Why Must We Be Silent in the Face of Such Outrages?

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DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
2,822
0
0
Oh magomago, I used to be like you,being a Muslim man living in a western country I used to try and understand these attitudes, these blatant generalizations that never seem to stop expanding more and more and that raging hate that accompanies it. I typed up hundreds of pages through many forums, emails and letters trying to explain to these fools the magnitude of their generalizations! Just how many people they are judging and how many of those people they are labeling as murderers and terrorists are just people who go through their daily lives trying to make ends meet, provide the best life they can offer their children and be productive members of their society,and try to show those people how irrelevant and insignificant their knowledge of the real Islam is, yet no change that I can sense has ever happened. Not even one person turned around and said that he / she misunderstood things, or that he / she rushed to conclusions and that he / she is sorry for any disrespect they might have incurred on others.
The knowledge of Islam is available anytime anywhere in the age of the internet, those who want to know it's reality will go research it on the net, read about in books and or interact and inquire from followers of Islam like most of the nice,educated and sensible people do with me almost on a daily basis. Meanwhile, those looking for excuses to feed their hate also get what they want on the net, lies, things taken out of context, fabrications, rumor sites, watch sites, ANYTHING just as long as they feed this hate that is growing inside of them like a parasite that is soon to takeover them completely.
Let such people be, let them drown in the waters of their own ignorance and hate, verily Sommon Bokmon.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,291
5,867
126
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Oh magomago, I used to be like you,being a Muslim man living in a western country I used to try and understand these attitudes, these blatant generalizations that never seem to stop expanding more and more and that raging hate that accompanies it. I typed up hundreds of pages through many forums, emails and letters trying to explain to these fools the magnitude of their generalizations! Just how many people they are judging and how many of those people they are labeling as murderers and terrorists are just people who go through their daily lives trying to make ends meet, provide the best life they can offer their children and be productive members of their society,and try to show those people how irrelevant and insignificant their knowledge of the real Islam is, yet no change that I can sense has ever happened. Not even one person turned around and said that he / she misunderstood things, or that he / she rushed to conclusions and that he / she is sorry for any disrespect they might have incurred on others.
The knowledge of Islam is available anytime anywhere in the age of the internet, those who want to know it's reality will go research it on the net, read about in books and or interact and inquire from followers of Islam like most of the nice,educated and sensible people do with me almost on a daily basis. Meanwhile, those looking for excuses to feed their hate also get what they want on the net, lies, things taken out of context, fabrications, rumor sites, watch sites, ANYTHING just as long as they feed this hate that is growing inside of them like a parasite that is soon to takeover them completely.
Let such people be, let them drown in the waters of their own ignorance and hate, verily Sommon Bokmon.

Unfortunetly true. Like Jesus would suggest, shake the dust off your feet and move on.
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
2
81
Originally posted by: sandorski
Some people, like the Author of this "article", should STFU, because they add nothing constructive to the issue. Like it or not Islam is here and will continue to exist. In the past these things didn't happen, perhaps it's time to open your eyes and see that there's more to recent events then that "those people are evil".

I think the point is everyone can trample on Christianity at will and that is ok but you have to walk on egg shells when you talk about Islam and that is just flat out wrong.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Oh magomago, I used to be like you,being a Muslim man living in a western country I used to try and understand these attitudes, these blatant generalizations that never seem to stop expanding more and more and that raging hate that accompanies it. I typed up hundreds of pages through many forums, emails and letters trying to explain to these fools the magnitude of their generalizations! Just how many people they are judging and how many of those people they are labeling as murderers and terrorists are just people who go through their daily lives trying to make ends meet, provide the best life they can offer their children and be productive members of their society,and try to show those people how irrelevant and insignificant their knowledge of the real Islam is, yet no change that I can sense has ever happened. Not even one person turned around and said that he / she misunderstood things, or that he / she rushed to conclusions and that he / she is sorry for any disrespect they might have incurred on others.
The knowledge of Islam is available anytime anywhere in the age of the internet, those who want to know it's reality will go research it on the net, read about in books and or interact and inquire from followers of Islam like most of the nice,educated and sensible people do with me almost on a daily basis. Meanwhile, those looking for excuses to feed their hate also get what they want on the net, lies, things taken out of context, fabrications, rumor sites, watch sites, ANYTHING just as long as they feed this hate that is growing inside of them like a parasite that is soon to takeover them completely.
Let such people be, let them drown in the waters of their own ignorance and hate, verily Sommon Bokmon.

Knowledge of Islam? So, if Islam is so peaceful and friendly why are your people cutting off heads and strapping explosives to themselves and killing people "In the name of Islam".
Words mean very little. The actions tell the story. Islam, as a piece of text, may preach all the hand holding and peaceful actions in the world but the followers sure act differently. I dont care what the text says, I care how its interpreted and how the followers act based upon that interpretation. I think those actions speak for themselves. Defend your religion as you see fit. But it would be nice if "making ends meet" also included making sure the neck continued to meet the body......
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
0
0
Originally posted by: XMan
Originally posted by: magomago
I've been slowly watching this thread and just felt out like point out some inconsistencies.

People in Syria, Palestine, Eygpt, Mid East, etc. etc. do NOT want "Western Civilization" dead, and this is PURE FUD that you are spreaindg - especially considering that for most of history the devleopment of many socities that we would label "Western" or "Non

It's not FUD. It's the Koran. You should give it a read, along with a few other books - The Satanic Verses, by Rushdie, Infidel, by Hirsi Ali, and Reading Lolita in Teheran, by Nafisi.

Surah 9:5: "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Surah 9:29: "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute [jizya tax] readily, being brought low."

Is that to say all people in those nations believe that way? No, just those who are devout in their beliefs and haven't been secularized.

