Why is organic milk only available in half-gallons?

[ognabor]

i don't drink milk.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Descartes
If you want to drink organic and support the original point of the organic movement, then buy Organic Valley. It's a farmer-owned coop. Horizon is owned by Dean Foods, one of the companies with an agricultural philosophy that led to the creation of the movement in the first place.

Also, ignore all the ignorants that spout of nonsense about organic. Most are ill-informed on the products, the process and the whole origins of organics in the first place.

I get mine at the local farmers market, from cows within the county. But they only have the real deal. I need me some Skim organic.

That's about the best you can do, imo, organic or not. Organics used to be about creating venues for small farmers that had a superior product, but no distribution channels to get it to consumers. Most of these farmers had the philosophy which was supposed to encompass organics, but you can't be successful for too long before the big "farms" capitalize, and that's why Demos sold Silk to Dean Foods, Horizon, Stonyfield, and just about every other major brand in organics.

Supporting farmer's markets gets you a better product for a better price.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Descartes
If you want to drink organic and support the original point of the organic movement, then buy Organic Valley. It's a farmer-owned coop. Horizon is owned by Dean Foods, one of the companies with an agricultural philosophy that led to the creation of the movement in the first place.

Also, ignore all the ignorants that spout of nonsense about organic. Most are ill-informed on the products, the process and the whole origins of organics in the first place.

I get mine at the local farmers market, from cows within the county. But they only have the real deal. I need me some Skim organic.

I actually go upstate New York to a farm to buy my organic milk... also they sell it raw When I go there I can see the cows in the field and when they milk their cows you can ask to see everything happen. They'll even teach you how to milk cows by hand. Great place.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: FoBoT
the cows are only half as big as non-organic cows







milk is milk, don't waste your money

Organic milk cows are:

Not pumped full of antibiotics and hormones. This saves you from ingesting unwanted drugs, and helps alleviate bacterial resistance caused by overuse of antibiotics.
Not grown Matrix-esque stalls.
Not fed beef byproducts like blood and bones.
Fed organic crops which means no synthetic fertilizers and pesticides, which are damaging to the environment.

I'm afraid your organic milk is far from perfect. It still can contain a small amount of pesticides. No RBGH? Suuure, although some companies will use legal loop holes on that and still claim that they sell Organic Milk (read below).
Not grown in Matrix-esque stalls? Are you sure about that too?

BOYCOTT THE SHAMELESS SEVEN--ORGANIC OUTLAWS LABELING FACTORY FARM MILK AS 'USDA ORGANIC'

While USDA bureaucrats drag their feet on closing key loopholes in national organic organic standards, retailers, wholesalers and major ?organic? brands are continuing to sell milk and dairy products labeled as "USDA Organic, even though most or all of their milk is coming from factory farm feedlots where the animals have been brought in from conventional farms and are kept in intensive confinement, with little or no access to pasture.

The Organic Consumers Association is expanding its boycott of Horizon and Aurora organic dairy products to include five national "private label" organic milk brands supplied by Aurora, as well as two leading organic soy products, Silk and White Wave, owned by Horizon's parent company, Dean Foods. Its time to turn up the heat on the "Shameless Seven.

While thousands of organic consumers and a number of natural food stores and cooperatives have joined the boycott, major national large grocery retailers have ignored the boycott.

Aurora Organic supplies milk for several private label organic milk brands, including Costco's "Kirkland Signature," Safeway?s "O" organics brand, Publix?s ?High Meadows,?Giant's "Natures Promise," and Wild Oats? organic milk. Aurora Organic received a failing grade from the Cornucopia Institute's survey of organic dairies for its practice of intensive confinement of dairy cows. For pictures of Aurora Organic's operations, follow this link. The Cornucopia Institute recently blew the whistle on Aurora Organic's greenwashing and its bogus certification of animal welfare.

Additionally, its been revealed that much of the soy for Dean Food's White Wave tofu and Silk soymilk products are sourced abroad, primarily from Brazil and China. Environmental standards and workers' rights are routinely violated in these two countries.

http://www.democracyinaction.o....jsp?campaign_KEY=4756

Great, you found an article which exposes several companies which are trying to take advantage of loop holes or other dastardly means to cheat the system. And now you are going to try and project this onto the entire organic milk industry? Yet in another thread about mercury in amalgam filling controversy, you toss aside the anecdotal evidence presented in opposition to mercury? Not very consistent ....

Edit: Sam's club had to recently recall their beef recently due to some e.coli outbreak or another. Guess the entire beef industry is out for you too?

I claimed that organic milk is not perfect. I maintain that. If you want to research FDA regulations for organic milk you will see what I am talking about.

