Why is van's center console still ' vibrating ' despite new tires and balancing ?

[Chuvalo]

Some quick background:

- 2003 Toyota Sienna FWD with about 190,000 miles on it
- got 4 brand new Michelin all season tires installed last week at a reputable tire shop
- all 4 tires were balanced
- van has no signs of any alignment issues when driving
- BEFORE THE NEW TIRES, steering wheel would NEVER vibrate ...rock solid steady at highway speeds
- there was a subtle but discernible " buffeting sound " before the new tires as well
- but....BEFORE THE NEW TIRES, the center console of van would noticeably vibrate at highway speeds


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Questions :

1) Even though I have 4 new balanced tire and my steering wheel remains .rock solid steady at highway speeds ( no steering wheel vibration ), I still have this the center console vibration at highway speeds and .there still is a subtle but discernible " buffeting sound " as well..anyone have any thoughts as to what might be causing this vibration ?

2) My expectation is that if my van doesn't vibrate or make a " buffeting sound " at 30 - 40 mph....it shouldn't have any vibrations or make a " buffeting sound " at 60 - 65 mph...is this a realistic expectation ?



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[Arkaign]

Motor/tranny mounts?

 

[Doppel]

It's unlikely related to the tires or alignment. Some cars simply have vibration issues. I bought a new car last year and almost from day one at certain RPM part of the dash would vibrate. I never bothered to follow up and to be honest I am pretty damn sure it fixed itself. I never notice it now in any case, but vibrations could be caused by a million things. The most obvious question is: do you have coins or anything else kicking around in a holder somewhere?

You can probably stuff a bit of rubber or tissue paper in if you're able to figure out how to stop it with pressing on some part of the console.

 

[Chuvalo]

It's unlikely related to the tires or alignment. Some cars simply have vibration issues. I bought a new car last year and almost from day one at certain RPM part of the dash would vibrate. I never bothered to follow up and to be honest I am pretty damn sure it fixed itself. I never notice it now in any case, but vibrations could be caused by a million things. The most obvious question is: do you have coins or anything else kicking around in a holder somewhere?

You can probably stuff a bit of rubber or tissue paper in if you're able to figure out how to stop it with pressing on some part of the console.

Thanks...it's really perplexing.

If I drive at say 60- 65 mph and put a water bottle on the console holder, the water noticeably shakes in the bottle...YET the steering wheel is steady as can be ...not the slightest vibration of the steering wheel.

Now when I put the water bottle in the beverage holder on the coin holder, it still vibrates, but to a bit of a lesser extent than on the console. Ditto if I put the water bottle on the floor.....still vibrates, but not as bad as on the console ...so i suspect SOME of the problem may simply be the console itself.

And, when I turn the radio off, there is a subtle yet discernible " buffeting sound " you can hear at highway speeds ( actually I'll add that to my first post ) ...so that may be another clue...I don't know.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Maybe it's an odd harmonic vibration from the tires.. might be worth rotating front to back to see if it changes.

Similar stuff happens with motorcycles gauges.. Perfectly balanced wheels, motor running fine, everything is smooth at 60 but at 65 the gauges shake.

You mention buffeting.. Maybe a rubber grommet in the firewall has worked loose and positive pressure from the engine bay is being pushed into the dash?

 

[Chuvalo]

Maybe it's an odd harmonic vibrationrotating front to back from the tires.. might be worth to see if it changes.

Guess i could try rotating the tires, but the tires are brand new ( made in July 2011 ) and just mounted and it's the SAME vibration / sound I was hearing BEFORE i got the new tires.

Similar stuff happens with motorcycles gauges.. Perfectly balanced wheels, motor running fine, everything is smooth at 60 but at 65 the gauges shake.

You mention buffeting.. Maybe a rubber grommet in the firewall has worked loose and positive pressure from the engine bay is being pushed into the dash?

Like I said.......the noise is very much like the wind buffeting sound you'd hear on the highway with your windows down...but again, it's very subtle...but it's there !.

Maybe it is something related to rubber suspension components like bushings as well.... possibly ?????...I know my bushings are beginning to crack and separate a bit but my mechanic said thy're fine ..they don't need to be replaced yet.

Given the noise and appears to be ' speed sensitive ' with all this this ' harmonic vibration / buffeting I'm sensing , must have some correlation to a component that is " speed sensitive " somehow...I think.

 

[Chuvalo]

Motor/tranny mounts?

Good thought.

I guess ' funky ' mounts might trigger that buffeting / speed sensitive sound along with the ' apparent ' harmonic vibration as well ?

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

snip.

 

[nedfunnell]

I wonder about your suspension. Does that van have tie rod ends or ball joints that could need replacement?

