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Why politics may not offer anything real...

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Recent research tends to indicate that people are born with an innate sense of ethics, preferring altruistic acts over selfish ones, but also perhaps sadly, similarity over difference. The work of humanity, therefore, will be to see others, the other, as similar rather than different. Politics emphasizes just the things that divide us. But research also shows that the world is getting better, that world wide people are evolving, that there is an incipient understanding taking place, that all humanity is the same. If we evolve our thinking and fundamental perceptions along these lines, rather than focusing on our differences, we may survive. Knowing that a good 85% of the population show an innate ethical sense at two years of age should help. Nobody at age two has a political affiliation. Maybe we shouldn't either.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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As someone who views partisanship as being innately flawed i'd agree. If after due consideration one feels a specific party has their ideals and supports individual efforts as proper then that is reasonable to support their efforts. If however, the party becomes what drives ones perceptions and their answer is automatically correct then thats a pathological situation. Sadly that's what I think is happening.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,897
638
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Recent research tends to indicate that people are born with an innate sense of ethics, preferring altruistic acts over selfish ones, but also perhaps sadly, similarity over difference. The work of humanity, therefore, will be to see others, the other, as similar rather than different. Politics emphasizes just the things that divide us. But research also shows that the world is getting better, that world wide people are evolving, that there is an incipient understanding taking place, that all humanity is the same. If we evolve our thinking and fundamental perceptions along these lines, rather than focusing on our differences, we may survive. Knowing that a good 85% of the population show an innate ethical sense at two years of age should help. Nobody at age two has a political affiliation. Maybe we shouldn't either.
So lead by example. You're as highly partisan as anyone here. You present this as data to be contemplated upon but anyone that knows you well here is aware that you have just greatly toned down the usual lecture. Are you speaking to all of us or to yourself in hopes that you'll change your ways? Or, are you telling us that you'll change if the rest of us do too? Because if that's the case, it won't work. You don't have the patience for it.

Rodney King tried this. It didn't work.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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As someone who views partisanship as being innately flawed i'd agree. If after due consideration one feels a specific party has their ideals and supports individual efforts as proper then that is reasonable to support their efforts. If however, the party becomes what drives ones perceptions and their answer is automatically correct then thats a pathological situation. Sadly that's what I think is happening.
Indeed. I was just talking about this with my sons (adult) last night, that blind party loyalty is destructive. One need only look at American politics to see ample evidence of this.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,321
2
0
So lead by example. You're as highly partisan as anyone here. You present this as data to be contemplated upon but anyone that knows you well here is aware that you have just greatly toned down the usual lecture. Are you speaking to all of us or to yourself in hopes that you'll change your ways? Or, are you telling us that you'll change if the rest of us do too? Because if that's the case, it won't work. You don't have the patience for it.

Rodney King tried this. It didn't work.
Well this is a step in the right direction Moony
 

Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,185
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106
Recent research tends to indicate that people are born with an innate sense of ethics, preferring altruistic acts over selfish ones, but also perhaps sadly, similarity over difference. The work of humanity, therefore, will be to see others, the other, as similar rather than different. Politics emphasizes just the things that divide us. But research also shows that the world is getting better, that world wide people are evolving, that there is an incipient understanding taking place, that all humanity is the same. If we evolve our thinking and fundamental perceptions along these lines, rather than focusing on our differences, we may survive. Knowing that a good 85% of the population show an innate ethical sense at two years of age should help. Nobody at age two has a political affiliation. Maybe we shouldn't either.
Then you shouldnt vote for obama, he wants to keep us divided.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,935
2,332
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Recent research tends to indicate that people are born with an innate sense of ethics, preferring altruistic acts over selfish ones, but also perhaps sadly, similarity over difference. The work of humanity, therefore, will be to see others, the other, as similar rather than different. Politics emphasizes just the things that divide us. But research also shows that the world is getting better, that world wide people are evolving, that there is an incipient understanding taking place, that all humanity is the same. If we evolve our thinking and fundamental perceptions along these lines, rather than focusing on our differences, we may survive. Knowing that a good 85% of the population show an innate ethical sense at two years of age should help. Nobody at age two has a political affiliation. Maybe we shouldn't either.
Doesn't all that depend on point of view? Doesn't politics bring together like minded people under a common banner? Everyone enjoys the vindication they get from knowing their views are shared by others, the problems start when that vindication becomes a team mentality. This is the fundamental flaw in all democracy's, and it stems from the belief that a thousand people can make better decisions than one. It doesn't work that way. You can't increase a sum by adding zeros.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
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Indeed. I was just talking about this with my sons (adult) last night, that blind party loyalty is destructive. One need only look at American politics to see ample evidence of this.
QFT. Neither party is wholly right or wholly wrong. Hell, it often seems like neither party is even mostly right. If only people could be more like me . . . ;)

Welcome back, Moonie. I've missed your unique perspective the last month.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,478
0
0
Recent research tends to indicate that people are born with an innate sense of ethics, preferring altruistic acts over selfish ones, but also perhaps sadly, similarity over difference. The work of humanity, therefore, will be to see others, the other, as similar rather than different. Politics emphasizes just the things that divide us. But research also shows that the world is getting better, that world wide people are evolving, that there is an incipient understanding taking place, that all humanity is the same. If we evolve our thinking and fundamental perceptions along these lines, rather than focusing on our differences, we may survive. Knowing that a good 85% of the population show an innate ethical sense at two years of age should help. Nobody at age two has a political affiliation. Maybe we shouldn't either.
we should choose happiness over money and freedom over power, but alas. we don't
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,732
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Greenman: Doesn't all that depend on point of view? Doesn't politics bring together like minded people under a common banner?

