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Why is there so much hate for guns?

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,812
192
106
It seems that after sandy hook major media sites focus on gun control, and how bad guns are.

For example, huffpost post has been posting articles titled "just another day in America", followed by how many people have been killed with guns.

Why is the media focusing on the tool rather then the people who commit the crime?

There is a report that came out of Illinois saying the state is not enforcing gun laws. If a convicted felon is caught with a gun, its an automatic federal crime, but those criminals are not being prosecuted.

The number of mass shootings have gone up in the past few years. Instead of asking why, major news outlets are focusing on gun.

The majority of mass shooters are young men, but nobody is asking what is driving young men to commit such heinous acts of violence.

Instead of seeing serial killers spread their victims out over a decade, are we seeing a trend of killing lots of victims in a short period of time?

Could people like the sandy hook shooter have been the next jeffrey dahmer?

Shouldn't we be looking at what is driving these young men to acts of violence?

Is it being bullied, a lose of hope, financial problems,,, or something else?
 
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
4
0
The use of a weapon allows a exponential non equalizer in an argument/conflict.

Voids the concept of fair play.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,388
1,013
126
Because many gun control advocates have never seen, touched, used, or perhaps even known someone who owns a firearm so they're mysterious. Which in turn means the reptilian part of their medulla oblongata kicks in and they presume it must be dangerous and to be avoided at all costs, instead of just as another tool like an axe, fire, or a wheel.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
10,898
1,042
126
Because guns are not tools, they are weapons. Their use, purpose, reason for existing is to be a weapon. Other things that can be used as weapons have a non-violent purpose behind them. Knives, hammers, axes, cars all are tools with a purpose that can also if used improperly kill a person. Guns proper use is to kill something.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,083
490
126
Because guns are not tools, they are weapons. Their use, purpose, reason for existing is to be a weapon. Other things that can be used as weapons have a non-violent purpose behind them. Knives, hammers, axes, cars all are tools with a purpose that can also if used improperly kill a person. Guns proper use is to kill something.
I use my guns for target shooting. I must had missed the proper use of my weapon while discussing its merits with the sales person.
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,388
1,013
126
Because guns are not tools, they are weapons. Their use, purpose, reason for existing is to be a weapon. Other things that can be used as weapons have a non-violent purpose behind them. Knives, hammers, axes, cars all are tools with a purpose that can also if used improperly kill a person. Guns proper use is to kill something.
Sometimes that's exactly the task at hand, whether the killing is of dangerous animals or a paper target. If I were travelling around in Alaska and needed protection from bears, should I instead use a knife for this purpose since I could also use it for whittling a duck decoy?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,812
192
106
The use of a weapon allows a exponential non equalizer in an argument/conflict.

Voids the concept of fair play.
Because guns are not tools, they are weapons. Their use, purpose, reason for existing is to be a weapon. Other things that can be used as weapons have a non-violent purpose behind them. Knives, hammers, axes, cars all are tools with a purpose that can also if used improperly kill a person. Guns proper use is to kill something.
Maybe its because reporters are no longer willing to do actual research? And those that are willing to do it are working for liberal news organizations?

One of the common trend I see in mass shooting is the shooter felt cheated, or bullied. Sandy hook, virginia tech and columbine shooting were done by angry, young, men.

If we want to improve society as a whole, shouldn't we be looking at the situations that drove the shooter to do what they did?
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,941
126
I use my guns for target shooting. I must had missed the proper use of my weapon while discussing its merits with the sales person.
I prefer other toys to play with, but I understand why you'd like guns.
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
1
0
Nobody hates guns for crying out loud, what they hate and are concerned about is the wrong people getting ahold of them. I don't understand what the big deal is.. do a thorough national background check prior to allowing someone to own a gun. An individual can easily do this for a criminal check and pay 6 bucks for an online back ground check and have results in minutes.

In addition anyone who has been adjudicated by a court or judge to be forced into a mental hospital should be on some private list of mental instability, something that can be covered by a background check that shows this. This does not mean that someone who had a bout with depression, or has ADHD and but has demonstrated responsibleness with guns are barred from getting one, only those that have been involuntarily committed. I watched this morning on Morning Joe where they met with the V.P. and he explained more thoroughly about it. He said they are not looking to bar anyone who has minor mental health issues, only those that have serious mental health issues and have been adjudicated and involuntarily committed.

I am strongly in favor of this. After listening to him this morning, they are not taking any ones guns away.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,812
192
106
Nobody hates guns for crying out loud, what they hate and are concerned about is the wrong people getting ahold of them. I don't understand what the big deal is.. do a thorough national background check prior to allowing someone to own a gun. An individual can easily do this for a criminal check and pay 6 bucks for an online back ground check and have results in minutes.
Do you think the local crack dealer is going to do a background check?

