Why is my registry getting corrupted? Help me if you can!

MCS

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2000
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I don't know if this is Hardware or OS - sorry mods!

My PC stays on 24/7, running Windows XP. About two weeks ago I had a BSOD and had to reboot - the PC would not boot up, no matter what I tried. It gave me the following error:

STOP: c0000218 {Registry File Failure}
The registry cannot load the hive (file):
\SystemRoot\System32\Config\SOFTWARE
or its log or alternate.
It is corrupt, absent, or not writeable.



I had to restore an older Ghost backup. I didn't think too much of it, (apart from suspecting either heat or Norton Antivirus) until today when I restarted the machine to take another Ghost image (I am making them more regularly now!). Right after the backup had completed, it started to boot up and I got that same error again! This is despite there being no lockup/BSOD or anything - the computer was shut down normally having been running fine for a number of days.

Could it be that the registry is somehow getting corrupt on shutdown? I remember there was an issue with Windows 98/ME where the PC would shut down before the HD had written all its cache. If this is the case, I assume that the Ghost image I just took will be corrupt, and I will have to restore the previous one to this (thank god I kept it).

How can I fix this? I really don't want to install fresh, but will if I have to.

I am not overclocking anything.

Thanks
 

Alex

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
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this might sound dumb but does xp have system restore? if so, use it!
 

MCS

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Feb 3, 2000
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It does, but a) I have it disabled and b) how can run it if I can't boot into Windows?
 

millsy

Senior member
Jul 26, 2001
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With the wonderful BSOD you can figure out by the codes displayed what is causing the problem.

If you really want to you could phone Microsoft and they should point you in the right direction.

Or I would if possible copy all relevant data and reinstall to be safe.
 

MCS

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2000
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Arrgh - reinstall! Last resort, that is.

This is puzzling me because the Ghost image I originally restored from a month or more ago, when that image was taken, the problem was not there. But having restored it the problem comes back - which is why I suspected Norton Antivirus because it updates itself.

millsy - its not a BSOD as such it's a blue screen with a small error message in the top left corner, it happens just before you would expect the desktop to come up. And then the system reboots, and gets as far as the error message again, and so on.

MrGrim - I said in my original post that I am not overclocking anything.
 

Alex

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
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MCS

just put your hd as secondary on like your moms comp, backup your stuff and format it...
 

MCS

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Feb 3, 2000
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<< just put your hd as secondary on like your moms comp, backup your stuff and format it... >>



Hehe, while I appreciate your help (and I do), I was hoping really to resolve this issue, discover a little more about it and perhaps even learn something. If I wanted to just give in and format and start over, I would have done that without posting here...

If I can fix this I would rather do that then resinstall, because I have so many utils/apps and settings that the thought of having to start over is very daunting :(
 

Pederv

Golden Member
May 13, 2000
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Most all registry corruptions that I've experienced (that weren't on OC'd systems) were due to bad RAM.
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
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I've seen just enough messages along these lines that I'm beginning to wonder if that old bugaboo of the too-fast shutdown might be rearing its ugly head again in Windows XP. I saw this regularly enough in Windows 2000 on some types of systems, and Microsoft released a patch and a fix in SP2 that supposedly laid it to rest. I assumed that it wouldn't be back in Windows XP. You notice a lot of people whine about how long it takes Windows XP to shut down. It writes a fair amount of stuff to the registry at shutdown. If the system quits before the hard drive is finished writing... But this can also be caused by device drivers that attempt to write back to the software hive during shutdown, too. Any recent changes to the system, like the addition of some CD burning software or something like that?

- Collin
 

MCS

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2000
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A-ha - somebody thinking along the same lines as me :) You have really seen lots of messages like this?

As it happens, now that you mention it, I *did* install Padus DiscJuggler recently. Come to think of it this was BEFORE the first time this happened. Hmmmm. I didnt consider it before as a possible cause of this. You think this could be it?
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
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I'd give uninstalling it a try just to see what happens. Unfortunately, a lot of software that an ordinary guy like me might not be inclined to suspect turns out to be installing kernel mode device drivers. The list includes most CD burner software I've seen, all WinXP-compliant anti-virus software I've seen, some personal firewalls, and probably lots of other stuff.

I create a restore point using the System Restore feature before I install ANYTHING that might install drivers or pseudo-drivers on my WinXP systems. I've tested a bunch of these puppies to destruction, and the only thing I've seen that could really whack Windows XP is a bad driver. If you haven't disabled System Restore, and if just uninstalling DiscJuggler doesn't do the trick, you might try restoring the system to an earlier configuration -- if you can find a restore point that was created just before you installed DiscJuggler. That's because a lot of these installation procedures don't reverse nicely, leaving all kinds of utter crap in the registry when you run the uninstall.

