/2 years ago I was delivering flowers for $6/hr. and not sure what to do with my life. I bought a computer and started to learn. Then I got another one and started upgrading it and in the process learning more. One day, 16 months ago, I got off my lazy butt and applied for a job with an IT company. I knew so much that I was able to leapfrog 2 years down the career track to the job I have now. I just got a $3K raise a couple of weeks ago. I have my first new car lease, I have health insurance once again, I have FIVE credit cards which are gonna be paid off in a couple of months (only a couple have balances, I keep getting lower rates) and my long-term girlfriend and I are making noises about settling down. With more training, I could jump into the $50-$60K bracket in acouple of years. I would go from less than $13,000 to FOUR TIMES as much in FIVE YEARS. While Clinton and Gore like to claim credit for the economy and all these jobs, take my word for it, just like Cheney said, THE GOVERNMENT HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!

If I'm going to be punished for my ambition, how is that fair? Not eight years ago, my ex and her brother and I were all &quot;Clerks&quot;-type wage slaves, but look where we are and look what's possible.

Conservatives want EVERYONE TO BECOME RICHER. Liberals can only offer and promise a certain standard of MISERY to everyone. See the Soviet Union for the results of your ideas.

You don't understand what works. That's why you follow the envy merchants and hate anyone who wants more. So sad.

 

[jamesglewisf]

I used the Quicken Turbotax Tax Estimator. Both income levels were for married filing jointly with one dependent and no itemized deductions. The person paid $40,000 pays $3,638 in taxes (about 9.10%). The person paid $300,000 pays $88,092 in taxes (about 29.36%). If you lowered them both by 9.10%, the person at $40K pays no taxes while the person at 300K still pays $60,792 in taxes. So, who got the bigger tax break? Of course the 300K family did, but the 40K family is paying no taxes at all.

BTW, change the $40,000 income to $75,000 and what do you get? $10,800 in taxes (about 14.4%). Drop both tax rates by 14.4%, and 75K family pays nothing in taxes while 300K family still pays $44,892 in taxes.

I forgot the best part of the examples. Sample soundbites from the 75/300 two-person example:

Soundbite: Lewis' tax cut proposal gives 80% of of the tax cuts to the wealthy.
Facts: 75k saves $10,800. 300k saves $43,200. Total savings of $54,000. 75k got 20% of the $54,000 in tax cut. 300k got 80% of it. Soundbite is factual.
Fairness: Totally unfair. 75k no longer pays any taxes, and 300k still pays $44,892 in taxes; but I still look like a jerk.

Soundbite: Under the Lewis' tax cut proposal, the wealthy get a tax cut that is four times the size of the middle class.
Facts: 75k saves $10,800. 300k saves $43,200. $10,800 times 4 equals $43,200. Soundbite is factual.
Fairness: Totally unfair. 75k no longer pays any taxes, and 300k still pays $44,892 in taxes; but I still look like a jerk.

Do you see how easy it is to twist the facts using statistics?

Tax cuts can be across the board and still be fair.

 

[DirkBelig]

Well, the saying goes, &quot;There are lies, damn lies and statistics.&quot;

 

[jobert]

Cheeeeeze

Boys and girls, PLEASE.

Can we at least agree on one little thing?

Reducing a person's income tax is NOT
the equivalent of giving him something.
We are simply taking a little less from him
in future years.

And while we're at it, maybe we should
try to answer this basic question:
WHO'S MONEY IS IT IN THE U.S TREASURY?

 

[nateholtrop]

being rich is cool. but being poor sucks.

&quot;being poor sucks&quot;
Fry-

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

no tax cuts for people who don't need them.

 

[DirkBelig]

And how do YOU define need?!? Anyone with more money then you?

A middle-aged couple with a house and kids in college needs a LOT of money. Sounds like you hate people with more than you so much that you'd sacrifice them on the altar of your envy.

BEAT IT COMMIE BOY!

 

[chess9]

Gentlemen:

First of all, I am retired for the most part. I have a little company that does some computer work, but I am only 18 months from being able to draw from my private pension (59.5).