Or is he going to trade a couple of rocks for a pistol?
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
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Lack of education and experience with the product in question. I was terrified of guns growing up because I had been trained to be terrified of guns; I was told that they would go off if I looked at them and they would kill everything I loved. And then I had some hands-on experience and education about real firearms, how they worked, how to properly handle them, take them apart, put them together, etc. And I realized that guns aren't scary, in and of themselves; it's the people behind the gun who determine its use. But without that education and experience, I'd still be cowering under my bed at the thought of guns and all the terrible things they do to the world.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
10,898
1,042
126
Sometimes that's exactly the task at hand, whether the killing is of dangerous animals or a paper target. If I were travelling around in Alaska and needed protection from bears, should I instead use a knife for this purpose since I could also use it for whittling a duck decoy?
I'm not saying that's not true. Sometimes it is indeed the task at hand. I myself don't hunt and don't think I could bring myself to kill an animal. I also don't think I could bring myself to use a gun knowing it could take a human life if I did, even in defense. But that's me. However, people need to understand that guns are supposed to take a life, whether that be an animal life in hunting, a human life in defense, a human life in war, whatever, they're supposed to take a life. I think too many people don't really think about the possibility of taking a life and it's a rush to own a gun. They treat it like a toy. It's this culture of guns as toys and this glorification of gun violence that makes us such a high gun violence society.

And I'm not blaming violent movies, tv, or video games. I watch all those and enjoy them all. However I am also smarter than 99.996% of society and consider my actions more carefully. And I'm also not blaming guns themselves as the cause. It's how we treat and think of guns that's the problem.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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Well most people are not raised around guns and only see them in movie or war history used to kill people. That would be my guess. It makes the job of taking life very easy.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,941
126
Oh you mean we all have our own interests?
Indeed.

Theoretically, we all share one interest/hobby here, but others are to each their own. Mine is a strategy game with friends, and yours is guns. We all have our toys.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
And they are toys. It's not some sacred blah blah. It's a toy. Like legos.
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
1
0
Do you think the local crack dealer is going to do a background check?

Or is he going to trade a couple of rocks for a pistol?
Look we all know that we can't keep all criminals from getting guns, but we do need to do something. We cannot just do nothing, as I said.

Using this as an excuse to not do anything is foolish and reckless in my opinion. There are a lot of laws on the books to protect people that can be gotten around to a certain extent, but for the most part they do work as intended.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,812
192
106
Look we all know that we can't keep all criminals from getting guns, but we do need to do something. We cannot just do nothing, as I said.
We need to do three things:

1 - Find out what is making young men go on shooting sprees.

2 - Deal with gang violence, treat them as if they were terrorist.

3 - Fix our broken criminal justice system

EDIT

My brother is a cop, there are some repeat offenders that he is on a first name basis with. Some of the guys, my brother pulls up, opens the door to the cop car, and the guy gets in.

What kind of justice system is that? Its not a justice system, its a revolving door system.

Where does the majority of gun violence come from? Its not from school shootings, its from drug and gang related violence.
 
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Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
1
0
We need to do three things:

1 - Find out what is making young men go on shooting sprees.

We already know the reasons for a lot of these occurrences, and it has been demonstrated that the mass murders are due to mostly mentally ill individuals. So yes, in addition to thorough gun back ground checks we need to put funding back into mental health services, and stop shutting down mental health facilities.

2 - Deal with gang violence, treat them as if they were terrorist.

True, but that will take a long fucking time, and in the mean time crazy people are still going out and shooting people in schools and public places, a thorough gun background check and a mental health record of those who have known serious mental health issues, and who have been adjuticated will at least help curb this which can be put into action immediately. That is at least doing something now. Not perfect, but certainly will help tremendously to curb some of this. Instead of us looking to wait years and years to changing a systemic behavior problem that is so complex that it will take years, and we sit on our hands doing nothing in the mean time.

3 - Fix our broken criminal justice system
Fixing the broken criminal system is not something that is going to happen anytime soon. But I agree also that we need to start really rehabilitating people and stop with the "punishments" and "retribution" process of jails and prisons that cause so many non violent offenders to get sucked up into a life of perpetual crime. But again, that doesn't put anything into place now to at least curtail what has been happening in our schools and public places with regard to mentally whacked individuals getting their hands on a gun, or people with a criminal record. Yes, some people who have only a misdemeanor charge of assault can still buy a gun legally, walk right into a gun store pass a back ground check, and or buy online to an anonymous seller. We need to stop that. We need to do something now.
 

desertdweller

Senior member
Jan 6, 2001
588
0
0
Look we all know that we can't keep all criminals from getting guns, but we do need to do something. We cannot just do nothing, as I said.