It's surpising to me, most especially after reading Infidel, that more "progressives" don't come to realize what a threat Wahabbist Islam is to the very concept of women's rights and feminism.

Deuteronomy:
13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
When to Stone Your Whole Family
13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

Leviticus:
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Exodus:
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

2 Chronicles:
15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Originally posted by: XMan
Originally posted by: magomago
I've been slowly watching this thread and just felt out like point out some inconsistencies.

People in Syria, Palestine, Eygpt, Mid East, etc. etc. do NOT want "Western Civilization" dead, and this is PURE FUD that you are spreaindg - especially considering that for most of history the devleopment of many socities that we would label "Western" or "Non

It's not FUD. It's the Koran. You should give it a read, along with a few other books - The Satanic Verses, by Rushdie, Infidel, by Hirsi Ali, and Reading Lolita in Teheran, by Nafisi.

Surah 9:5: "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Surah 9:29: "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute [jizya tax] readily, being brought low."

Is that to say all people in those nations believe that way? No, just those who are devout in their beliefs and haven't been secularized.

It's surpising to me, most especially after reading Infidel, that more "progressives" don't come to realize what a threat Wahabbist Islam is to the very concept of women's rights and feminism.

Deuteronomy:
13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
When to Stone Your Whole Family
13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

Leviticus:
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Exodus:
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

2 Chronicles:
15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

And how often is it interpreted like that?........
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Originally posted by: XMan
Originally posted by: magomago
I've been slowly watching this thread and just felt out like point out some inconsistencies.

People in Syria, Palestine, Eygpt, Mid East, etc. etc. do NOT want "Western Civilization" dead, and this is PURE FUD that you are spreaindg - especially considering that for most of history the devleopment of many socities that we would label "Western" or "Non

It's not FUD. It's the Koran. You should give it a read, along with a few other books - The Satanic Verses, by Rushdie, Infidel, by Hirsi Ali, and Reading Lolita in Teheran, by Nafisi.

Surah 9:5: "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Surah 9:29: "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute [jizya tax] readily, being brought low."

Is that to say all people in those nations believe that way? No, just those who are devout in their beliefs and haven't been secularized.

It's surpising to me, most especially after reading Infidel, that more "progressives" don't come to realize what a threat Wahabbist Islam is to the very concept of women's rights and feminism.

Deuteronomy:
13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
When to Stone Your Whole Family
13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

Leviticus:
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Exodus:
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

2 Chronicles:
15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

And how often is it interpreted like that?........

Almost never, however I was addressing XMan's comment blaming the Koran for problems in the middle east. If violent verses were the problem then we would expect to see the same problem with Christianity yet we don't. The problem is not Islam itself but rather the fact that it has no mainstream power structures to alienate radicals. (ex: Martin Luther and the Protestant Revolution for Christianity).
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,291
5,867
126
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: sandorski
Some people, like the Author of this "article", should STFU, because they add nothing constructive to the issue. Like it or not Islam is here and will continue to exist. In the past these things didn't happen, perhaps it's time to open your eyes and see that there's more to recent events then that "those people are evil".

I think the point is everyone can trample on Christianity at will and that is ok but you have to walk on egg shells when you talk about Islam and that is just flat out wrong.

Really? Christianity is labelled the same way as Islam in the OP is?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,291
5,867
126
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Oh magomago, I used to be like you,being a Muslim man living in a western country I used to try and understand these attitudes, these blatant generalizations that never seem to stop expanding more and more and that raging hate that accompanies it. I typed up hundreds of pages through many forums, emails and letters trying to explain to these fools the magnitude of their generalizations! Just how many people they are judging and how many of those people they are labeling as murderers and terrorists are just people who go through their daily lives trying to make ends meet, provide the best life they can offer their children and be productive members of their society,and try to show those people how irrelevant and insignificant their knowledge of the real Islam is, yet no change that I can sense has ever happened. Not even one person turned around and said that he / she misunderstood things, or that he / she rushed to conclusions and that he / she is sorry for any disrespect they might have incurred on others.
The knowledge of Islam is available anytime anywhere in the age of the internet, those who want to know it's reality will go research it on the net, read about in books and or interact and inquire from followers of Islam like most of the nice,educated and sensible people do with me almost on a daily basis. Meanwhile, those looking for excuses to feed their hate also get what they want on the net, lies, things taken out of context, fabrications, rumor sites, watch sites, ANYTHING just as long as they feed this hate that is growing inside of them like a parasite that is soon to takeover them completely.
Let such people be, let them drown in the waters of their own ignorance and hate, verily Sommon Bokmon.

Knowledge of Islam? So, if Islam is so peaceful and friendly why are your people cutting off heads and strapping explosives to themselves and killing people "In the name of Islam".
Words mean very little. The actions tell the story. Islam, as a piece of text, may preach all the hand holding and peaceful actions in the world but the followers sure act differently. I dont care what the text says, I care how its interpreted and how the followers act based upon that interpretation. I think those actions speak for themselves. Defend your religion as you see fit. But it would be nice if "making ends meet" also included making sure the neck continued to meet the body......

They might ask the same about "Christian" Cruise Missiles, Gunships, and other Military tools.
 

imported_Tango

Golden Member
Mar 8, 2005
1,623
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Pretty accurate. Why DO we pander and tip toe around some of the worlds most violent people? Why is it that people are so afraid to offend someone they cant call a spade for what it is? When will the world wake up and realize theres a very large subset of the Islamic religion that wants the entire world converted or killed, and will stop at nothing to accomplish that?

Click

Why Must We Be Silent in the Face of Such Outrages?