Secondly, adjusted for inflation, I might have earned more in my 45 years of employment than the combined averages of ten of you. I don't really care about money any more. I'm over getting a $2500 promised tax refund for my vote. I've spent that on golf in one day. I've been a complete idiot about money in the past, and, like a reformed alcoholic, have stopped worshipping it.

I am worried about our 75 year old (+ or - a few years) progressive tax system continuing to be fair to those whose daddies couldn't get them into Yale. (I hear lots of complaints about affirmative action for the poor, but none about affirmative action for the rich. Do you folks think Bush was valedictorian of his high school class, got a 4.0 in all AP classes, and &quot;stuffed&quot; the SAT? Right, and I'm Clark Gable. We have 1000 high school kids on this board who are smarter than Bush. Paulson is Einstein compared to Bush.) Lots of people inherited their wealth, got lucky, or stole their way to the top. Furthermore, many, many people don't measure their success by money. How many college professors would we have if money was the sole measure of worth? How many research doctors, mathematicians, physicists, judges, nurses, school teachers, firemen, policemen, and military personnel? NONE. Money is and should be an eensie teensie part of life. Some of you seem to have a lot of emotional baggage locked up into this money schtick. You are victims of our throwaway, consumer oriented culture. Go to almost any foreign country, particularly Africa, South America, and much of Asia and you will see the difference. America is a great country, but its biggest weakness is its focus on the almighty dollar. I'm over it.

Follow the advice of St.Francis of Assisi-help the poor and lead a simple life.

 

[Orbius]

Instead of getting a small tax cut(a big ass one if you're rich, yeah real fair there), as the Bush plan proposes. What this country needs is to again make the Corporations work for the people instead of letting them run around like self-interested 2 yr olds. Did you know that last year Cisco and Microsoft paid absolutely no Federal Taxes last year??? I dont know about you, but I paid Federal Taxes and I dont make anything in comparison!

Look we need some common sense guidelines for corporations, giving away public land and giving them tax abatements is just not fair! So why are we afraid of the Government making rulings that puts the public interest first?

Look unless we want to be like Ben Hurr in a corporate slave-ship we need to seriously start thinking about which candidate is more likely to put people first and make corporations be good citizens instead of spoiled brats. Gore isn't my favorite guy in the world, but he's a lot more likely to do something in this area than Bush is! A vote for Bush is a vote for letting big business run rampant.

 

[Napalm381]

<< Lots of people inherited their wealth, got lucky, or stole their way to the top. >>

And many more EARNED their way to the top by being smart with their money and saving/investing it instead of blowing it on consumption (like, say, $2500 on a day of golf )



<< progressive tax system continuing to be fair >>

You are in favor of an unfair tax system? I find that to be a very odd stand.



<< Furthermore, many, many people don't measure their success by money. >>

But I think it is safe to say most do. Money is still the most powerful motivator in a society. If you value moral incentives over material ones, fine. But don't force me to have the same values as you. That's one of the strengths of our economic system- both moral and material incentives exist. A system in which moral incentives are heavily favored over material ones is a system doomed to failure.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

kiss my ass, dirk. I just said what I think.

WTF is up with the commie remark? If someone makes MILLIONS of dollars a year, they don't need tax breaks.
If a man and woman raise a reasonable amount of children and are having trouble keeping them in school (not college, that's not the society standard), they deserve a tax break.

good god... care to give my head back now??

 

[Ornery]

Lordy, thanks for starting this topic chess9. Otherwise I never would have read the awesome posts from DirkBelig. They just hit the nail square on the head. The rebuttals to those posts pretty much stunk up the place. Phew :disgust: Facts really don't sit well with the left side of the isle. Why is that?

 

[Russ]

Orbius,



<< What this country needs is to again make the Corporations work for the people >>



Again work for the &quot;people&quot;? What econ class did you flunk out of? Companies have NEVER existed to work for the &quot;people&quot;. They exist to reward those who risked their capital by investing in the business; always have.