Also, and unfortunately, there seems to be cruddy companies who are selling organic milk/milk products that aren't exactly what the consumers that buy them think they are.
It's good to pass along that information.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Descartes
If you want to drink organic and support the original point of the organic movement, then buy Organic Valley. It's a farmer-owned coop. Horizon is owned by Dean Foods, one of the companies with an agricultural philosophy that led to the creation of the movement in the first place.

Also, ignore all the ignorants that spout of nonsense about organic. Most are ill-informed on the products, the process and the whole origins of organics in the first place.

I get mine at the local farmers market, from cows within the county. But they only have the real deal. I need me some Skim organic.

That's about the best you can do, imo, organic or not. Organics used to be about creating venues for small farmers that had a superior product, but no distribution channels to get it to consumers. Most of these farmers had the philosophy which was supposed to encompass organics, but you can't be successful for too long before the big "farms" capitalize, and that's why Demos sold Silk to Dean Foods, Horizon, Stonyfield, and just about every other major brand in organics.

Supporting farmer's markets gets you a better product for a better price.

We joined a CSA this year as well, and got a half bushel of fresh veggies delivered from the farm every week. It was a great experience, but we ran out of time to learn how to deal with the new veggies that we wouldn't normally cook. We'll probably skip it next year and just bulk up at the farmers market.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Descartes
If you want to drink organic and support the original point of the organic movement, then buy Organic Valley. It's a farmer-owned coop. Horizon is owned by Dean Foods, one of the companies with an agricultural philosophy that led to the creation of the movement in the first place.

Also, ignore all the ignorants that spout of nonsense about organic. Most are ill-informed on the products, the process and the whole origins of organics in the first place.

I get mine at the local farmers market, from cows within the county. But they only have the real deal. I need me some Skim organic.

I actually go upstate New York to a farm to buy my organic milk... also they sell it raw When I go there I can see the cows in the field and when they milk their cows you can ask to see everything happen. They'll even teach you how to milk cows by hand. Great place.

What do they do if their cows develop mastitus?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Descartes
If you want to drink organic and support the original point of the organic movement, then buy Organic Valley. It's a farmer-owned coop. Horizon is owned by Dean Foods, one of the companies with an agricultural philosophy that led to the creation of the movement in the first place.

Also, ignore all the ignorants that spout of nonsense about organic. Most are ill-informed on the products, the process and the whole origins of organics in the first place.

While I don't usually buy into the the organic foods idea for things like vegetables and fruits (mostly because I use the vegetables in stews where the differences can't be tasted and because I don't eat many fruits), I whole-heartedly agree about organic milk. The flavor is much better. Whether that is simply because it is sold in opaque containers which prevents light from breaking down the milk or for other reasons, I don't know, but Organic Valley milk is clearly better tasting than average milk.

It's a little more expensive, sure, but at the local QFC the little automated coupon dispensers always spit out a $3.00 off coupon when I buy it, so it turns out not to be as expensive as it seems.

ZV

 

[se7en]

My son drinks organic milk since he was old enough and hes as big as a tank now @ 22 months. RAWR.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Descartes
If you want to drink organic and support the original point of the organic movement, then buy Organic Valley. It's a farmer-owned coop. Horizon is owned by Dean Foods, one of the companies with an agricultural philosophy that led to the creation of the movement in the first place.

Also, ignore all the ignorants that spout of nonsense about organic. Most are ill-informed on the products, the process and the whole origins of organics in the first place.

I get mine at the local farmers market, from cows within the county. But they only have the real deal. I need me some Skim organic.

I actually go upstate New York to a farm to buy my organic milk... also they sell it raw When I go there I can see the cows in the field and when they milk their cows you can ask to see everything happen. They'll even teach you how to milk cows by hand. Great place.

What do they do if their cows develop mastitus?

That's one of the rubs of organics. Many farmers want to treat their animals humanely, and letting them suffer isn't one of them; unfortunately, if they treat them, then they can no longer produce milk for organics certification. Some certifications allow the use of antibiotics as a calf, but for an adult the cow would likely have to be moved to a conventional farm.

It's not a perfect system, but it's not intended to be.

[edit]I should note that this is only if they treat them with the use of antibiotics or anything else prohibited in the certification. There are natural ways to treat some diseases, but I'm not privy to most of those methods.[/edit]

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: FoBoT
the cows are only half as big as non-organic cows







milk is milk, don't waste your money

Organic milk cows are:

Not pumped full of antibiotics and hormones. This saves you from ingesting unwanted drugs, and helps alleviate bacterial resistance caused by overuse of antibiotics.
Not grown Matrix-esque stalls.
Not fed beef byproducts like blood and bones.
Fed organic crops which means no synthetic fertilizers and pesticides, which are damaging to the environment.

I'm afraid your organic milk is far from perfect. It still can contain a small amount of pesticides. No RBGH? Suuure, although some companies will use legal loop holes on that and still claim that they sell Organic Milk (read below).
Not grown in Matrix-esque stalls? Are you sure about that too?