By Adrian Morgan

The past week has seen three incidents demonstrating Islamists? total hatred for Christianity and the values of the West. On Wednesday, April 18 in Malatya, central Turkey, three Christians were tied up, tortured for up to three hours, and then had their throats slit. Two of the victims, Ugur Yuksel amd Necati Aydin, were Turkish, and the other was a German national, Tilmann Geske. Their crime was to be Christians, working for Zirve, a publishing house which prints Bibles.

Four people were arrested at the scene. The suspected leader of the killers, 19-year old Emre Gunaydin, had thrown himself from a window to escape arrest, sustaining head injuries in the fall. On Saturday, Gunaydin?s girlfriend was also arrested. Malatya is the hometown of Mehmet Ali Agca, who tried to murder Pope John Paul II in 1981. Even though both Turks who died on Wednesday had abandoned Islam and converted to Christianity, Ugur Yuksel was buried as a Muslim.

Thousands of miles away on Jolo island in the southern Philippines, seven Christians were taken hostage by Muslim terrorists last Monday. Their kidnappers belonged to the group Abu Sayyaf, which has links with Al Qaeda and also the pan-Asian terror group Jemaah Islamiyah which has enacted numerous atrocities, including the Bali bombings of October 12, 2002, in which 202 people died, and of October 1, 2005, in which 20 people died.

The Abu Sayyaf group has a reputation for hostage-taking. It also has a reputation for decapitating hostages. The leader of Abu Sayyaf on the island of Jolo is Radullan Sahiron, a one-armed man who rides a horse. This individual would be easy to identify, but because he beheads local people whom he considers to be "spies", no one informs on him, and he has so far escaped arrest. He has a 5 million-peso bounty on his head, worth $89,000 US.

On Thursday, April 19, the severed heads of five of the Christian victims were left at one army camp, and the heads of the other two were left at another military camp later on the same day. Their bodies were found in a village on Friday.

Last Tuesday, in Peshawar, main city of Pakistan?s troubled North-West Frontier Province, a disturbing video was recovered by Associated Press. A bearded man, identified as Ghulam Nabi, is shown in a car, claiming his innocence. A ligature is tied around his neck. Nabi is then shown on his knees on the ground, his hands tied behind his back. A man pulls at his beard to expose his throat. He is then decapitated.

What makes this video more disturbing is that the killer is a fresh-faced boy, barely 12 years of age. The video (censored at the moment the knife touches Nabi?s throat) can be found here. The boy hacks at the victim?s neck, and when he finally severs the head, it is raised aloft, while the words "Allahu Ackbar" ("Allah is great") are chanted by onlookers. The soundtrack of the video has songs praising Mullah Omar (leader of the Afghan Taliban) and Osama bin Laden.

Ghulam Nabi was a Pakistani Taliban member from Baluchistan, southwestern Pakistan, who was accused of being a "spy" for the US. Nabi was blamed for the death of Akhtar Mohammad Osmani, an ex-governor of Uruzgan province in Afghanistan. Osmani, a senior leader in the Afghan Taliban, had been killed by a US airstrike on December 19 last year.

Slitting throats and beheading people are not the actions of honorable men, especially as in Turkey and the Philippines the victims were guilty only of belonging to another faith. Apologists for Islam will claim that such actions are not typical of Islam, yet these people are either deliberately lying or they are totally ignorant of Islam?s history.

In Turkey, the killings of the three Christians have been condemned by the most senior Muslim in the nation, Ali Bardakoglu, head of the Religious Affairs Directorate. On September 14, 2006, Bardakoglu had demanded that Pope Benedict XVI retract comments which had been made in a speech at the University at Regensburg. Bardakoglu called the pontiff?s words "extraordinarily worrying, saddening and unfortunate" and questioned if they reflected the "spite, hatred and enmity" of others in the Christian world.

In his Regensberg Address on September 12, Benedict had quoted a Byzantine emperor, Manuel Paleologos, who around the year 1391 had said "show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Though the Pope did not condone this statement, Muslims around the world did what Muslims seem to do best - they whined about their victimhood and threatened violence.

In Pakistan, the US-designated terror organization Jamaat ud-Dawa (not outlawed by Pakistan) issued a fatwa, urging the Muslim community to kill the Pope. In Britain, Anjem Choudary, a former leader of Al-Muhajiroun claimed outside the Catholic Westminster Cathedral that the Pope should be executed. Choudary was not charged for this.

Killings of Christians ensued. In Iraq, an Assyrian priest, Father Paulos Iskander, was beheaded, and a 14-year old Christian boy was crucified in Albasra. A group calling itself "Kataab Ashbal Al Islam Al Salafi" threatened to kill all Christians in Iraq if the pontiff did not apologize to Mohammed, the founder of Islam.

In Israel, churches were attacked. In Somalia on September 17 an Italian nun, Sister Leonella, was shot three times in the back while she worked in the SOS Hospital in the Huriwa district of Mogadishu. Three other nuns were subsequently evacuated for their safety. A Somali imam, Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin, urged Muslims to "punish" the Pope. He said: "Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim."

When Salman Rushdie received a fatwa against his life on February 14, 1989 for "insulting" Islam, Muslims across Britain, India and Pakistan called for his death. In July 1991, Hitoshi Igarashi, Rushdie?s Japanese translator, was stabbed to death. In the same month Ettore Capriolo, the Italian translator of the Satanic Verses, was seriously injured in a stabbing attack.

On November 2 2004, baby-faced Muslim killer Mohammed Bouyeri stabbed, shot and tried to behead film-maker Theo van Gogh on an Amsterdam street. Van Gogh had made a film about the appalling treatment of women in Islam. This film, called Submission, (Islam means just that) had been scripted by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali apostate from Islam. With a knife, Bouyeri had pinned a "hit list" to van Gogh?s chest. This list named people who had insulted Islam, including Hirsi Ali and Dutch politician Geert Wilders.

In February last year, Danish cartoons of the so-called prophet Mohammed led to violent riots from Indonesia to Gaza to Pakistan, Nigeria and India. At least thirty people died. The illustrators had to go into hiding. A Taliban commander in Pakistan claimed that assassins were traveling to Denmark to kill the artists. In Trabzon in Turkey on February 5, 2006, Catholic priest Father Andrea Santoro was shot in the back by a 16-year old youth who shouted "Allahu Ackbar". The youth was later sentenced to 18 years? jail.

In India, a Muslim state minister in Uttar Pradesh offered $10 million to anyone who beheaded any of the Danish cartoonists. In Peshawar in Pakistan Mohammed Yousaf Qureshi, imam of the Mohabat Khan mosque, offered1.5 million rupees ($17,000) and a car to anyone who killed one of the artists. Neither of these individuals was charged with incitement.

When Banglaldeshi author Taslima Nasreen wrote of the poor treatment of Hindus in her native country and criticized Islam?s treatment of women, an imam issued a fatwa against her, offering a bounty of $5,000 upon her head. In 1994 after mass protests against her, Taslima had to leave Bangladesh. She later went to Calcutta in India to care for her dying mother. In March 2004, the head of the Muslim Raza Academy threatened to burn her if she ever set foot in Mumbai (Bombay).

In January 2004, Syed Noor-ur-Rehman Barkati, main imam of Tippu Sultan Mosque in Kolkata said to a congregation of 10,000 that he would offer 20,000 rupees ($436) to anyone who would blacken Taslima?s face "with ink, paint or tar. Or she can be garlanded with shoes." In June 2006 the same imam offered on local TV the sum of 50,000 rupees ($1,175) to anyone who blackened her face and drove her out of Calcutta. Last month Taqi Raza Khan, president of the All India Ibtehad Council, issued a 500,000 rupee ($11,760) reward for anyone who would decapitate (sar qalam karna) or drive Taslima Nasreen from India.

In Pakistan, a malicious rumor that a Koran has been "desecrated" is enough to cause anti-Christian riots. On November 12, 2005, such a rumor led to a community at Sangla Hill in Punjab province being attacked by Muslim fanatics who were urged on by imams at mosques. Four churches were attacked, along with two priests? houses, a kindergarten school, a nunnery and a medical center.

On February 19, 2006 Muslims incensed by the Danish cartoons rampaged against Christian targets in Sukkur, Sindh province in south Pakistan. The St Saviour?s Church and St Xavier?s Church, as well as St Mary?s school which had been built in 1889, were set alight.

On September 19 last year, French philosophy lecturer Robert Redeker wrote an incisive piece on Islam for the newspaper Le Figaro. This included a statement that the Koran was "a book of unparalleled violence". As a result, he found himself and his family on the receiving end of death threats. Photographs of Redker?s family and maps of his home were circulated on the internet. He and his family moved location several times, and he lost his job.

Is there a pattern in the above incidents? Since the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, Muslims around the world have learned to exploit the politics of fear. Muslims have threatened, and continue to threaten, death against anyone who "insults" Islam or its founder. And what is the end result? People in the West buy into this thuggish barbarism. The ideological foundations of the West were built upon the finest principles distilled from ancient Greek, Christian and Jewish heritage. Yet now, those who represent us in the media and politics are intimidated into silence. Like cowards with no principles, we offer up our bellies to the beast of Islam.

Last week the biggest news in Lewiston, Maine, concerned a terrible "hate-crime", where a college student put a bag of pork onto a table where Muslim Somali students were eating. The incident was not something to praise, but compared to Islam?s intimidation of the entire Western world, it amounts to less than a hill of beans.

In Europe, the ideologues of the European Union have created a lexicon of words that politicians must never use - such as "fundamentalism", "jihad" and "Islamic terrorism", even though Islam was built upon terrorism and war. One EU commissioner, Franco Frattini, has even stated publicly that there is "no such thing" as Islamic terrorism.

Out of fear, people cave in before they are even threatened. In September 2005 the Tate Gallery in Pimlico, London, removed an artwork by conceptual artist John Latham, because it contained a copy of the Koran. In November 2005, a production of the play Tamburlaine the Great was deliberately censored at the Barbican in London. The producer, David Farr, omitted a scene where Tamburlaine burns the Koran, admitting he had done so for fear of offending Muslims.

When a 1740 play by Voltaire, entitled Fanatacisme, ou Mahomet le Prophete (Fanatacism, or Mohammed the Prophet) was due to be read out in Geneva in 1994, the authorities banned the performance. When the play was performed in the southern French town of Saint-Genis-Pouilly in December 2005, Muslims caused a small riot.

In Germany in September 2006, Deutsche Oper Berlin cancelled a production of Mozart?s opera Idomeneo. The revised production included severed heads of religious leaders, including Mohammed. This was thought by Kirsten Harms, the theater?s Director, to be too risky. She cited "questions of sensitivity, also questions of political diplomacy" for her actions. The opera was later staged with little fuss.

Dante Aligheiri (1265 - 1321) wrote the visionary book the Divine Comedy (Divina Commedia) in three parts. The Inferno features (in Canto 28) a description of Mohammed in Hell: "Rent from the chin to where one breaketh wind. Between his legs were hanging down his entrails; his heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten." In the 15th century, artist Giovanni da Modena painted a fresco of Hell, including Mohammed as one its denizens, in the Basilica of St Petronio in Bologna, Italy (pictured). In 2002 a Muslim plot to destroy the fresco was foiled.

In Britain, appeasement of Muslims proliferates. Churches hold interfaith services, with Muslims leading prayers. So far, no mosque has reciprocated by holding interfaith services with Christians leading prayer. Judeo-Christian morality guided the West and helped it to grow, yet now Christians are weak in defense of their faith. Councils such as Lambeth in south London have purged all mention of Christmas in their Christmas illuminations.

Jews are regularly insulted and attacked by Muslims. I saw this at first hand when I lived in Stamford Hill, an Orthodox Jewish area of north London. Jews had lived there for a century but in the 1990s, Muslims from outside the neighborhood began to buy up properties in the area to create Islamic seminaries. In Casenove Road, N16, a Muslim boys? school was set up less than 15 yards from an Orthodox school, and fighting regularly occurred, instigated mostly by Muslim pupils. The media and the police ignore their plight, preferring to magnify the slights against Islam, which rarely involve violence. Jewish people are FOUR TIMES more likely to be on the receiving end of faith-based attacks than Muslims.

Rabbi Alex Chapper, from Ilford in Essex, was walking home from synagogue with three friends, when they were attacked by a group of seven Muslim teenagers, who had called them "Yehudi". One shouted: "We are Pakistani, you are Jewish. We are going to kill you," before punching Rabbi Chapper in the face. One Jewish man was hit over the head with a bottle, but police did nothing. Rabbi Chapper said: "We identified the youths and told the police but they were never prosecuted. They just did not seem interested. I feel very let down."

English language Islamic websites continue to produce anti-Semitic filth like the following from a Saudi site: "The Jews, who are the nation of pigs and monkeys, are nothing but a source of evil, corruption, tribulation and war. Hatred against the Muslims is inherited by every generation of Jews who in turn teach it to their children. Our enmity and hostility against them is based on our faith."

Abdulrahman al-Sudais (also spelled Sudeis or Sudayyis) is imam at the Grand Mosque at Mecca. He has called Jews "the scum of the human race, the rats of the world, the violators of pacts and agreements, the murderers of the prophets, and the offspring of apes and pigs."

This anti-Semitism was initiated by Mohammed himself, who according to Sahih Muslim said: "The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him..." Sura 5:60 of the Koran describes certain Jews transformed into apes and pigs, and in Sura 5:82 it is written: "Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters."

Two high street banks in Britain, the Natwest and Halifax, ordered that no pigs should be depicted in their branches or advertising, lest they offend Muslims. Jews have been a vital presence in Britain since the time of Oliver Cromwell, and though Jews do not eat pork, no bank had paused to consider if images of piggy banks might offend Jews. Dudley Council tried to ban all images of pigs in 2005, lest these "cause offense" to Muslims.

Schools also try to censor mentions of pigs, for fear of hurting Muslim feelings. In Batley, Yorkshire, a principal banned all telling of stories involving pigs to young children. Barbara Harris explained: "Recently I have been aware of an occasion where young Muslim children in class were read stories about pigs. We try to be sensitive to the fact that for Muslims talk of pigs is offensive."

This March, a children?s concert was altered by politically correct teachers, who objected to mention of the Three Little Pigs. These became the "Three Little Puppies", before public outcry reversed the decision. A spokeswoman for Kirklees Primary Music Festival said: "We feared that some Muslim children wouldn?t sing along to the words about pigs. We didn?t want to take that risk. If changing a few words avoids offense then we will do so."

A recent report from Britain?s Historical Association claims that in some UK schools, teachers have stopped teaching about the Holocaust or the Crusades. This is because the educators were unwilling to confront "anti-Semitic sentiment and Holocaust denial among some Muslim pupils."

We in the West (and particularly in Britain) have become deracinated, afraid to talk of our culture with any pride. "Heritage" in Britain merely celebrates a few old buildings, but not the thoughts, deeds, traditions, inventiveness, aspirations and inspirations of our forebears.

In the United States, Muslims have openly campaigned to demand that public buildings have no representations of Mohammed displayed. According to Bukhari, "whoever makes a picture, will be punished on the Day of Resurrection and will be ordered to put a soul in that picture, which he will not be able to do." In the 1950s, when the Muslim presence in America was minimal, a sculpture of Mohammed was removed from the steps of the Manhattan Appellant Courthouse in New York after lobbying by Muslim nations.

In 1935, when the current Supreme Court building was opened, it contained a frieze of historical law-givers, carved by architectural sculptor Adolph A. Weinman. This included an image of Mohammed (pictured). In 1997, CAIR petitioned Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, demanding that the statue be sandblasted or removed. CAIR, then only three years in existence, objected to the sword in Mohammed?s hand as it was viewed as "reinforcing long-held stereotypes of Muslims as intolerant conquerors."

The stereotype is not incorrect. According to the Koran, Mohammed himself was a warmonger. One entire Sura of the Koran, (Sura 8, Al-Anfal or "The Spoils of War") describes the caravan raiding committed by the "prophet" outside Mecca. The earliest biographer of Mohammed was Ibn Isshaq (d. 768). His work survives in redactions by Ibn Hisham (died 828). In one of the many battles waged by Mohammed, that of Udud (625 AD), the prophet offered a sword to the bravest fighter, saying of this weapon: "It is to strike the enemy?s faces with it until it is bent."

If Mohammed were alive today, he would almost certainly be in jail, guilty of war crimes. Suspecting a plot against himself, he ordered that the entire male population of a Jewish tribe in Medina, the Banu Qurayzah, should be decapitated, according to Isshaq?s testimony. Seven hundred males were beheaded in one afternoon while Mohammed watched. The wives and children of the tribe were distributed as slaves and "booty" to his followers.

