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"Why Marxism is on the rise again"

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/04/the-return-of-marxism

There are several interesting ideas in this story. First, as the economic crisis stays around and worsens, people may move to the left (they might also move to the right, but that's probably a better subject for another thread):

Capitalism is in crisis across the globe – but what on earth is the alternative? Well, what about the musings of a certain 19th-century German philosopher? Yes, Karl Marx is going mainstream – and goodness knows where it will end
There are also some interesting takes on the role of China in the current state of capitalism:

The irony is scarcely wasted on leading Marxist thinkers. "The domination of capitalism globally depends today on the existence of a Chinese Communist party that gives de-localised capitalist enterprises cheap labour to lower prices and deprive workers of the rights of self-organisation," says Jacques Rancière, the French marxist thinker and Professor of Philosophy at the University of Paris VIII. "Happily, it is possible to hope for a world less absurd and more just than today's."
I disagree with this assessment. I actually think western capitalism was thriving when China was not part of the equation. The creative destruction going on in the global economy today due to free trade is what is destabilizing western economies to the point where more and more are questioning capitalism. (That could raise the paranoid thought that the Chinese Communist party's knows this.)

This chimes with something Rancière told me. The professor argued that "one thing about Marxist thought that remains solid is class struggle. The disappearance of our factories, that's to say de-industrialisation of our countries and the outsourcing of industrial work to the countries where labour is less expensive and more docile, what else is this other than an act in the class struggle by the ruling bourgeoisie?"
At some point, are people going to choose a second world existence to a third world one?
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
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Old Marx keeps coming back, thing is he took a simple idea, simple enough for a man like himself -studying human civilization history (granted, the boring part of the workers and slaves -not just kings) and applied the scientific method to find patterns of repeated exploitation throughout history.

Most Conservatives would go batshit if they knew it was Comrade Marx who coined the term Capitalism itself lol
You can still find Marx being taught in the finer learning institutions worldwide. Das Kapital is still 110% relevant although the details of the economics are very 19th century.

The philosophical rhetoric like Communist Manifesto....meh. That's his drinking/partying era. ;)


The vanguard utopian aspect sounds good and all, but little did Marx see drugs and mass media coming into the picture to pacify the workers to capitalism. People had a lot more invested in one another back then just to survive, our modern society has isolated us into submission a lot more then he could have forseen back in the 1860s.

The social revolution marches forward still though. It has adapted and grown with the human race itself since as Marx said "time immemorial" of slaves and serfs to the modern futureless cubicle worker or the USB cable assembler in Malaysia getting paid cents.
 
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lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
12,842
325
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Sorry I did not read the article but what is his factual basis to assert "Maxism is on the rise?"

As a matter of human history, Karl Marx will be there forever with all the other thinkers that have tried to explain our societies.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,306
517
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Former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury (under Ronald Reagan) Paul Craig Roberts (not exactly a socialist) wrote an interesting piece about this a couple years back:

Thought for Labor Day: Conservative Dogma Pulling Marx Out of His Grave

It's the profit only matters mentality that is now more than ever culturally ingrained in upper management today,

Think of it like this, the only part of your body that matters is your head so you feed your head at the expense of the rest of your body which you neglect, you only realize that your head is supported by the rest of the body when your legs collapse from fatigue and neglect, but by then it's too late.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,012
1,360
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Former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury (under Ronald Reagan) Paul Craig Roberts (not exactly a socialist) wrote an interesting piece about this a couple years back:

Thought for Labor Day: Conservative Dogma Pulling Marx Out of His Grave
Excellent article, especially as it came several years before the crash.

I also agree that the OP's underlying premise, that marxism is on the rise, is absolutely silly. Faux media/GOP manipulative alarmism about marxism is certainly on the rise-such alarmism being a much more destructive force in modern USA than marxism ever will be again.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
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571
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Capitalism is economic freedom. If people want an alternative to that, I'm against them.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
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Capitalism is economic freedom. If people want an alternative to that, I'm against them.
Really? So a country like Somalia is your ideal place to live, then?

It's probably the most capitalist nation on the planet at the moment.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
571
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Really? So a country like Somalia is your ideal place to live, then?

It's probably the most capitalist nation on the planet at the moment.
It's amusing to see this example continually blurted out.

Economic freedom is no different than anarchy to you? Is promoting freedom now no different than promoting absolute absence of a laws?

Since I assume you're in favor of political freedom, is Somalia your favorite place to live too? It's probably the most politically free nation on the planet.
 
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Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
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It's amusing to see this example continually blurted out.

Economic freedom is no different than anarchy to you? Is promoting freedom now no different than promoting absolute absence of a laws?
Well, you blurted out a boring cliche, without actually expanding on your point, so don't be surprised when someone asks something like that.

Since I assume you're in favor of political freedom, is Somalia your favorite place to live too? It's probably the most politically free nation on the planet.
Well, I wouldn't say something as pointless as "I am in favour of political freedom, anyone who disagrees is my enemy" in the first place.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
571
126
Well, you blurted out a boring cliche, without actually expanding on your point, so don't be surprised when someone asks something like that.
I stated a fact. Capitalism is economic freedom. It really is that simple. To argue against it is to say by whatever clever rationalization that people can't be trusted to buy and sell what they wish. Now to some extent this claim is true. People ought not be allowed to buy and sell bazookas on the free market. But let's at least regard objections to capitalism as what they are: Objections to economic freedom.

Well, I wouldn't say something as pointless as "I am in favour of political freedom, anyone who disagrees is my enemy" in the first place.
Really. Gosh. I never realized some viewed freedom with such disdain.
 
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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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Really? So a country like Somalia is your ideal place to live, then?

It's probably the most capitalist nation on the planet at the moment.
Only if you define piracy as capitalism. Somehow I think respect for other people's property is an inherent part of capitalism though.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
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Capitalism is economic freedom. If people want an alternative to that, I'm against them.
I stated a fact. Capitalism is economic freedom. It really is that simple. To argue against it is to say by whatever clever rationalization that people can't be trusted to buy and sell what they wish. Now to some extent this claim is true. People ought not be allowed to buy and sell bazookas on the free market. But let's at least regard objections to capitalism as what they are: Objections to economic freedom.
Seems you're against yourself.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
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Only if you define piracy as capitalism. Somehow I think respect for other people's property is an inherent part of capitalism though.
In extremist Libertarian fantasies there's no gubment to enforce laws, it's all about private militias and the barrel of a gun.

No sane person wants pure, unregulated capitalism with melamine-laced Chinese milk and manufacturing plants dumping toxic waste into the air and streams to save a gold-backed dollar or two.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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Life requires a balance.

Capitalism like anything else can be overdone. China is capitalist nowadays. However, look at all of the pollution there. Quality of life requires balance. If you want to breath, or clean water and land that will actually grow consumable food, you need some emphasis on the environment. I think the government in China is just stupid. They are destroying their environment just to make a little more money.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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Personal freedoms are more important than capitalist freedom. For instance the king of England could have been described as a capaitalist when he was trying to extort money from the 13 colonies. Later in the United States we killed all the buffallo as an act of economic freedom. Some could argue that gettting rid of buffalo was a good thing since it cleared the way for farming of the great plains.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
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Only to the extent that I'm against anarchy.
I'll give you that restricting bazookas is probably a restriction on anarchy, but are you actually saying that you're against all economic restrictions that don't involve law and order? Things like minimum wage, SS, Medicare, Medicaid, public schools, workplace safety standards, food safety standards, medical standards, etc.? (This list is WAY longer)
 

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