BOYCOTT THE SHAMELESS SEVEN--ORGANIC OUTLAWS LABELING FACTORY FARM MILK AS 'USDA ORGANIC'

While USDA bureaucrats drag their feet on closing key loopholes in national organic organic standards, retailers, wholesalers and major ?organic? brands are continuing to sell milk and dairy products labeled as "USDA Organic, even though most or all of their milk is coming from factory farm feedlots where the animals have been brought in from conventional farms and are kept in intensive confinement, with little or no access to pasture.

The Organic Consumers Association is expanding its boycott of Horizon and Aurora organic dairy products to include five national "private label" organic milk brands supplied by Aurora, as well as two leading organic soy products, Silk and White Wave, owned by Horizon's parent company, Dean Foods. Its time to turn up the heat on the "Shameless Seven.

While thousands of organic consumers and a number of natural food stores and cooperatives have joined the boycott, major national large grocery retailers have ignored the boycott.

Aurora Organic supplies milk for several private label organic milk brands, including Costco's "Kirkland Signature," Safeway?s "O" organics brand, Publix?s ?High Meadows,?Giant's "Natures Promise," and Wild Oats? organic milk. Aurora Organic received a failing grade from the Cornucopia Institute's survey of organic dairies for its practice of intensive confinement of dairy cows. For pictures of Aurora Organic's operations, follow this link. The Cornucopia Institute recently blew the whistle on Aurora Organic's greenwashing and its bogus certification of animal welfare.

Additionally, its been revealed that much of the soy for Dean Food's White Wave tofu and Silk soymilk products are sourced abroad, primarily from Brazil and China. Environmental standards and workers' rights are routinely violated in these two countries.

http://www.democracyinaction.o....jsp?campaign_KEY=4756

Great, you found an article which exposes several companies which are trying to take advantage of loop holes or other dastardly means to cheat the system. And now you are going to try and project this onto the entire organic milk industry? Yet in another thread about mercury in amalgam filling controversy, you toss aside the anecdotal evidence presented in opposition to mercury? Not very consistent ....

Edit: Sam's club had to recently recall their beef recently due to some e.coli outbreak or another. Guess the entire beef industry is out for you too?

I claimed that organic milk is not perfect. I maintain that. If you want to research FDA regulations for organic milk you will see what I am talking about.

Also, and unfortunately, there seems to be cruddy companies who are selling organic milk/milk products that aren't exactly what the consumers that buy them think they are.
It's good to pass along that information.

Cannot argue with that, I absolutely agree.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Descartes
If you want to drink organic and support the original point of the organic movement, then buy Organic Valley. It's a farmer-owned coop. Horizon is owned by Dean Foods, one of the companies with an agricultural philosophy that led to the creation of the movement in the first place.

Also, ignore all the ignorants that spout of nonsense about organic. Most are ill-informed on the products, the process and the whole origins of organics in the first place.

While I don't usually buy into the the organic foods idea for things like vegetables and fruits (mostly because I use the vegetables in stews where the differences can't be tasted and because I don't eat many fruits), I whole-heartedly agree about organic milk. The flavor is much better. Whether that is simply because it is sold in opaque containers which prevents light from breaking down the milk or for other reasons, I don't know, but Organic Valley milk is clearly better tasting than average milk.

I agree. It's also true for all dairy products that I've had. Organic cottage cheese, for example, tastes so much better than something by Viva that it's not worthy of a comparison. That's also one of the things that people seem to get confused; it's not necessarily that the food tastes better because it's organic as it is that those that take the investment to be organic generally create a better product. There are plenty of conventional farms that create an excellent product, but mass-marketed produce rarely ever has the flavor of something local, or if not local, then organic.

 

[chuckywang]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Descartes
If you want to drink organic and support the original point of the organic movement, then buy Organic Valley. It's a farmer-owned coop. Horizon is owned by Dean Foods, one of the companies with an agricultural philosophy that led to the creation of the movement in the first place.

Also, ignore all the ignorants that spout of nonsense about organic. Most are ill-informed on the products, the process and the whole origins of organics in the first place.

While I don't usually buy into the the organic foods idea for things like vegetables and fruits (mostly because I use the vegetables in stews where the differences can't be tasted and because I don't eat many fruits), I whole-heartedly agree about organic milk. The flavor is much better. Whether that is simply because it is sold in opaque containers which prevents light from breaking down the milk or for other reasons, I don't know, but Organic Valley milk is clearly better tasting than average milk.