Mohammed today would also be subject to the terms of Megan?s Law. When he was in his sixth decade of life, Mohammed consummated his marriage to Aisha. She was a child aged nine. Bukhari (810 to 870 AD) wrote (Vol VII, Book 62, Number 64): "Narrated Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that ?Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)."

Tabari (d. 923) wrote (IX:131): (Aisha narrated) "My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was then brought in while the Messenger was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. Then the men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old."

Personally, I can only describe such an individual as a monster, despite claims by Somali cleric Sheikh Ahmed Abdullahi that Mohammed was "the most honorable person who ever lived in the world."

Via the internet, I have twice been subjected to Muslim threats to have my head sliced off, because I was not "respectful" of Islam. While extremists terrorize people with their threats, so-called "moderate" political Muslims simultaneously work with their leftist allies to erode the social fabric of Western societies. I have been vilified by members of Britain?s left as a "frothing right-wing Islamophobe", even though I abhor any poor treatment of individual Muslims. Such is the price, it seems, of free speech in today?s world.

I am a citizen of a free country that is rapidly losing its sense of what freedom represents. Freedom of expression, freedom of speech, are fundamentals in a healthy democracy. Appeasement to an uncompromising 7th century ideology, especially when such appeasement is motivated more by fear than by genuine respect, is the fast route to totalitarianism or subjugation.

America is not nearly as far down the road to perdition as Europe and Britain. Unless people are allowed to speak freely, critically and openly about any dead religious figure, even if that speech causes offense to some, the very mainstays of our Western values will disappear. I would rather live free and forthright, even with death threats from barbarians, than be cowed into silence under PC servitude. Remember what your Constitution was built upon, and stand up for what it contains. I fear that Britain is already dying. Please do not allow this to happen to your great nation.

Question: Why Must We Be Silent in the Face of Such Outrages?
Answer: Because you know nothing. And, as Ludwig Wittgenstein brilliantly stated, Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

His article is a composition of mistakes, inaccuracies and oversimplifications it would manage to sound funny in at least 5 different graduate departments.

So.. let's see who's this guy.

Part-time journalist who write on such websites as

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org :eek:

and

http://www.westernresistance.com/ :D

in the latter using the name of a notorious crusades supporter as pseudonym.

Family Security Matters!?? Western Resistance??!! He allegedly says he's a published writer, although Amazon.com doesn't show any trace of him...

Why don't these people go back to school and try to learn something before feeling they understand anything about world politics and comparative religious studies?
 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
1,755
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
They might ask the same about "Christian" Cruise Missiles, Gunships, and other Military tools.

Oh, boy... here we go again....

If I'm not mistaken, "Christian" Cruise missiles have killed a handful of people when compared to the crude tactics employed in Iraq and Darfur.

Perhaps I should follow your lead and say "Islamic" suicide vests, trucks, and swords -- what do you think?

Seriously though, since people like to point out the violent nature of Christians 1000 years ago, perhaps the US should just pull out and let them have a good old fashion religious war once and for all so they can figure out that such wars are not worth it -- kinda like the 30 years war.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
Deuteronomy:
13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
When to Stone Your Whole Family
13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

Leviticus:
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Exodus:
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

2 Chronicles:
15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

These rules do not necessarily apply if they are not in the spirit or teachings of the New Covenant (Everlasting Covenant) with the Christian Messiah. In fact, Jesus himself did not advocate stoning to death of an impure woman, which contradicted the Old Testament....he also was not against drinking alcohol and eating pork. Jesus also advocated following the secular laws of the city in which you live.

Nice try though. It happens every couple of threads that someone try to use the Old Testament to vilify Christians. The Christians go by the New Testament. The Old Testamnet and Covenant with yah was superceded, with the coming of their Messiah.

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,291
5,867
126
Originally posted by: maluckey
Deuteronomy:
13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
When to Stone Your Whole Family
13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

Leviticus:
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Exodus:
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

2 Chronicles:
15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

These rules do not necessarily apply if they are not in the spirit or teachings of the New Covenant (Everlasting Covenant) with the Christian Messiah. In fact, Jesus himself did not advocate stoning to death of an impure woman, which contradicted the Old Testament....he also was not against drinking alcohol and eating pork. Jesus also advocated following the secular laws of the city in which you live.

Nice try though. It happens every couple of threads that someone try to use the Old Testament to vilify Christians. The Christians go by the New Testament. The Old Testamnet and Covenant with yah was superceded, with the coming of their Messiah.

Yet that's the point in response to various quotes from the Koran that get thrown into every hateful diatribe.
 

Jiggz

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2001
4,329
0
76
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
So just what kind of credentials must one have to have an opinion on world affairs?
Why is it that many of us have no problem picking stories from the AP, NYTimes, Reuters, The Washington Post; outlets that have a shred of credibility and journalistic integrity behind them.

Yet we're treated to an editorial from FamilySecurityMatters.org. A quick scan of their home page only shows stories that align towards a particular agenda.

Example Headlines:

The Big White Lie: Are partisan political leftists prone to spreading outright falsehoods as a calculated policy tool?

American Troops Are Winning Over Journalists, One Heart, One Mind, and One Life at a Time: FSM Contributing Editor Jeff Emanuel reports directly from the war zone in this, the first of a series of dispatches, from Iraq!

What Do They Know and Why Don?t They Know It: Anyone who has been keeping abreast of current activities in Congress might wonder if our elected representatives really understand the philosophy underlying our Founders? intentions for this nation.

Battle to the Death: In a stunning display of fear (for the loss of their own sound bites), the Senate yesterday ignominiously voted to surrender to a ruthless enemy of the United States.
This website handpicks GWB's turds and polishes them for our conservative forum junkies to feed on.

