• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Why no info on Intel's next microarchitecture?

willfr

Member
Apr 27, 2016
33
5
41
Correct me if I'm wrong, Intel's first chip on the 10nm process will just be the Skylake/Kaby Lake microarchitecture again. The chip AFTER that will be the new design. I can't find any info about it though! I saw a tweet last month that said it really won't be possible to run Windows 7 on it because it'll be so different (apparently Windows 7 does run fine on Kaby Lake even though it's not officially supported)
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,128
131
Correct me if I'm wrong, Intel's first chip on the 10nm process will just be the Skylake/Kaby Lake microarchitecture again. The chip AFTER that will be the new design. I can't find any info about it though! I saw a tweet last month that said it really won't be possible to run Windows 7 on it because it'll be so different (apparently Windows 7 does run fine on Kaby Lake even though it's not officially supported)
Both Coffee Lake (14nm+ / 14nm++?) and Cannonlake (first 10nm product) are based on new cores.
 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
353
96
Both Coffee Lake (14nm+ / 14nm++?) and Cannonlake (first 10nm product) are based on new cores.
Are they? Last time i checked Cannon/Coffee Lake to Sky/Kaby Lake are basically what Broadwell was to Haswell.

The first next new arch is Icelake.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,109
4,948
136
This is news to me if true.
Why news? AFAIK Cannonlake is a tick from Skylake, the core will see some improvements. If one of our forumites is right regarding Coffee Lake, we may see the architectural changes sooner than Cannonlake, since Coffee may just be Cannonlake on 14nm.

That having been said, if the above is correct, expect Cannonlake cores to be a small change, just like we saw with Ivy over Sandy, Broadwell over Haswell.
 

Edrick

Golden Member
Feb 18, 2010
1,914
200
106
Why news? AFAIK Cannonlake is a tick from Skylake, the core will see some improvements. If one of our forumites is right regarding Coffee Lake, we may see the architectural changes sooner than Cannonlake, since Coffee may just be Cannonlake on 14nm.

That having been said, if the above is correct, expect Cannonlake cores to be a small change, just like we saw with Ivy over Sandy, Broadwell over Haswell.
I read "based on new cores" to imply a tock. Especially since that is what the OP was referring to. Icelake should be the next tock. I do not think there is any doubt that Cannonlake will be a tick with some small changes.

I would not say that Ivy was based on a new core over Sandy for example.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,272
640
126
If one of our forumites is right regarding Coffee Lake, we may see the architectural changes sooner than Cannonlake, since Coffee may just be Cannonlake on 14nm.
The slides show Cannonlake coming first, and that's not surprising at all because the H and ULV CFL quads replace SKUs that came later, and Intel has an incentive to roll out the weak and low core count SKUs first.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,109
4,948
136
I read "based on new cores" to imply a tock.
I read "based on new cores" as the opposite of using same cores, as the OP implied Skylake == Cannonlake from an arch point of view.

The slides show Cannonlake coming first, and that's not surprising at all because the H and ULV CFL quads replace SKUs that came later, and Intel has an incentive to roll out the weak and low core count SKUs first.
Indeed, I remember making the same wrong assumption before reading one would be used in mobile while the other would go in desktop.
 
Last edited:

Edrick

Golden Member
Feb 18, 2010
1,914
200
106
I read "based on new cores" as the opposite of using same cores, as the OP implied Skylake == Cannonlake from an arch point of view.
.
If Cannon remains a tick form of Skylake, then yes, Skylake == Cannonlake from an arch point of view.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,109
4,948
136
If Cannon remains a tick form of Skylake, then yes, Skylake == Cannonlake from an arch point of view.
Was Ivy Bridge the same as Sandy Bridge? Broadwell same as Haswell? Both ticks showed IPC improvements, albeit smaller than tocks.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
8,708
1,564
126
If Cannon remains a tick form of Skylake, then yes, Skylake == Cannonlake from an arch point of view.
Given the delays, I am assuming that Intel is bringing in some features from Icelake. It may only be just the FIVR and the IGP's fixed functions.
 

Edrick

Golden Member
Feb 18, 2010
1,914
200
106
Was Ivy Bridge the same as Sandy Bridge? Broadwell same as Haswell? Both ticks showed IPC improvements, albeit smaller than tocks.
From an architectural standpoint, yes they were. Small tweaks coupled with a process shrink, coupled with some added instruction sets.

Sandy, Haswell and Skylake were new architectures (tocks).
 
  • Like
Reactions: wingman04

superstition

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2008
2,219
216
101
I thought I read an article here that said tick–tock is no longer official nomenclature (one can only hope).
 

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,876
154
106

Borealis7

Platinum Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,746
95
91
word is on Oct 30th there will be a presentation of IceLake architecture in Haifa. we might get some leaks after that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cytg111
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
2,003
126
word is on Oct 30th there will be a presentation of IceLake architecture in Haifa. we might get some leaks after that.
That'd be awesome. It's going to be a long time before we get a new, interesting CPU architecture from Intel, so it'd be nice to get some details on it ahead of time.
 

willfr

Member
Apr 27, 2016
33
5
41
I think we can expect a good step forward in graphics performance, Intel really needs that
 

SAAA

Senior member
May 14, 2014
484
83
91
word is on Oct 30th there will be a presentation of IceLake architecture in Haifa. we might get some leaks after that.
So it's been a week and some... no news? I'm dying for any rumor right now... and I'm pretty disappointed by the lack of information given Icelake should have been released in 2017 if not for 14-10nm delays, but the underlying architecture must be ready if not complete by long now.
I don't see Cannonlake as particularly interesting either because it should be just more cores (10 years of quad core would have been excessive indeed) and little if any IPC increase, same as Ivy and Broadwell.

I think we can expect a good step forward in graphics performance, Intel really needs that
Also this, gen.9 was good but the real problem looks to be performance/mm^2 and that didn't improve much with all those generations. The die area went from most CPU to most iGPU and it's still trailing below mid-low range graphics, that's unreal.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY