Why is religion such a difficult thing?

Arkitech

Diamond Member
Apr 13, 2000
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Pretty much all through out history man has demonstrated a belief in God, but yet despite the fact that many people believe in a God how to worship him has been a hotly debated issue. I've been associated with a particular religion all of my life and for the first time in more than 20 years I'm having doubts. I've been seeing things in a different light, thats not to say that the religion I'm affiliated with has taught lies but some of their answers about certain things are less than satisfying.

It really bothers me because it seems like it should be obvious what the right faith is. But the reality is religion has been used by some to mislead others. So called religious leaders have been accused of cheating people out of millions, abusing children, using their religious standing to advance politically. Its a shame that people would use God to further their own selfish goals. Hitler came into power by making bargains with the church.


I feel lost
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
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Religion is a GREAT thing. Organized religion on the other hand is SCARY. Now not all organized religions are bad, but when you get a bunch of people believing that their way is the "only" way or the "best" way then there is always trouble. I personally feel that most organized religions are cults, just not an "extremist" cult. They still brainwash people, especially children.
 

cipher00

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
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It's Mormonism. Don't you folks watch South Park?

("Let's go make things out of egg cartons.")

;)
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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Any construct of man suffers the same weaknesses as man - Greed, envy, pride, rath, ect.
 

Elita1

Golden Member
Nov 17, 2000
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Yes it is sad that people use religion to pursue their own selfish agendas. However, it was the people, not the religion itself that did this.
Unfortunately you will find human error and selfishness in every faith. And sometimes the instances are bad enought to turn people sour on that particular religion. But it is what the religions teach that you must concentrate on in the search for truth. And truth is not always obvious, no.
Just remember that all religions are made up of people, who are imperfect. Just because there are some people who have done evil within their religion does not mean that the whole thing is bad.

Nutdonet: just because a religion is 'organized' as you call it, does not mean they forcefully brainwash people. I find that a lot of people(NOT ALL) tend to migrate to the church or religion that best suits their idea of life, or makes them feel better. Also a lot of people would rather not think and like being told what to think. This isn't brainwashing. This is simply not exercising logic and curiosity to find the truth.

 

~zonker~

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2000
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I'm fairly certain that God is much bigger than the box that any particular faith tradition has tried to squeeze Him into.

It sounds as if you're begining to have your own rationalization of God, which is good, I think. Just as we are all different in so many ways, our perception of God will likely be as individual as the person, just give God a chance, and don't let the church dictate your perception too much. Keep an open mind to the experience of others, which is what all faith traditions are based upon, but seek your own understanding.

The church should act as a community, and unfortunately, communities are made up of imperfect people who do not always behave in an entirely Godly manner, as you may read in your history books and likely experience in just about any church that you get very involved in. We're all works in progress..
 

ElPool

Senior member
Oct 11, 2000
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<< It's Mormonism. Don't you folks watch South Park?
(&quot;Let's go make things out of egg cartons.&quot;)
>>



hahaha
&quot;give me macaroni pictures and popcorn neclaces!&quot;
 

CichliSuite

Senior member
Jan 31, 2001
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&quot;. I find that a lot of people(NOT ALL) tend to migrate to the church or religion that best suits their idea of life, or makes them feel better. &quot;

Although you qualify this statement, it is still way off the mark. MOST people don't migrate among religions at all, and instead get enveloped by the one that their family/community put forth to them.

This is especially true of the abrahamic religions (Islam, Christianity, and Judaism) which have &quot;safegaurds&quot; built in to prevent any deviation - threats of hell and damnation, peer-based ridicule, and the instilling of a powerful guilt complex ensures that dissention is minimized.
 

Thanatopsis

Golden Member
Feb 7, 2000
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<< This is especially true of the abrahamic religions (Islam, Christianity, and Judaism) which have &quot;safegaurds&quot; built in to prevent any deviation - threats of hell and damnation, peer-based ridicule, and the instilling of a powerful guilt complex ensures that dissention is minimized. >>



I've never heard those three religions called &quot;abrahamic&quot; before, but it loosely fits I suppose. Most religions have &quot;safeguards&quot;, if you will, that prevent people from leaving. Hinduism is the same way - if you're a bad Hindu, you come back to life as a snail, an untouchable, or something else undesirable. On the other hand, some Jews don't believe in hell.