 

[Arkaign]

Good thought.

I guess ' funky ' mounts might trigger that buffeting / speed sensitive sound along with the ' apparent ' harmonic vibration as well ?

Yeah I threw that out there as I had a similar experience with an old '95 LeSabre that I drove with very high miles. It was a wonderful car in so many ways, super reliable, surprisingly good fuel economy, but I had weird vibrations that seemed to really come out only in certain situations, and it turned out to be several motor mounts were in various levels of failure.

 

[kornphlake]

I believe the problem is that the van has 190k miles, at that point everything is pretty well worn. Yeah, you can say it's built with toyota quality and it is like new, but it's not. Any car with 190k miles has wear in all the places that will cause a bit of vibration, honestly I'm surprised that's all you notice.

It could be ball joints, tie rods, struts, sway bar bushings, CV joints or a few other items I'm probably forgetting. I'd just live with a little vibration, that van is getting close to being put out to pasture, unless you do the work yourself you'll probably spend 3/4 of what the van is worth trying to eliminate the vibration.

 

[thomsbrain]

Do you get vibration when accelerating?

 

[Viperoni]

One or more of the tires could be out of round.

 

[James3shin]

In addition to the vibrations, do you hear any humming? Could be a bad wheel bearing or unbalanced tire(s) as well.

 

[Chuvalo]

I believe the problem is that the van has 190k miles, at that point everything is pretty well worn. Yeah, you can say it's built with toyota quality and it is like new, but it's not. Any car with 190k miles has wear in all the places that will cause a bit of vibration, honestly I'm surprised that's all you notice.

Perhaps that's all it is...the simple wear & tear that comes about at 190,000 miles ...you might be right.

It could be ball joints, tie rods, struts, sway bar bushings, CV joints or a few other items I'm probably forgetting.

My shop ' allegedly ' checks those things every oil change ( I do about 3,000 miles a month and change my oil every 3,000 miles )...so I'm assuming those are in good shape...but perhaps a detailed front end suspension inspection wouldn't be a bad idea nonetheless.

As I said earlier, my front and rear bushings are cracked / starting to separate, although the shop doesn't think they're bad enough that they need replacing....maybe they do.

I'd just live with a little vibration, that van is getting close to being put out to pasture, unless you do the work yourself you'll probably spend 3/4 of what the van is worth trying to eliminate the vibration.

It may get down to that...I was just concerned that any consistent vibration may lead to the premature wear of other parts ( i.e those suspension ones you mentioned ) and possibly early wear on the new tires etc.

 

[Chuvalo]

In addition to the vibrations, do you hear any humming?

Again, it's a very subtle noise.

I suppose a combo of humming and a buffeting sound is the best as I can describe it.

And again, I really only notice it at highways speeds more than anything else....and it's subtle.

Could be a bad wheel bearing or unbalanced tire(s) as well.

Another option I suppose, but I don't know if a bad wheel bearing would cause the vibration I'm noticing as well ?

I guess I'm just going to have to have my mechanic go on a test drive with me on the highway to see if he notices the same noise / vibration I do and whether or not he thinks this is ' normal ' for the age and mileage of the van or not.

 

[Chuvalo]

Do you get vibration when accelerating?

Not really.....the subtle vibration / noise really only really comes to my attention once I'm up to cruising speed on the highway.

Just driving around town on city streets ( i.e accelerating etc. ) , I can't say I notice either at all.

 

[hanoverphist]

Good thought.

I guess ' funky ' mounts might trigger that buffeting / speed sensitive sound along with the ' apparent ' harmonic vibration as well ?

my 98 civic had bad mounts and shimmied a ton at 65ish. replaced the lowers and it pretty much stopped. the idle was also much better, it was rough on the dash when all the mounts were shot. only two more and it will have all new mounts, hehe.

 

[Chuvalo]

my 98 civic had bad mounts and shimmied a ton at 65ish. replaced the lowers and it pretty much stopped. the idle was also much better, it was rough on the dash when all the mounts were shot. only two more and it will have all new mounts, hehe.

Thanks...I'll ask my shop to check every mount I've got !!

Replacing engine mounts a big ticket repair ?

 

[hanoverphist]

Thanks...I'll ask my shop to check every mount I've got !!

Replacing engine mounts a big ticket repair ?

pricing depends a lot on the vehicle and the shop. the two lowers cost me 23 and 28 bucks, took about an hour to install both at a shop. so, a shop would likely charge 60-80 each and hopefully just the hour labor. i had access to my friends shop, so it cost me the parts and a pizza for using the lift. the top mount for my car is 38 bucks or so, and the trans mount was a bit under that. im sure a toyota sienna will have mounts that cost around 100 tho, just because its newer.