I agree. It's also true for all dairy products that I've had. Organic cottage cheese, for example, tastes so much better than something by Viva that it's not worthy of a comparison. That's also one of the things that people seem to get confused; it's not necessarily that the food tastes better because it's organic as it is that those that take the investment to be organic generally create a better product. There are plenty of conventional farms that create an excellent product, but mass-marketed produce rarely ever has the flavor of something local, or if not local, then organic.

It kinda makes you wonder if the higher price is because it's organic or if it's because it just tastes better. BTW, I agree with you that it does taste better from the one time I bought organic milk (. However, at $6 a gallon, it costs too much to justify buying it regularly.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: chuckywang

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Descartes
If you want to drink organic and support the original point of the organic movement, then buy Organic Valley. It's a farmer-owned coop. Horizon is owned by Dean Foods, one of the companies with an agricultural philosophy that led to the creation of the movement in the first place.

Also, ignore all the ignorants that spout of nonsense about organic. Most are ill-informed on the products, the process and the whole origins of organics in the first place.

While I don't usually buy into the the organic foods idea for things like vegetables and fruits (mostly because I use the vegetables in stews where the differences can't be tasted and because I don't eat many fruits), I whole-heartedly agree about organic milk. The flavor is much better. Whether that is simply because it is sold in opaque containers which prevents light from breaking down the milk or for other reasons, I don't know, but Organic Valley milk is clearly better tasting than average milk.

I agree. It's also true for all dairy products that I've had. Organic cottage cheese, for example, tastes so much better than something by Viva that it's not worthy of a comparison. That's also one of the things that people seem to get confused; it's not necessarily that the food tastes better because it's organic as it is that those that take the investment to be organic generally create a better product. There are plenty of conventional farms that create an excellent product, but mass-marketed produce rarely ever has the flavor of something local, or if not local, then organic.

It kinda makes you wonder if the higher price is because it's organic or if it's because it just tastes better. BTW, I agree with you that it does taste better from the one time I bought organic milk (. However, at $6 a gallon, it costs too much to justify buying it regularly.

It's because it's organic. In a perfect market, all cost in the manufacturing of a product should result in value for the consumer. Since organics has higher operating costs (lower yield per acre for produce, certification costs, land costs, use of more expensive methods for pests, etc.), that has to flow on to the consumer. One of the exceptions to this rule is soy. Silk and other soy products have exceedingly high margins, a precedent set by Demos in the early days of White Wave (before Dean Foods) since he had no competition.

 

[torpid]

The best local milk here (blue marble) is not organic for the reasons stated above here. I asked them directly if they are certified organic and they said that they do not want to be because they want to keep disease / illness in their cows low (and not go bankrupt) in order to keep a reasonable SCC, so occasionally have to use antibiotics.

 

[yllus]

Because a full gallon would be considered bulk?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Descartes
If you want to drink organic and support the original point of the organic movement, then buy Organic Valley. It's a farmer-owned coop. Horizon is owned by Dean Foods, one of the companies with an agricultural philosophy that led to the creation of the movement in the first place.

Also, ignore all the ignorants that spout of nonsense about organic. Most are ill-informed on the products, the process and the whole origins of organics in the first place.

While I don't usually buy into the the organic foods idea for things like vegetables and fruits (mostly because I use the vegetables in stews where the differences can't be tasted and because I don't eat many fruits), I whole-heartedly agree about organic milk. The flavor is much better. Whether that is simply because it is sold in opaque containers which prevents light from breaking down the milk or for other reasons, I don't know, but Organic Valley milk is clearly better tasting than average milk.

I agree. It's also true for all dairy products that I've had. Organic cottage cheese, for example, tastes so much better than something by Viva that it's not worthy of a comparison. That's also one of the things that people seem to get confused; it's not necessarily that the food tastes better because it's organic as it is that those that take the investment to be organic generally create a better product. There are plenty of conventional farms that create an excellent product, but mass-marketed produce rarely ever has the flavor of something local, or if not local, then organic.

It's the same reason that I drive 30 miles to go to a specific grocer to get my meats. Sometimes it will cost me 2-3 times what it costs people who go to Grocery Outlet, but the quality is vastly superior. I remember one time a friend brought over a bunch of pork chops for a cookout from one of those bulk food places, I think they paid something like $1.99/pound. They looked half-decent so I cooked them up. Mistake. Might as well have grilled up slices of vulcanized rubber. I've never in my life been so embarrassed about something that came off of my grill. The amazing thing to me is that my friends thought they were great. Makes me wonder just what they're used to.

That's the one thing I learned from my father. Do not ever bargain-hunt when it comes to real food. Things like frozen pizza or catsup, sure, but never meats, dairy, or produce.

ZV

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: lozina
Great, you found an article which exposes several companies which are trying to take advantage of loop holes or other dastardly means to cheat the system. And now you are going to try and project this onto the entire organic milk industry?

that pretty much is the entire organic milk industry. those two companies are almost 2/3 of the market.