Of course, there are still lots of other possibilities, but this is at least one point to check out. I'd also check the Windows Update site, if you haven't done that recently. They've posted more than one update to take care of (among other things) incompatibilities with various CD burning software packages.

If a simple approach like this doesn't work I'd be hoping for some kind of blue screen from another source to give you a hint as to what's causing the hive corruption. Man, I hate it when stuff like this happens! So far, fortunately for me, I've seen very little of it in WinXP, and I've always been able to fix the system by using driver rollback or system restore. I hope your luck is as good!

- Collin
 

MCS

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2000
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Thanks for that, a very helpful reply!

I will try removing DiscJuggler just to test (I have a Ghost image so I can "play"), but this is really not a good solution for me because I am using it a lot right now...but will be interesting to see. I suspected Norton Antivirus because even though I have been running it for months, it updates itself regularly, so I figured it could have taken an update recently which has caused an error. AFAIK DiscJuggler is the only thing I have installed for a good month or more now though.

I guess all the time the PC is running I am okay, it is until I reboot it (which isn't often).
 

LoneShadow

Member
Dec 8, 2001
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Hi,

I got the same BSOD once, and after that, i keep getting UNMOUNTABLE_BOOT_VOLUME BSODS every now and then, I checked up few newsgroups and gk-base on MS-website. I think i know my problem is, I have enabled ATA100 for my hdd, but the cable is not 80 wire cable, instead the normal 40 wire cable. gonna try tonite the correct cable, it should resolve the problem. The only other reason things could mess up is the driver/bios-patch i installed, for some reason, the hdd is going read-only or something during boot up, and hence my registry/boot volume record are getting corrupted.
Check if u have the right cable for ur hdd, and also check ur driver updates.

LoneShadow
 

MCS

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2000
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Hi

I did change my boot HD recently from an IBM to a Maxtor but I did that way before the first BSOD occurred. I have brand new ATA-66/100 cables. The drives are connected to the Highpoint 370 controller on a KG7-R, I have the latest (beta) drivers for Windows XP. They are on my "suspect" list.

I have been looking on MS Support for the actual solution to this problem, (rather than just restoring a Ghost backup), and it appears you need to boot from a CD/diskette and use the recovery console to restore the backup copy of the registry. Unlike 98 however, it appears a backup is NOT taken regularly and certainly not automatically by the system, other than the original straight after the Windows install. I could be wrong about this but it appears to me that unless you have created a recovery backup then you will basically be unable to restore a recent version. Well Done Microsoft - and thank god for Norton Ghost!
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
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Hi,

Do you mean that when you go into System Restore it doesn't show you any previous restore points, or am I misunderstanding? Each restore point should have a full registry backup, and more. And, of course, you can create a restore point any time you wish by just going to the applet and choosing to do so. I think it's really going to be quite a bit easier for most people to use than, say, the ntbackup facility for producing an ERD and depending upon the (normally) one previous registry backup. I was pretty confused by it when I first realized that there was no such thing as an ERD in WinXP, but I've installed some pretty horrible stuff that whack WinXP at the next boot time and always recovered very easily using System Restore -- or sometimes just by booting into Safe Mode and blowing away the culprit from the Add/Remove Programs applet.

- Collin
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
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MCS: I had the EXACT same problem. I finally figured it out ( i think). I was using win2k and after restarting it occasionally (usually 2 or three restarts after reinstalling wind0ws) the SAME screen would show up. I tried backing it up, stepping back my o/cing, EVERYTHING. I tried giving 2k more time to write to the HDD (i thought the software file was still in RAM and the comp was being shut down before it could write it back to the HDD), but to no avail. I finally got sick of it and replaced my mobo, however, i kept the other one because I was too lazy to RMA it. Well, i gave it to a friend to use and guess what? He got a similiar problem in XP. He reinstalled windows and didn't install any of the 4 in 1's..... no BSOD.
 

MCS

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Feb 3, 2000
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c0rv1d43 - lovely name to type by the way :) No, I don't have System Restore enabled, I have unchecked it completely. If this is the only way to get a backup of the registry then that's a bit silly really I think. One question though - what use is it if I totally can't boot into Windows, even in Safe Mode?