M: The issue I see is why and in what manner. What if your like minded people are people of wealth and power who come together to maintain that status quo through brainwashing others to vote against their own real interests? This would violate natural human decency and lead to a corrupt system.

G: Everyone enjoys the vindication they get from knowing their views are shared by others, the problems start when that vindication becomes a team mentality.

M: The problem, as I see it, is that folk who do the right thing don't need vindication. Virtue is it's own and only reward, but what a reward.

G: This is the fundamental flaw in all democracy's, and it stems from the belief that a thousand people can make better decisions than one. It doesn't work that way. You can't increase a sum by adding zeros.

M: Of course you can. I like dollar amounts that add many zeros behind the one. The idea behind democracy is that, because most people are ethical, a majority vote among folk who vote ethically, will be a win for most people. Political parties seek power and influence for a few by persuading people they should vote against their own inborn ethics. We create a cruel competitive system and it creates fear that others will win and we will lose. We vote for ourselves and against other people, but we are all the same so we vote against ourselves. When there is oppression the bird dies in the nest.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,732
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QFT. Neither party is wholly right or wholly wrong. Hell, it often seems like neither party is even mostly right. If only people could be more like me . . . ;)

Welcome back, Moonie. I've missed your unique perspective the last month.
Thank you. I am having issues with where unique to some become off topic to others. As in this thread, it isn't the politics or the topics that matter to me, but, in my opinion, how and why we become attached to them.

I am reminded of the story of the Horrible Dib Dib: One night Mulla Nasrudin lay awake in his bead moaning and moaning about how he was being tormented by the Horrible Dib Dib, just as some thieves who had broken into his house approached his bed room. Hearing the terror and lament and suffering the Mulla was experiencing at the hands of this vial evil what gripped him, the thieves became terrified themselves and fled. This is just the sort of effect an obsession with a dripping bathroom faucet can have in a thin metal sink and if the Mulla had started a thread on the horrors of the Dib Dib, telling him to fix the leak would be unwelcomely off topic.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Recent research tends to indicate that people are born with an innate sense of ethics, preferring altruistic acts over selfish ones, but also perhaps sadly, similarity over difference. The work of humanity, therefore, will be to see others, the other, as similar rather than different. Politics emphasizes just the things that divide us. But research also shows that the world is getting better, that world wide people are evolving, that there is an incipient understanding taking place, that all humanity is the same. If we evolve our thinking and fundamental perceptions along these lines, rather than focusing on our differences, we may survive. Knowing that a good 85% of the population show an innate ethical sense at two years of age should help. Nobody at age two has a political affiliation. Maybe we shouldn't either.



So if I open a door and allow a hot chick to enter first before me at a store I'm I being altruistic or acting with self-interest in mind?

What if I own a business and I lower my prices to compete against a rival business? I'm I being altruistic or selfish?

What if I have lay off one employee in order to keep two? Again I'm I being altruistic or selfish?

It is very easy to make so many bold black and white suppositions on human behavior without having to provide any evidence.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,732
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This. I think it was Thomas Jefferson or John Adams who warned us early in our nation's history that the death of America would be political parties.
It is bigger than parties. It is the pull of us over them, the preference of folk who like and identify with the things we do, seeing how we differ over how we are the same, making an issue over differences that really don't matter much and not seeing huge commonality of our inner goodness and things that really matter. But our consciousness as a species is increasing. We are getting smarter. There's a thread on the changing demographics of the South and posts there by Southerners who don't feel like their elders.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,732
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So if I open a door and allow a hot chick to enter first before me at a store I'm I being altruistic or acting with self-interest in mind?

What if I own a business and I lower my prices to compete against a rival business? I'm I being altruistic or selfish?

What if I have lay off one employee in order to keep two? Again I'm I being altruistic or selfish?

It is very easy to make so many bold black and white suppositions on human behavior without having to provide any evidence.
You can do the research. I already did. I didn't feel any need to prove what I said because I am convinced of its validity already. If you don't agree, that's fine by me. I am saying only that politics is division which is retrograde and destructive whereas hope lies in seeing that ones own internal morality is quite universal.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,732
3,553
126
So lead by example. You're as highly partisan as anyone here. You present this as data to be contemplated upon but anyone that knows you well here is aware that you have just greatly toned down the usual lecture. Are you speaking to all of us or to yourself in hopes that you'll change your ways? Or, are you telling us that you'll change if the rest of us do too? Because if that's the case, it won't work. You don't have the patience for it.

Rodney King tried this. It didn't work.
I have known for years and years and years that people hate themselves and don't want to know it. Because of this there is no hope. The nature of self hate is to hate hope. I have hope because I know that the reasons we hate ourselves are lies even though I have no hope anybody will believe it. And I don't really and truly believe it myself. That's how self hate is. You can't easily get rid of it, but you can know in your mind that what you feel is sick.

So extrapolate: Which party includes all people and which one is restricted to the 'real' Americans, the dregs of white trash? Hehe, I'm tolerant to a fault, obviously, but I'm not blind. I feel the same way about Nazis. I know they are good people who have become mentally ill but I would have to fight them to keep them from coming to power. You don't want insane people controlling things. It's not partisanship, it's being able to see. But you know this.
 
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