Using this as an excuse to not do anything is foolish and reckless in my opinion. There are a lot of laws on the books to protect people that can be gotten around to a certain extent, but for the most part they do work as intended.
If you really, really want something done, then you guys need to start working on second amendment changes and then confiscation. Until then, you're going to have to accept that there will continue to be mass killings and there will continue to be firearm related murders and there will continue to be firearm related accidental deaths. Period.

There is not one single one of those new laws that would have stopped the Sandy Hook shooting. You think 10 round magazine limits will stop them? Well, they haven't in the past. The Luby's shooter reloaded his ten round magazines 17 times and fired over 170 bullets. Didn't even slow him down. See also, Columbine.... By the way one of the Columbine shooters preferred weapon was a shot gun. Which means it carried less than ten rounds....

The Sandy Hook shooter didn't even own the guns he used. He shot his mother in the head before taking her guns.... He fired over 150 bullets to kill less than thirty people. Some of the magazines they found still had fifteen or more bullets in them.

Background checks are good. The rest is just fluff to make people feel better.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,388
1,013
126
I'm not saying that's not true. Sometimes it is indeed the task at hand. I myself don't hunt and don't think I could bring myself to kill an animal. I also don't think I could bring myself to use a gun knowing it could take a human life if I did, even in defense. But that's me. However, people need to understand that guns are supposed to take a life, whether that be an animal life in hunting, a human life in defense, a human life in war, whatever, they're supposed to take a life. I think too many people don't really think about the possibility of taking a life and it's a rush to own a gun. They treat it like a toy. It's this culture of guns as toys and this glorification of gun violence that makes us such a high gun violence society.

And I'm not blaming violent movies, tv, or video games. I watch all those and enjoy them all. However I am also smarter than 99.996% of society and consider my actions more carefully. And I'm also not blaming guns themselves as the cause. It's how we treat and think of guns that's the problem.
Sounds like you have a healthy respect for firearms. And you're right, some do treat them like toys or have an improper obsession with them instead of with a proper detachment. Firearms owners can sometimes become blasé about them and not realize how they do have the ability to frighten others. For example, I never really handled firearms until I joined the military, then spent the next 11 years with them being constantly with me - you develop a different attitude about firearms when your M4 carbine is your pillow for months at a time.

By the same token, I don't quite understand why gun control advocates would be completely comfortable about me having firearms while in uniform, but not the moment I went home to my off-base home at the end of the day. At 4:59PM, you're fine with me using Mk 19 grenade launcher and .50cal machine gun, but at 5:01PM you're worried that I might pick up my personally-owned .22LR pistol and go the shooting range in my spare time? Did the policeman on patrol with his Glock 19 yesterday become a threat to you with the same weapon after his retirement from the force this morning?
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
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Because many people are idiots and cowards and are very ignorant. Most gun control advocates have no knowledge of guns yet seek to impose their will on everyone else.

If I dont like a gun I wont buy one but if a liberal doesn't like guns they want to ban guns.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
We need to do three things:

1 - Find out what is making young men go on shooting sprees.

2 - Deal with gang violence, treat them as if they were terrorist.

3 - Fix our broken criminal justice system
.
This reminds me of the old liberal arguments that until you got to the root causes of crime like poverty and inequality, there was nothing that could be done to reduce it.

I think Guiliani proved them wrong.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,812
192
106
2 - Deal with gang violence, treat them as if they were terrorist.

True, but that will take a long fucking time, and in the mean time crazy people are still going out and shooting people in schools and public places, a thorough gun background check and a mental health record of those who have known serious mental health issues, and who have been adjuticated will at least help curb this which can be put into action immediately. That is at least doing something now. Not perfect, but certainly will help tremendously to curb some of this. Instead of us looking to wait years and years to changing a systemic behavior problem that is so complex that it will take years, and we sit on our hands doing nothing in the mean time.
Regan started his "war on drugs" back in the 1980s. What has happened in the past 3 decades? If anything the drug problem has gotten worse.

If society can not even keep kids away from bath salts, how are we supposed to do something about meth and crack.

The root cause of gun violence is not the guns. That is common sense. So why do the major news outlets focus only on the guns?

The major news media is playing this gun hatred stuff that if we just do something about guns, then gun deaths will go away.

If the government would just do something about crack and meth, the drug problem would just go away.

In the past 2 months there have been more local deaths due to drinking and driving, and texting and driving then gun related deaths.
 

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