Big newspaper? Big Magazines? Big credibility? Credibility for what? For not offending Muslims? For if they offend the Muslims they have too big to lose? Nowadays, Western Journalism in the big league is not about accuracy anymore, it's about $$$. So we started relying on the "smaller printed news", for they are not scared to lose $$$ or scared to shed the facts!
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Some people, like the Author of this "article", should STFU, because they add nothing constructive to the issue. Like it or not Islam is here and will continue to exist. In the past these things didn't happen, perhaps it's time to open your eyes and see that there's more to recent events then that "those people are evil".

Are you claiming that people in the past did not perform abhorrent activites in the name of Islam? If so, you are a history revisionist on par of a Holocaust denier.
 

Jiggz

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2001
4,329
0
76
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Did the author make up the facts about the story? Maybe the mainstream media is afraid of being hunted down and beheaded. Or maybe the media can't bring itself to agree with Bush on the simple fact that we are at war with radical islam. Probably both but you decide how much those determined their inability to point out the radical nature of the islamic extremists.
Don't fool yourself into thinking Bush ever stated he's at war with any kind of Islam.

He has better speech writers than that.

Besides, you can add up all the Christians that Islamic terrorists have killed in the last 5 years, and that total would be surpassed in two days by the number of Muslims killed by Islamic terrorists.

Looks like they are taking care of the problem internally. Do you guys really have that big of a hard-on for another trillion dollar war/occupation with the bodies of our dead soldiers paving the way?

Better yet, I have yet to see one of you show evidence of exactly how prevalent fundamentalism is in Islam. How many people? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000? What percentage is that of Islam as a whole? This country is in for a sad future if you guys think war will lead to your salvation when you're dealing with a religion that has 1.4 billion (and growing) followers worldwide, because they can wage war a lot cheaper than we can. They only needed 19 men and $500,000 to scar our country permanently.

Even if we elected some backwoods, gun-toting 'kill-em-all' cowboy as President who decided to nuke the entire middle east, they'd only need 20 men and $500,000. We could nuke North Africa, and they'd only need 20 men and $500,000. Do you see a pattern here? They'll always have their numbers, and they could really care less (or rather, they're probably cheering us on) as we dig ourselves into a financial and physical hole fighting people who have nothing to do with the enemy.

9/11 was really just the catalyst; Osama is probably more proud of Iraq than anything. We've doubled the body count of 9/11, we're bankrupting our children's future, we're swelling the ranks of terrorists groups, and we've given them a playground to practice in. Bravo!

I don't think there's anything we can show you that will make you believe! What about a one-way ticket trip to Baghdad and then let us know what you think is the correct number? We will probably believe your more as soon as you report from Baghdad, than us reporting to you!
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,291
5,867
126
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: sandorski
Some people, like the Author of this "article", should STFU, because they add nothing constructive to the issue. Like it or not Islam is here and will continue to exist. In the past these things didn't happen, perhaps it's time to open your eyes and see that there's more to recent events then that "those people are evil".

Are you claiming that people in the past did not perform abhorrent activites in the name of Islam? If so, you are a history revisionist on par of a Holocaust denier.

No, I'm not claiming that.
 

ElDonAntonio

Senior member
Aug 4, 2001
967
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Simple fact is a alot of Muslims want Western civilization dead. And its not just a few whackjobs hiding in caves, its ENTIRE COUNTRIES. Iran, Syria, Palestine. To a lesser extent Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Since when did Iran or Syria ever attack the western world? Looks more to me like the western world is throwing empty accusations around (WMD!) and attacking them. As for Palestinians, those people would simply want to LIVE, as in having more than a glass of water per day per person while their invaders enjoy their swimming pools, not having their homes bulldozed and having to rot in refugee camps, and finally have some land called their own instead of being dispossessed all the time.

As for Pakistan, it's doing what it can to help the US, and Afghanistan, the government has been placed by the US, so you can't really blame it for anything.

You should really think a bit before expressing such racist views.
 

MagicConch

Golden Member
Apr 7, 2005
1,239
1
0
Originally posted by: ElDonAntonio
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Simple fact is a alot of Muslims want Western civilization dead. And its not just a few whackjobs hiding in caves, its ENTIRE COUNTRIES. Iran, Syria, Palestine. To a lesser extent Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Since when did Iran or Syria ever attack the western world? Looks more to me like the western world is throwing empty accusations around (WMD!) and attacking them. As for Palestinians, those people would simply want to LIVE, as in having more than a glass of water per day per person while their invaders enjoy their swimming pools, not having their homes bulldozed and having to rot in refugee camps, and finally have some land called their own instead of being dispossessed all the time.

As for Pakistan, it's doing what it can to help the US, and Afghanistan, the government has been placed by the US, so you can't really blame it for anything.

You should really think a bit before expressing such racist views.

I think the way they attack is different. They will never do a complete assault on us, they could never win. Instead it's kidnapping, hostage situations, which they have done and continue to do. Would we ever kidnap a boat of iranians, put them into hostage situation, them send them back to iran as an easter present? that's pretty messed up. Pakistan imo is not completely represented by the face we see internationally. It's pretty well know there is support for Taliban in pakistan. i do agree on the Palestinians, if they were jewish and israel was muslim and all the behavior was the same, world would be outraged.

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,291
5,867
126
Originally posted by: MagicConch
Originally posted by: ElDonAntonio
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Simple fact is a alot of Muslims want Western civilization dead. And its not just a few whackjobs hiding in caves, its ENTIRE COUNTRIES. Iran, Syria, Palestine. To a lesser extent Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Since when did Iran or Syria ever attack the western world? Looks more to me like the western world is throwing empty accusations around (WMD!) and attacking them. As for Palestinians, those people would simply want to LIVE, as in having more than a glass of water per day per person while their invaders enjoy their swimming pools, not having their homes bulldozed and having to rot in refugee camps, and finally have some land called their own instead of being dispossessed all the time.

