Why not the 6800N over the X800 XL?

[Demoth]

Most people seem to be saying the X800 XL is the best price/performance card right now and are recommending this card even to overclockers. However, the 6800N sells for $241 versus $285 for the X800 XL (on New Egg) and by all accounts the 6800 is a guarenteed bet to unlock 16 pipes and 6 vertex shaders using riva tuner. In effect, anyone who spends a few minutes with a 6800N can have a much faster card then the X800 XL, equivalent to a 6800 GT. Plus many people seem to be able to overclock the 6800N with the stock fan to 6800U speeds. Worst case senario seems that you may require a $25 extra cooling solution to get the 6800N clocked to close to stock 6800U speeds.

I relaize the 6800GT and U will be faster if they are also OCed compared to the 6800N, but comparing a modded 6800N to a X800 XL that is also OCed to max potential safely and quickly, the 6800 wins hands down and is quite a bit cheaper.

Plus the PCIE 6800N OCed can be later used in SLI with another modded 6800N for even further possible future utility. Am I missing something?

 

[Yossairian]

Originally posted by: Demoth
and by all accounts the 6800 is a guarenteed bet to unlock 16 pipes and 6 vertex shaders using riva tuner.

According to who ? Last I saw, the unlockability was at about 50% chance on the AGP and next to none on the PCI-E.

 

[fstime]

PCI-e cant unlock.

Not to mention the NU is 350/600 and the XL is 400/980.

 

[Xed]

Originally posted by: Demoth
Plus many people seem to be able to overclock the 6800N with the stock fan to 6800U speeds.

Erm, I would like to see some of these

 

[Yossairian]

Originally posted by: Demoth
Plus many people seem to be able to overclock the 6800N with the stock fan to 6800U speeds.

Also Huh ?

6800N memory runs at what 700MHZ, you have heard of someone OC'ing that to 1100 ?

 

[Demoth]

My bad about the PCIE version not unlocking. However, I have been reading a lot of feedback about the AGP version overclocking over GT speeds. Pulled this and there are similar posts in new egg's actual customer feedback on the eVGA version of this card, which is the cheapest one listing at $241 right now.

"I have been running this card for about three months now and I am thrilled with the results! It is a bit cripled at the moment because I haven't finished my new computer, but my current system, a dual 2GHz Xeon, is getting me 8251 on 3dmark03 and 9521 overclocked. I cranked it all the way up to 449MHz core clock and 930MHz RAM clock with factory cooling and in a case with almost NO airflow. This overclocks almost like a GT!
If you are looking for a card that will run all the newest games quite well and don't want to burn a whole paycheck, this is the answer! "

and

"Very fast card for the $$! No problems unlocking extra 4 pipes and shader with Riva Tuner. The stock cooling isn't that great though. Installed the NV 5 cooler and idle temps went from 52c to 42c stock! Must have for overclocking. Detected optimal oc'ing speeds with nvidia software....403/853!!(With NV 5) Have mine running @ 400/850 16p/6s, idles @ 46c =). Got this for a budget build. Waiting for all the new cards/cpu's this year before I spend a lot.

3d Mark 03 Scores:
8,350 Stock
9,166 16p/6s
10,737 400/850, 16p/6s, NV 5 Cooling
11,000+ 410/875 "" Getting a little close to stock ultra speeds

Will oc above 410/875 (stable) but I don't want to burn it up."


If these responses were totally fabricated, new egg wouldn't allow them to remain or they would be hasseled when numerous buyers were frying their vid cards. Also, new egg does not censor posts that talk about failed over clocks and such, only direct attacks on brands, and not one poster of the numerous responses posted a failure to unlock the pipes on these cards leading me to believe the success rate for 16 pipes on the AGP 6800 series is close to 100%.

 

[Yossairian]

Originally posted by: Demoth

If these responses were totally fabricated, new egg wouldn't allow them to remain or they would be hasseled when numerous buyers were frying their vid cards.

You would like to think so, unfortunately thats not the case. There is so much BS on the newegg reviews I have to wear boots every time I visit the site. Newegg is a great vendor, dont get me wrong, but they are famous for cherry picking their user *using the term very loosely* "reviews".

Besideds, lets just say it is right. How long did he run it like this ? How was it tested ? For how long ? Just because someone bumps the speep up and runs a bench mark does not necessarily mean the card will run stable or reliably at that speed.

Futher assuming it does clock to that speed, you still have to deal with the 50% chance *or none if PCIE* of unlocking the pipes, and the godknowes what percentage chance you will get anywhere close to GT speeds * remember GT has DDR2, NU does not*.

