Why is the US ranked 37th for quality of health care?

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13


http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

World Health Organization

Can you believe it? We're BELOW Costa Rica!!!


http://www.who.int/whr/2000/me...ntre/press_release/en/
In designing the framework for health system performance, WHO broke new methodological ground, employing a technique not previously used for health systems. It compares each country's system to what the experts estimate to be the upper limit of what can be done with the level of resources available in that country. It also measures what each country's system has accomplished in comparison with those of other countries.

WHO's assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system's financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).

"We have created a new tool to help us measure performance," says Dr Murray. "As we develop it further and strengthen the raw data used for these measures in the years to come, we believe this will be an increasingly useful tool for governments in improving their own health systems."

Other findings in the annual WHO report include:

* In Europe, health systems in Mediterranean countries such as France, Italy and Spain are rated higher than others in the continent. Norway is the highest Scandinavian nation, at 11th .
* Colombia, Chile, Costa Rica and Cuba are rated highest among the Latin American nations ? 22nd, 33rd, 36th and 39th in the world, respectively.
* Singapore is ranked 6th , the only Asian country apart from Japan in the top 10 countries.
* In the Pacific, Australia ranks 32 nd overall, while New Zealand is 41st .
* In the Middle East and North Africa, many countries rank highly: Oman is in 8 th place overall, Saudi Arabia is ranked 26th , United Arab Emirates 27th and Morocco, 29th.



I stand by my belief that lawyers and lobbyists are destroying this country. The well funded lobbyist is the strongest force is this country. Insurance companies can just pay lobbyists and they can do whatever they want. They can also just pay off the politicians themselves

Well, no wonder we are 37th, it's the WHO with questionable metrics.

that the experts estimate to be the upper limit of what can be done

So it's subjective, not objective.

measures what each country's system has accomplished in comparison with those of other countries.

eh? "measures"? how do they do that? Comparing to these undetailed "measures" to other countries?

and the distribution of the health system's financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).

Aha. So when people have to pay their own costs the country gets a lower ranking? Go figure...


Hunch confirmed... anyone guess what my hunch was?

 

[Toonces]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Hunch confirmed... anyone guess what my hunch was?

That 36 other states are better serviced by their relative healthcare systems than in the US and their citizens, as an aggregate, are happier and healthier?

edit: :shocked:

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: nealh

Originally posted by: Eeezee
I don't have anything else to add. Why are we ranked so poorly, and what can be done to improve this ranking?

What was the source of this information

Always remember almost anything can be manipulated to show what one wants..esp. with any type of stats.

Yes we have a large uninsured population in this country...but do you have any idea what resources are available to the uninsured..may counties in our states have healthplans for free, many physician discount or give away free care

Many of our so called uninsured would rather buy cigs, cellphones, beer, big screen TVs etc...I see plenty of people who are young who feel they have no need for insurance. How about those nice young diabetics who do not take care of themsleves at all....then 10yrs later they have a heart attack, stroke, etc . If you think this would not obscure this types of reports you are naive. This is just one disease where patients are non-compliant. In our country we have lost our sense of personal responsibility and want to blame everyone else. Many of our problems are from wanting what we cant have and we will spend to get it even if we will never be able to afford.


This kind of ranking are for the most part BS

I have to say, your anecdotal evidence is really convincing when compared against overwhelming statistical observation :roll:

The problems with our health care system is that very few people on either side of the debate are even remotely interested in improving the system, as your cookie-cutter conservative diatribe so appropriately demonstrated. Health care in this country has become a political football, with both sides trying as hard as they possibly can to use it as a club to beat the other guys into submission.

