Why Must We Be Silent in the Face of Such Outrages?

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Oh magomago, I used to be like you,being a Muslim man living in a western country I used to try and understand these attitudes, these blatant generalizations that never seem to stop expanding more and more and that raging hate that accompanies it. I typed up hundreds of pages through many forums, emails and letters trying to explain to these fools the magnitude of their generalizations! Just how many people they are judging and how many of those people they are labeling as murderers and terrorists are just people who go through their daily lives trying to make ends meet, provide the best life they can offer their children and be productive members of their society,and try to show those people how irrelevant and insignificant their knowledge of the real Islam is, yet no change that I can sense has ever happened. Not even one person turned around and said that he / she misunderstood things, or that he / she rushed to conclusions and that he / she is sorry for any disrespect they might have incurred on others.
The knowledge of Islam is available anytime anywhere in the age of the internet, those who want to know it's reality will go research it on the net, read about in books and or interact and inquire from followers of Islam like most of the nice,educated and sensible people do with me almost on a daily basis. Meanwhile, those looking for excuses to feed their hate also get what they want on the net, lies, things taken out of context, fabrications, rumor sites, watch sites, ANYTHING just as long as they feed this hate that is growing inside of them like a parasite that is soon to takeover them completely.
Let such people be, let them drown in the waters of their own ignorance and hate, verily Sommon Bokmon.

Knowledge of Islam? So, if Islam is so peaceful and friendly why are your people cutting off heads and strapping explosives to themselves and killing people "In the name of Islam".
Words mean very little. The actions tell the story. Islam, as a piece of text, may preach all the hand holding and peaceful actions in the world but the followers sure act differently. I dont care what the text says, I care how its interpreted and how the followers act based upon that interpretation. I think those actions speak for themselves. Defend your religion as you see fit. But it would be nice if "making ends meet" also included making sure the neck continued to meet the body......

They might ask the same about "Christian" Cruise Missiles, Gunships, and other Military tools.

Link?

Ah...didnt think so.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Some people, like the Author of this "article", should STFU, because they add nothing constructive to the issue. Like it or not Islam is here and will continue to exist.

We can fix that, and should do so.

The ideology used to ferment war waged against us should be abolished. I wonder how many more attacks it will require before people start to catch on that this century is merely getting started and we haven?t seen anything compared to what they intend to do. Some of us view the violent teachings as a non-threat, considering them only savages or something. Well we saw how they handle box cutters, why are the same voices that tell us there is no threat the SAME voices clamoring for their rights to nuclear technology and the inherent weapons therein?

Apparently when we view someone who swears oaths to kill us, and we dismiss them as a non threat we give the all the time and rights in the world to develop into a nuclear threat.

 

[ElDonAntonio]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: ElDonAntonio
The difference though is that simply questioning the scope of the Holocaust now will get you prison time in a very large part of the world. If you want to talk about free speech, check out the Holocaust issue before talking about Islam.

Ah, yes -- the grand El Dorito -- again making grand statements without any backing; I wouldn't consider 12 countries a "very large part of the world", unless, of course, I was trying to make a false assertion.

Other than that, since when does one have to tackle the issue of holocaust denial speech before saying anything about islam?
The former is regarding a specific event that happened in the past, while the latter is about making observations about things as they are, e.g. Iraq, Sudan, etc, without having to worry about death threats (e.g. Ayaan Hirshi Ali), or getting murdered (Theo Van Gogh).

While discussing holocaust denail laws is valid, you're merely trying to use them as a distraction in this case.

BTW, I'm still waiting for your reply in this thread.

I do consider those 12 countries a very large part of the world. Or if you prefer, a very large part of the "western civilized world". I have no problem criticizing horrible things happening in the name of Islam. But I'm even more appalled that historians are being sent to prison when they question the scope of the holocaust. The former is censorship based on political correctness. The latter is censorship based on a law that will send you to prison. I find it worse.

I'm not trying to invalidate the OP's point, but I'm disgusted that anything islamic will cause outrage while anything christian or jewish will silently slip under the rug.

I forgot the other thread as I was away for two weeks. I can reply all you want but I'm not expecting any one of us to convince the other.

 

[imported_Equinox]

If you wish to stop "pandering", it begins at home. Stop "pandering" as a nation to Israel.