Too many variables for me. For my money, I will spend a little extra and get the X800XL or a used/refurb 6800GT.

Now if you want to start talking about 6800NU vs 6600GT.....

 

[Yossairian]

Originally posted by: Demoth
Also, new egg does not censor posts that talk about failed over clocks and such, only direct attacks on brands, and not one poster of the numerous responses posted a failure to unlock the pipes on these cards leading me to believe the success rate for 16 pipes on the AGP 6800 series is close to 100%.

You can believe what you want, I would only suggust you do a little more research before coming to that conclusion. Look around on some forums, there were a couple of polls that were done awhile back that showed the success result was closer to %50.

I would also suggust re-evaluating your ideas on what newegg will and will not publish on thier site as far as reviews go. They will tailor that stuff any which way so they can sell more product, and it works. Just look, they have you ready to buy a card believing 100% success unlocking pipes * no offense*.

 

[Avalon]

Originally posted by: Demoth
Most people seem to be saying the X800 XL is the best price/performance card right now and are recommending this card even to overclockers. However, the 6800N sells for $241 versus $285 for the X800 XL (on New Egg)

You can easily get a brand new 6800NU on eBay for $200 or less, if you don't mind not having a warranty. By the sounds of your post, you won't need one anyway.

and by all accounts the 6800 is a guarenteed bet to unlock 16 pipes and 6 vertex shaders using riva tuner.

Completely wrong. There is no such thing as guaranteed. There was a large poll going on in these forums a while back that showed you had a 75% to unlock EITHER the 4th pipeline unit OR the vertex shader. It was much lower for those who were able to successfully unlock both (I think 40-50%). More often than not, it was the vertex shader that would unlock and not the pixel pipe quad. Mine unlocked fine, but I can only consider myself lucky.

In effect, anyone who spends a few minutes with a 6800N can have a much faster card then the X800 XL, equivalent to a 6800 GT.

It will not be equivalent to a GT. The 6800GT is clocked at 350/1000, while a 6800NU is clocked at 325/700 (or 600 for the PCI-e version). You cannot overclock 700mhz DDR memory to 1000mhz. In addition to that, you're short 128MB of memory. I've run tests comparing an unlocked and overclocked NU @ 350/850 versus a 6800GT @ stock 350/1000, and while the NU was identical in speed at resolutions of 10x7, it was around 5-10% behind at 12x9, and 25% behind at 16x12. Percentages approximated.

Now, if you compared a 350/850 unlocked NU to an X800XL, naturally things would be a little closer. You'd probably have about a 5% gain over the X800XL at 10x7, about equal to maybe a couple % slower at 12x9, and around 15% slower at 16x12. This is assuming you don't even overclock the X800XL.

Plus many people seem to be able to overclock the 6800N with the stock fan to 6800U speeds. Worst case senario seems that you may require a $25 extra cooling solution to get the 6800N clocked to close to stock 6800U speeds.

Many people? No. None. The memory won't take anything even remotely close. Some (as in NOT MANY) can overclock the core to 400mhz, but most of them required better cooling. Cooling on the 6800NU is pretty mediocre. I refuse to take my GPU over 350mhz until I can slap something better on the core. It would help, yes.

I relaize the 6800GT and U will be faster if they are also OCed compared to the 6800N, but comparing a modded 6800N to a X800 XL that is also OCed to max potential safely and quickly, the 6800 wins hands down and is quite a bit cheaper.

Wrong, see my third response. The 6800NU will not win hands down.

Plus the PCIE 6800N OCed can be later used in SLI with another modded 6800N for even further possible future utility. Am I missing something?

You cannot unlock a 6800NU PCI-e. Not only is that the biggest hurdle that can't be jumped, but you've also now got 600mhz memory to deal with.

That's what you're missing.

 

[Avalon]

Oh, and BTW. Newegg does censor posts about bad overclocks, and otherwise helpful posts, so long as you rate the product lower than the average vote. IE, your 2 star post with thoughtful criticism will not be posted on a 4 star average product. There are several products I've reviewed on there in the past that either had multiple small problems (albeit the product was still usable) or one large problem. Things like that are only worth about 2-3 stars from me. They were never posted. I didn't attack anyone in it.

 

[doublejbass]

More importantly, the AGP 6800NU, at least the BFG one that I had, has 128MB of memory, and so while I was able to get a 3dmark03 score of about 10700 on mine after a perfect unlock and so on, that was at 10x7, and if we're talking about 16x12? Total annihilation.