Ask a conservative about health care, and almost without fail you will get an answer blaming lawyers, people too "lazy" to get health care, or that how it's not really a problem since a lot of people CHOOSE not to have care. Ask a liberal, and it will be the evil HMOs, or greedy drug companies, or jackass politicians. At least liberals acknowledge that problems exist, but nobody seems interested in making things better.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: tenshodo13


http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

World Health Organization

Can you believe it? We're BELOW Costa Rica!!!


http://www.who.int/whr/2000/me...ntre/press_release/en/
In designing the framework for health system performance, WHO broke new methodological ground, employing a technique not previously used for health systems. It compares each country's system to what the experts estimate to be the upper limit of what can be done with the level of resources available in that country. It also measures what each country's system has accomplished in comparison with those of other countries.

WHO's assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system's financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).

"We have created a new tool to help us measure performance," says Dr Murray. "As we develop it further and strengthen the raw data used for these measures in the years to come, we believe this will be an increasingly useful tool for governments in improving their own health systems."

Other findings in the annual WHO report include:

* In Europe, health systems in Mediterranean countries such as France, Italy and Spain are rated higher than others in the continent. Norway is the highest Scandinavian nation, at 11th .
* Colombia, Chile, Costa Rica and Cuba are rated highest among the Latin American nations ? 22nd, 33rd, 36th and 39th in the world, respectively.
* Singapore is ranked 6th , the only Asian country apart from Japan in the top 10 countries.
* In the Pacific, Australia ranks 32 nd overall, while New Zealand is 41st .
* In the Middle East and North Africa, many countries rank highly: Oman is in 8 th place overall, Saudi Arabia is ranked 26th , United Arab Emirates 27th and Morocco, 29th.



I stand by my belief that lawyers and lobbyists are destroying this country. The well funded lobbyist is the strongest force is this country. Insurance companies can just pay lobbyists and they can do whatever they want. They can also just pay off the politicians themselves

Well, no wonder we are 37th, it's the WHO with questionable metrics.

that the experts estimate to be the upper limit of what can be done

So it's subjective, not objective.

measures what each country's system has accomplished in comparison with those of other countries.

eh? "measures"? how do they do that? Comparing to these undetailed "measures" to other countries?

and the distribution of the health system's financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).

Aha. So when people have to pay their own costs the country gets a lower ranking? Go figure...


Hunch confirmed... anyone guess what my hunch was?

Don't worry about this guy ^^ He would rather spend 500 billion blowing up Iraqis than helping his own people ;-)

Admit it

 

[Slew Foot]

Ted Kennedy had his brain surgery where?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Ted Kennedy had his brain surgery where?

I don't think very many people would disagree that the best health care available in the US is among the best in the world, the problem is that folks who aren't United States Senators often have trouble getting access to it. Saying US health care is bad is a bit of a misdirection...health care in the US is very good, for some people.

And that's the problem. Top of the line drugs, new procedures, these are things our doctors and health industry are very good at. But for average health care needs, people are in a lot worse shape on average than in a country with readily available health care.

I have good insurance, Ted Kennedy has good insurance, you probably have good insurance. For those of us that fall into that category, health care in the US is fine. If something happens to me tomorrow and I need a doctor, I'm confident I'll get the treatment I need. Of course if I DIDN'T have insurance, I'd be totally and completely fucked...so it sort of averages out, don't you think?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Ted Kennedy had his brain surgery where?

On his foot?

 

[babylon5]

Think you have health insurance?

Health insurer tied bonuses to dropping sick policyholders

"One of the state's largest health insurers set goals and paid bonuses based in part on how many individual policyholders were dropped and how much money was saved"

LINK

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: babylon5
Think you have health insurance?

Health insurer tied bonuses to dropping sick policyholders

"One of the state's largest health insurers set goals and paid bonuses based in part on how many individual policyholders were dropped and how much money was saved"

LINK

Made me think of the Matt Damon movie "The Rainmaker" and the insurance company -Great Benefit - lol

"the truth is stranger than fiction"

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
If I'm not mistaken, our costs for the healthcare system basically pays for all the health research for the rest of the world. So America is footing the bill for all the technological health advances we have had, while the rest of the world enjoys cheap healthcare at our cost. I could be wrong though.

you are wrong

 

[dawp]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: babylon5
Think you have health insurance?