I'm not implying that we should suddenly become anti-semites, but if the Middle East has issues, we should at least look at the country that has been oppressors and purveyors of violence. A large portion of our current problems are not due to the religion of Islam, or the people that practice Islam, they are due to people that side against them, and continually stir up trouble *with* Islam. I believe if we left them alone, they would leave us alone.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: ElDonAntonio
I do consider those 12 countries a very large part of the world. Or if you prefer, a very large part of the "western civilized world".

Whatever works for your argument; you could've easily said the entire world by limiting the set to those 11 countries (Israel shouldn't be included) -- an undisputable argument, right?

I have no problem criticizing horrible things happening in the name of Islam.

Should, would, could, but still didn't.

But I'm even more appalled that historians are being sent to prison when they question the scope of the holocaust.

Heh....
I suggest you google up Irving, or check Wikipedia.
A man who claims that Hitler did not know about the extermination is no historian.


The former is censorship based on political correctness. The latter is censorship based on a law that will send you to prison. I find it worse.

I'm not trying to invalidate the OP's point, but I'm disgusted that anything islamic will cause outrage while anything christian or jewish will silently slip under the rug.

Again, comparing apples and oranges: a work of revisionist history published by Irving, which lands him and only him in jail, cannot be honestly compared to the burning down of churches embassies, murder of nuns and other Christians, following the remarks of the pope or some Danish cartoons.

I forgot the other thread as I was away for two weeks. I can reply all you want but I'm not expecting any one of us to convince the other.

You won't convince anyone of anything if all you bring to the table is common sense in order to counter evidence and facts.

 

[Termagant]

So all Muslims should be either killed or converted, because the religion is inherently intolerant and violent?

 

[imported_Equinox]

If you want to kill a dog, kill it. Don't tease it perpetually for the sake of a dollar and call it anything other than cruelty. Kill the dog, but don't claim that you were doing it for the sake of anything but sport. At least be honest about the abominations you preach.

Oh, wait. Honesty is nothing our president offers.

 

[imported_dna]

It is always so amusing when the discussion devolves to witty sayings so detached from reality.

So far -- to use your analogy -- it has been dog on dog violence that led to so many deaths, and they had it for each other even before the first soldier set foot there.

(BTW, I made no comment as to the wisdom behind going into Iraq, so better hold on to that WMD rhetoric)

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Termagant
So all Muslims should be either killed or converted, because the religion is inherently intolerant and violent?

eh...you've got it backwards. Convert or die is a fundemental muslim belief. At least for those who actually read their Qoran.

And yes. It is inherantly intolerant.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Oh magomago, I used to be like you,being a Muslim man living in a western country I used to try and understand these attitudes, these blatant generalizations that never seem to stop expanding more and more and that raging hate that accompanies it. I typed up hundreds of pages through many forums, emails and letters trying to explain to these fools the magnitude of their generalizations! Just how many people they are judging and how many of those people they are labeling as murderers and terrorists are just people who go through their daily lives trying to make ends meet, provide the best life they can offer their children and be productive members of their society,and try to show those people how irrelevant and insignificant their knowledge of the real Islam is, yet no change that I can sense has ever happened. Not even one person turned around and said that he / she misunderstood things, or that he / she rushed to conclusions and that he / she is sorry for any disrespect they might have incurred on others.
The knowledge of Islam is available anytime anywhere in the age of the internet, those who want to know it's reality will go research it on the net, read about in books and or interact and inquire from followers of Islam like most of the nice,educated and sensible people do with me almost on a daily basis. Meanwhile, those looking for excuses to feed their hate also get what they want on the net, lies, things taken out of context, fabrications, rumor sites, watch sites, ANYTHING just as long as they feed this hate that is growing inside of them like a parasite that is soon to takeover them completely.
Let such people be, let them drown in the waters of their own ignorance and hate, verily Sommon Bokmon.

Knowledge of Islam? So, if Islam is so peaceful and friendly why are your people cutting off heads and strapping explosives to themselves and killing people "In the name of Islam".
Words mean very little. The actions tell the story. Islam, as a piece of text, may preach all the hand holding and peaceful actions in the world but the followers sure act differently. I dont care what the text says, I care how its interpreted and how the followers act based upon that interpretation. I think those actions speak for themselves. Defend your religion as you see fit. But it would be nice if "making ends meet" also included making sure the neck continued to meet the body......

They might ask the same about "Christian" Cruise Missiles, Gunships, and other Military tools.

Link?

Ah...didnt think so.

Watch the News.