As for Pakistan, it's doing what it can to help the US, and Afghanistan, the government has been placed by the US, so you can't really blame it for anything.

You should really think a bit before expressing such racist views.

I think the way they attack is different. They will never do a complete assault on us, they could never win. Instead it's kidnapping, hostage situations, which they have done and continue to do. Would we ever kidnap a boat of iranians, put them into hostage situation, them send them back to iran as an easter present? that's pretty messed up. Pakistan imo is not completely represented by the face we see internationally. It's pretty well know there is support for Taliban in pakistan. i do agree on the Palestinians, if they were jewish and israel was muslim and all the behavior was the same, world would be outraged.

...and they're a threat to Western Civilization?
 

MagicConch

Golden Member
Apr 7, 2005
1,239
1
0
Originally posted by: sandorski

...and they're a threat to Western Civilization?

They're definitely a threat imo (although i don't think loss of western civ is end of the world). they are the fastest growing religion in the world, and not b/c the world is falling in love with it. fundamentally they treat women like objects, a threat to the concept of genedr equality that is important in western civ. they are spreading fast in africa, not b/c they create positive change, but b/c they reinforce existing beliefs re: women and culture that have done little to help much of the continent forward. violence is an acceptable engine for the propagation in their culture, but the same could be said for christianity in past centuries i guess. they encourage large families in order to help with it's propagation, and using yourself as a bomb means going straight to heaven in many of these cultures, which means that the methodology is large, disposable army capable of infiltrating and causing terrot in every non-homogonous country, most of which are western countries. in that regard, there is little equivalent in any other culture today but the tamil tigers that i can think of. you put both of these together it means we either wall ourselves up which makes no sense since diversity is our strength, or face a greater and greater potential threat from the rapidly increasing # of people supporting these two ideals together. even if it's a tiny % of islam that supports this western hatred, with the growth of islam, that % gets bigger and bigger in terms of raw #s.
 

ElDonAntonio

Senior member
Aug 4, 2001
967
0
0
Originally posted by: MagicConch
Originally posted by: ElDonAntonio
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Simple fact is a alot of Muslims want Western civilization dead. And its not just a few whackjobs hiding in caves, its ENTIRE COUNTRIES. Iran, Syria, Palestine. To a lesser extent Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Since when did Iran or Syria ever attack the western world? Looks more to me like the western world is throwing empty accusations around (WMD!) and attacking them. As for Palestinians, those people would simply want to LIVE, as in having more than a glass of water per day per person while their invaders enjoy their swimming pools, not having their homes bulldozed and having to rot in refugee camps, and finally have some land called their own instead of being dispossessed all the time.

As for Pakistan, it's doing what it can to help the US, and Afghanistan, the government has been placed by the US, so you can't really blame it for anything.

You should really think a bit before expressing such racist views.

I think the way they attack is different. They will never do a complete assault on us, they could never win. Instead it's kidnapping, hostage situations, which they have done and continue to do. Would we ever kidnap a boat of iranians, put them into hostage situation, them send them back to iran as an easter present? that's pretty messed up. Pakistan imo is not completely represented by the face we see internationally. It's pretty well know there is support for Taliban in pakistan. i do agree on the Palestinians, if they were jewish and israel was muslim and all the behavior was the same, world would be outraged.

True, but the kind of incidents like the British soldiers never happened before all the aggressivity was shown towards Iran. A much too common pattern is the West being extremely aggressive and offensive to eastern countries, and expecting total submission. When the eastern country tries to stand up for itself, they're labeled terrorists, extremists, kidnappers, etc. Plus, western countries are guilty of far more abductions and assasinations, they just manage to do it undercover and low-profile. So I think an easterner could very well argue that the West is a threat to the east and want their destruction, and have a very valid point. Even more so because the west does actually launch full-blown wars with the east and kills civilians by the thousands.

For Pakistan, I don't know the country enough to make any informed argument, but it seems more to me that the government would like to align itself more with the west, while at the same time not provoking internal clashes, civil wars and sectarian violences. It's a tough job.
 

ElDonAntonio

Senior member
Aug 4, 2001
967
0
0
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: sandorski
Some people, like the Author of this "article", should STFU, because they add nothing constructive to the issue. Like it or not Islam is here and will continue to exist. In the past these things didn't happen, perhaps it's time to open your eyes and see that there's more to recent events then that "those people are evil".

Are you claiming that people in the past did not perform abhorrent activites in the name of Islam? If so, you are a history revisionist on par of a Holocaust denier.

The difference though is that simply questioning the scope of the Holocaust now will get you prison time in a very large part of the world. If you want to talk about free speech, check out the Holocaust issue before talking about Islam.
 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
1,755
0
0
Originally posted by: ElDonAntonio
The difference though is that simply questioning the scope of the Holocaust now will get you prison time in a very large part of the world. If you want to talk about free speech, check out the Holocaust issue before talking about Islam.

Ah, yes -- the grand El Dorito -- again making grand statements without any backing; I wouldn't consider 12 countries a "very large part of the world", unless, of course, I was trying to make a false assertion.

Other than that, since when does one have to tackle the issue of holocaust denial speech before saying anything about islam?
The former is regarding a specific event that happened in the past, while the latter is about making observations about things as they are, e.g. Iraq, Sudan, etc, without having to worry about death threats (e.g. Ayaan Hirshi Ali), or getting murdered (Theo Van Gogh).

While discussing holocaust denail laws is valid, you're merely trying to use them as a distraction in this case.

BTW, I'm still waiting for your reply in this thread.