Health insurer tied bonuses to dropping sick policyholders

"One of the state's largest health insurers set goals and paid bonuses based in part on how many individual policyholders were dropped and how much money was saved"

LINK

Made me think of the Matt Damon movie "The Rainmaker" and the insurance company -Great Benefit - lol

"the truth is stranger than fiction"

There was a case not too long ago that a woman won when her insurance company ended her coverage in the middle of her cancer treatment, forcing her to go to the state to finish it. she won a multimillion dollar settlement against her former insurer.

I think we need to get the for profit incentive out of the health insurance system, or shit can it completely.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: nealh

Originally posted by: Eeezee
I don't have anything else to add. Why are we ranked so poorly, and what can be done to improve this ranking?

What was the source of this information

Always remember almost anything can be manipulated to show what one wants..esp. with any type of stats.

Yes we have a large uninsured population in this country...but do you have any idea what resources are available to the uninsured..may counties in our states have healthplans for free, many physician discount or give away free care

Many of our so called uninsured would rather buy cigs, cellphones, beer, big screen TVs etc...I see plenty of people who are young who feel they have no need for insurance. How about those nice young diabetics who do not take care of themsleves at all....then 10yrs later they have a heart attack, stroke, etc . If you think this would not obscure this types of reports you are naive. This is just one disease where patients are non-compliant. In our country we have lost our sense of personal responsibility and want to blame everyone else. Many of our problems are from wanting what we cant have and we will spend to get it even if we will never be able to afford.


This kind of ranking are for the most part BS

It was based off of a WHO study that was concentrated primarily on quality of care. Lack of insurance does not indicate quality of care, rather a complete lack of service.

The point is that the average American (who is covered with a modest health insurance plan) gets worse service than what is offered in many countries.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Ted Kennedy had his brain surgery where?

What you're saying is that health care in the US is outstanding if you have millions of dollars. That's not good enough. Health care should be great no matter what family you were born into.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: nealh

Originally posted by: Eeezee
I don't have anything else to add. Why are we ranked so poorly, and what can be done to improve this ranking?

What was the source of this information

Always remember almost anything can be manipulated to show what one wants..esp. with any type of stats.

Yes we have a large uninsured population in this country...but do you have any idea what resources are available to the uninsured..may counties in our states have healthplans for free, many physician discount or give away free care

Many of our so called uninsured would rather buy cigs, cellphones, beer, big screen TVs etc...I see plenty of people who are young who feel they have no need for insurance. How about those nice young diabetics who do not take care of themsleves at all....then 10yrs later they have a heart attack, stroke, etc . If you think this would not obscure this types of reports you are naive. This is just one disease where patients are non-compliant. In our country we have lost our sense of personal responsibility and want to blame everyone else. Many of our problems are from wanting what we cant have and we will spend to get it even if we will never be able to afford.


This kind of ranking are for the most part BS

I have to say, your anecdotal evidence is really convincing when compared against overwhelming statistical observation :roll:

The problems with our health care system is that very few people on either side of the debate are even remotely interested in improving the system, as your cookie-cutter conservative diatribe so appropriately demonstrated. Health care in this country has become a political football, with both sides trying as hard as they possibly can to use it as a club to beat the other guys into submission.

Ask a conservative about health care, and almost without fail you will get an answer blaming lawyers, people too "lazy" to get health care, or that how it's not really a problem since a lot of people CHOOSE not to have care. Ask a liberal, and it will be the evil HMOs, or greedy drug companies, or jackass politicians. At least liberals acknowledge that problems exist, but nobody seems interested in making things better.

We do have a solution though! Scrap the current scam that is medical insurance. That shit clearly does not work. The HMO was invented by a very demented son of a bitch. Scrap Medicaid while you're at it.

Have the government set up a tiered system that withdraws money from your paycheck. You pay as little as $0 - no service. If you get sick, you pay any medical bills yourself. Create a number of tiers, just like any insurance company, only in this scenario the government isn't hiring people to cut coverage for sick people. All public hospitals will be required to conform to the public insurance standards. Private hospitals can deal with private insurance firms, which will satisfy all of the Republicans who get a stiffy for blowing huge wads of cash.