<< Did you know that last year Cisco and Microsoft paid absolutely no Federal Taxes last year??? >>



Bwuahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! Good one. I don't think even the liberals will buy that.

Russ, NCNE

 

[chess9]

Napalm:

Quite a few people have done well earning their way to the top. A small number of people have successfully invested their way to the top. No one in America has SAVED their way to the top.

I have no problem with people who place more value on money than me, except when they try their darndest to keep the little people under their heel. Most wealthy individuals and corporations do just that. In fact, most of you pining away for the joys of this enormous tax cut ARE the little people. It is truly ironic because the extent of your brainwashing is self-evident. You hate yourselves so much you want to make sure Daddy Warbucks gets his, yours and mine.

You think the progressive tax system is unfair. But hundreds of Republican Congressman, Presidents, and State politicians have thought otherwise for a long time. If you aren't interested in getting elected, support a flat tax. If you'd like to see revolution in the streets impose an onerous flat tax that fails to raise enough revenue to support social programs that give the poor hope. Or do you think they derive hope from the certain knowledge that legacy admissions at toney universities are benefitting the rich and powerful? Red rightly calls you guys MYOPIC. He's right. Taxation IS social policy. A radical change in governmental social policies will radically change the culture...for the worse.

If you want to worship money, go right ahead. Don't expect me to vote for your crazy fiscal schemes.

Dirk: Quite calling people commies. I've disagreed with FullofCobalt more times than you've posted and I've never called him something as low as a commie. You owe him an apology.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Damn, DirkBelig just laid it all out! I don't see how any sane person could argue with what he said. It makes 100% perfect sense.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

hmm... 3% flat tax.


simple enough?

 

[PistachioByAzul]

I have no problem with people who place more value on money than me, except when they try their darndest to keep the little people under their heel. Most wealthy individuals and corporations do just that.

Lets look at Bill Gates, richest man in the world. What has he done with Microsoft? Created thousands of jobs. What do Microsofts products do? They increase productivity for businesses, among other things. This helps businesses grow, which in turn creates even more jobs. Greed is human nature. Communism tries to supress it, Capitalism utilizes it. If you work hard you will make it!


In fact, most of you pining away for the joys of this enormous tax cut ARE the little people.

Yeah, it's called having ambition.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Bill is not the richest man in the world. That's what you get if your scope on life is as limited as believing everything the US media says and not researching anything for yourself. There's some guy in the middle east (I wish I could remember his name). He's an arms dealer and terrorist. Bill ain't got the balls to compare his bank account with this guy's.




Communism only works in a perfect environment. Being human, we spoil it.

 

[Orbius]

Ok Russ just for your semantic driven brain I'll clarify, The inherently self-interested corporations activities should be curbed when they interfere with the rights of the people. Don't bother trying to nullify the argument because of semantics or wordage, you get the point and if you don't you're a moron.

Also heres some linkage for you to chew on. Cisco Tax Article

 

[Pastfinder]

What do you expect from the Republican Party.

 

[Russ]

<< The inherently self-interested corporations activities should be curbed when they interfere with the rights of the people. >>



Orbius,

Typical &quot;feeling&quot; reaction, instead of thinking. Without corporations, &quot;people&quot; would certainly have fewer rights; like the right to eat; the right to shelter; the right to pay for their kids education; the right to survive. Again, a company is under NO obligation whatsoever to look out for &quot;people&quot;.

They are under an obligation to produce a profit. If they don't, then those people you're so concerned with will have a hell of a lot more to worry about then whether or not that corporation is &quot;interfering&quot; with anything.

Nice article. Sad, that you bought it. Both Microsoft and Cisco still paid BILLIONS to Federal Piggy last year. Income is not all that is taxed. Again, what econ class did you flunk?

Russ, NCNE

 

[Ornery]

Har, so Red &amp; chess9 aren't moochers, I'd say I agree with 99.5% of the balance of Dirk's posts!

Damn, I wish I could string even two coherent thoughts together in a single post