I find it interesting to see how religions still form today. One of the arguments I've heard in favor of Christianity is its size and lasting effects. Yet, Mormonism is a growing &quot;religion&quot; today. Most scholars would agree that it is Joseph Smith's crack dream, yet it has 10 million members and is growing. Christianity started out even smaller. &quot;By the beginning of the second century, Christians numbered fewer than 10,000, according to some estimates.&quot; (USNews.com)

Religions become a force little by little, not all at once. They convert people who add to the logic of the religion. That's why when you try and disprove a religion, it is hard to do. You are fighting against thousands of years of theories.
 

CichliSuite

Senior member
Jan 31, 2001
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The Crusades and Jihads are hardly a &quot;little by little&quot; approach.

And neither is giving food for religious conversion like most od these charity organizations do.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
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<< but yet despite the fact that many people believe in a God how to worship him has been a hotly debated issue. >>

Partly because some people don't like belonging to a religion that makes them accountable for all of their actions. Others want to believe that they have complete control over their life. Others think that God should prove himself to them before they'll believe. All are valid reasons. Others just want to do whatever they want instead of whatever the religion says they can/cannot do.

Hey... I'm thoroughly disinterested in my own church now, too. The pastors are starting to teach shallow messages. I'm not learning anything. It's all ethereal now instead of teaching out of the Bible. Bad... bad.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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Arkitech, I believe in God, and think it's great that you are growing in your spirituality to the level where you have become a &quot;seeker.&quot; I can certainly understand your misgivings about certain facets of organized religion, and many of them are valid. I am personally of the opinion that God is not keeping score on us, deducting points if worship is not conducted in a certain fashion.

I think it safe to say that most here will be most knowledgeable and conversant about the major various Judeo-Christian belief sets, what another person called the &quot;Abrahamic&quot; religions. Therefore, I will use those for my examples. Even in faiths characterized by common core beliefs, there can be numerous different accepted (and expected) rites of worship, ancilliary beliefs, and degrees of dogmatism. For example, certain branches of Christianity hold to the idea of a strict church hierarchy, others do not.

In my case, i hold to the Methodist denomination, which has been somewhat historically known for its tolerance and acceptance of what others might charitably call non-literal beliefs - or others less charitable might call offbeat, quirky, or perhaps even kooky. John Wesley wrote in The Character of a Methodist these words, &quot;But as to all opinions which do not strike at the root of Christianity, we think and let think.&quot;

There are quite a few other Christian denominations whose adherents believe in a more literal translation. In all cases, however, the differences in structure and methods do not obscure the single defining belief of the Christian faith, that of Jesus being the Messiah, and the ultimate and necessary intermediator between man and God. Non-Christian groups hold still different beliefs; for example, Islam holds Jesus to be a prophet, but not the Messiah, and Muhammed to be the last true Prophet of Allah (God). I personally disagree, but i do not hold my faith to be more true than theirs, at least in their hearts. Man's relationship to God is direct in the Moslem faith, no intercessor is needed. In this, the faith is closer to Judaism than Christianity. But all the &quot;Abrahamic&quot; groups all believe in and worship a common God, although they give Him different names - God, Jehovah, Allah. In all these cases, God is at the head of the church. We may think differently about what is the &quot;proper&quot; way to worship Him, and whether or not certain organized religious groups are more &quot;pure&quot; or Godly than yet others, but the end result ends up equal - all that worship is still going to the same place, to glorify Him, as it should be. All the rest is just details, IMHO.

No matter what wrongs we as fallible human beings might do, whether done in &quot;His name&quot;, with or without the tacit permission or endorsement of any organized church; no wrongs any man can commit will ever change what i hold to be an ultimate truth: there is a great, merciful, and perfect God.

I wish you the best of luck in your seeking. No matter what, no matter how hard the struggle might seem to 'find' Him and the righteous path to Him, keep in mind that he has never 'lost' you. You are His child, and forever will be.
 

Feisters

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
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Religion and the belief in a higher &quot;Being&quot; is rooted in history and bygone beliefs. Foremost, it is nothing more than control over people. We weren't very enlightened &quot;back then&quot;, and are now just understanding the universe. And to all the &quot;believers&quot;: I don't begrudge you or what YOU CHOOSE TO BELIEVE. However, do not try to shove it onto me. I don't need &quot;saved&quot;. I'm doing quite fine, thank you.

 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
1
81
Well, personally, I think the right faith is what's right for you. For me, the right faith is no faith. I have a lot of problems with religion and I don't really believe there's a God. I do know that if there is one, I don't think he/she/it should be worshiped. I don't think we need to praise a God or be in fear of one. As for religion, I see most of it as a form of mind control or widely accepted cults.

David