Place caps on how much public hospitals will pay pharm companies. The rest of the world has already done this. It's supply and demand economics; if you charge too much, nobody buys your drugs. Pharm companies make insane profits (profit, as in after R&D expenses). The only reason they get away with it is because insurance companies are willing to pay whatever is asked. Instead, enforce a policy that requires pharm companies to offer drugs at reasonable prices.

Something like health care and quality of life should NOT be bought and sold in a free market. Health should not be treated as a product in a free market; it's not a god damn vacuum cleaner. Health is more like a utility, something that should be accessible to everyone at an affordable price. Hell, it should be even more accessible than that.

In addition to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we are entitled to life and part of that is health care!

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: babylon5
Think you have health insurance?

Health insurer tied bonuses to dropping sick policyholders

"One of the state's largest health insurers set goals and paid bonuses based in part on how many individual policyholders were dropped and how much money was saved"

LINK

Get your health insurance thru your workplace.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
We do have a solution though! Scrap the current scam that is medical insurance. That shit clearly does not work. The HMO was invented by a very demented son of a bitch. Scrap Medicaid while you're at it.

Have the government set up a tiered system that withdraws money from your paycheck. You pay as little as $0 - no service. If you get sick, you pay any medical bills yourself. Create a number of tiers, just like any insurance company, only in this scenario the government isn't hiring people to cut coverage for sick people. All public hospitals will be required to conform to the public insurance standards. Private hospitals can deal with private insurance firms, which will satisfy all of the Republicans who get a stiffy for blowing huge wads of cash.

Place caps on how much public hospitals will pay pharm companies. The rest of the world has already done this. It's supply and demand economics; if you charge too much, nobody buys your drugs. Pharm companies make insane profits (profit, as in after R&D expenses). The only reason they get away with it is because insurance companies are willing to pay whatever is asked. Instead, enforce a policy that requires pharm companies to offer drugs at reasonable prices.

Something like health care and quality of life should NOT be bought and sold in a free market. Health should not be treated as a product in a free market; it's not a god damn vacuum cleaner. Health is more like a utility, something that should be accessible to everyone at an affordable price. Hell, it should be even more accessible than that.

In addition to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we are entitled to life and part of that is health care!

Not very well thought out as you don't know all of the facts. Your plan makes health care a product for those that can afford it just like today's current situation. If I don't pay into it the gov't plan, I have to foot everything myself.

And you do realize that drug companies have patent's on their new drugs, so if you don't like the cost of their drug, you don't have an alternative.

Also, realize many Pharma companies go out of business or get bought out by bigger companies b/c they can't afford to fund their research/development b/c it can cost billions of dollars just on a single drug that more than likely won't ever make it to market.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
If I'm not mistaken, our costs for the healthcare system basically pays for all the health research for the rest of the world. So America is footing the bill for all the technological health advances we have had, while the rest of the world enjoys cheap healthcare at our cost. I could be wrong though.

I'm sure many European countries (and japan for that matter) have made many advances as well.

 

[dawp]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: babylon5
Think you have health insurance?

Health insurer tied bonuses to dropping sick policyholders

"One of the state's largest health insurers set goals and paid bonuses based in part on how many individual policyholders were dropped and how much money was saved"

LINK

Get your health insurance thru your workplace.

not all companies offer health insurance,esp. the small ones. and if you own your own business, where do you go? individual policies are expensive and not everyone can afford that.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Just raise taxes by 40%, then health care will be universal and free, eh?

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Ted Kennedy had his brain surgery where?

I don't think very many people would disagree that the best health care available in the US is among the best in the world, the problem is that folks who aren't United States Senators often have trouble getting access to it. Saying US health care is bad is a bit of a misdirection...health care in the US is very good, for some people.

And that's the problem. Top of the line drugs, new procedures, these are things our doctors and health industry are very good at. But for average health care needs, people are in a lot worse shape on average than in a country with readily available health care.

I have good insurance, Ted Kennedy has good insurance, you probably have good insurance. For those of us that fall into that category, health care in the US is fine. If something happens to me tomorrow and I need a doctor, I'm confident I'll get the treatment I need. Of course if I DIDN'T have insurance, I'd be totally and completely fucked...so it sort of averages out, don't you think?

I was just about to point this out. I'm pretty sure in terms of quality of service, US is about as good as it gets if you have the means to pay for it. You rarely see people flying out to Europe or whatever for some radical new procedure, they come here.

What drags us down is no universal coverage, so quality of care for Americans on the average is rather low. I tend to agree with others about priorities, I have some friends who are students full time and work part time, and they pony up the money for health insurance. The plans aren't anything fancy, but it's decent coverage. I think most Americans could afford at least basic coverage, but would rather roll the dice and not spend the money.

I don't know if I'm so much for socialized medicine. I'd be pretty happy with a public/private system similar to what Canada has, seems to offer the best of both worlds -- extremely high quality care for those who can afford it, and very affordable general medical care for the rest of the population. Keep the health industry privatized, but have the government provide monetary assistance to any citizens who need it.

 

[Exterous]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Does it matter? Would you be satisfied if we were 10th or 5th? Why aren't we number one?

The chances of us being number 1 are slim - due to the decentralization of our population in regards to countries like Singapore and France as this has a big impact on our 'response time' that factors into this rating

Heck - even the WHO doesn't think we could be #1 If anyone actually want to go and read the report the WHO also gives a rank to countries called "Attainment" Its the ranking that, based on the factors like population density, ethnic percentages etc, is the highest ranking they think the country can attain. Our attainment ranking is #15.

Yes #37 instead of #15 is bad but its not as bad as #37 instead of #1

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Butterbean

Doctors have been complaining like crazy over paperwork, insurance, law suits etc. We obviously need tort reform even though socialist hustlers like Obama never push it - or any cause of a health care system problem.

I keep seeing this argument made and it baffles me every time. We do not NEED tort reform. The insurance companies would absolutely love it, but it is the single weapon in the arsenal of the individual against the corporation.

There are certainly cases of frivolous lawsuits and those are usually thrown out more often than they are awarded large verdicts.

The real problem comes from hospital staff being overworked and so freaking tired that they mess up or just being incompetent. Whether that be a doctor, nurse or someone filling out the paperwork. Health care systems don't want to add the additional staffing required to make it run smoother because of the cost. Mistakes are made and then their malpractice insurance rates go up because the insurance companies don't like paying what they have agreed to in the client's own insurance guidelines and then they are having to pay additional for a screwup?

If you take away the threat of tort, what fallback does the individual have? Hospitals and insurance companies will simply realize that they can now amputate the wrong leg, forgotten surgical tools inside patients, someone dies or [L=were just dispensed the wrong meds.]http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/pharmacist_malpractice[/L and just do a cost/benefit analysis to find that they can kill a few dozen or hundred patients before it becomes cost prohibitive to them.

Tort reform is a stupid idea that is sold to people by fancy marketing and "victim" stories of poor multi-billion dollar insurance companies having to raise the malpractice insurance rates of poor multi-millionaire doctors because they fucked up.

We don't need tort reform, we need more competency and safe guards at the root level.

 

[Moonbeam]

Next think you know well be 37th in disposing of the dead.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
In addition to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we are entitled to life and part of that is health care!

And you have health care available. But be careful not to attempt to distort your statement into meaning that the gov't needs to provide the care or provide the cost risk mitigation known as INSURANCE. None of those are to be supplied by the gov't.

 

[Zebo]

We have the best and the worst so the mean of 37 makes sense.

Health care everywhere needs to be rationed - we do rationing on the ability to pay for it which sounds most reasonable to me rather than the all get equally marginal care.

The best system is probably a hybrid whereby everyone gets some basic care like say $1000 a year worth and after that the individual should have to purchase a supplemental policy.