BlinderBomber - so you are saying it was a faulty motherboard or are you saying it was the 4-in-1 drivers? I have not installed the VIA drivers, I am using the default WinXP ones. In fact, the only drivers I have installed are the Nvidia Detonator XPs and the updated drivers for the Highpoint controller.

I have yet to remove DiscJuggler from the system but assume I just need to remove and keep restarting after that and see if I get the error.
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
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<< c0rv1d43 - lovely name to type by the way :) >>



Yeah, I'm an old big iron / AIX user. Old habits die hard.



<< No, I don't have System Restore enabled, I have unchecked it completely. If this is the only way to get a backup of the registry then that's a bit silly really I think. One question though - what use is it if I totally can't boot into Windows, even in Safe Mode? >>



I, too, found the idea of System Restore to be a little off-putting at first, but I studied up on it and tested it and came to realize it works a lot better than simply restoring registry hives. For one thing, just restoring registry hives without reverting to the appropriate file system complement can cause its own kinds of disasters. I did a fair amount of deliberate testing-to-destruction on WinXP systems (mostly RC2) and found by actually trying both that System Restore works a lot better than a simple registry restore. Try it, you'll like it! Oh, and you don't have to be able to get to Safe Mode to use System Restore. It's also available to you via the repair function when you boot from the setup CD. And, for those who say that System Restore uses too many system resources -- Look, System Restore is like a lot of other default processes in this OS. It does NOT use system resources other than a tiny bit of RAM (and the requisite disk space) during normal operations. The ONLY thing it's likely to slow down (slightly) is an installation process. But it also makes the installation process easier to recover from if it turns out to be a bummer! Anyone who claims that System Restore is slowing their machine down should take a little trip into the Task Manager to assure him/herself that this just isn't true. There are some pretty interesting articles on it in the MSKB, and I think it's one of the more useful self-protective features I've ever seen on any OS.



<< I have yet to remove DiscJuggler from the system but assume I just need to remove and keep restarting after that and see if I get the error. >>



Unless you're experiencing an incipient hardware failure, your problem is certain to be the old too-fast shutdown OR a device driver. I'd give this a try. There's really no harm in experimenting.

Oh, and please do reconsider using System Restore (and Windows File Protection, too -- if you've turned that off). They really do work. For anyone who needs the old system to keep pumping out work under WinXP -- especially if they do a lot of installing / uninstalling -- these features are just too vital to do without.

But, different courses for different horses. :D

- Collin
 

MCS

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Feb 3, 2000
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Living in fear of rebooting my PC :D

Seriously, I am a big fan of Ghost for backup purposes, as long as I remember to take the image. It's absolute, you see. I never really considered System Restore before, I just thought it was one of thoses "useless, annoying Windows ME things". Sounds incredibly arrogant I know, but it sounds like you have done your homework. How much disk space does it take up?
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
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<< Living in fear of rebooting my PC :D >>



I understand why.



<< Seriously, I am a big fan of Ghost for backup purposes, as long as I remember to take the image. It's absolute, you see. I never really considered System Restore before, I just thought it was one of thoses "useless, annoying Windows ME things". Sounds incredibly arrogant I know, but it sounds like you have done your homework. How much disk space does it take up? >>



Actually that's really the problem with Ghost -- it is absolute. When I first started using NT4 and Win2K (I first started using Windows just before Win2K went RTM.) I used to make jokes about system state and full system backups, saying that doing this to be able to restore the system in case of a catastrophic event was silly because we were likely backing up the very problem that was going to lead to another catastrophic failure. That was actually true in NT4, which was devoid of any kind of system file protection.

With Ghost (or any number of different kinds of backup utilities) you make a backup of your system partition at any point where you think everything is working okay. But that backup you make may already include a fatal flaw that just hasn't got around to biting you -- yet. The system is working fine for you at that moment, so you suppose that the system state and file complement are fine, too. But maybe it's all running okay at the moment simply because you haven't yet had the particular combination of processes running that's going to come up at some point and trash the system. Okay, so a couple of weeks after you Ghosted your last "good" setup your system goes down. You restore your "good" image, and it sits there waiting to bite you again, just like it did before. The only kind of machine I would use this type of backup strategy on is one which has run perfectly under heavy and varied use for a couple of months with NO changes to its configuration. At that point, I would judge that I had a solid image and back that sucker up. I'd then place that image on a test box of the exact same specs, and before I applied any change at all to that primary production box, I'd test the change on the test box. But this is the sort of thing I'd do only for a seriously depended-upon production box. Not for a personal machine. On a personal machine, I just do a fresh install and re-install all the apps. The only thing I back up on a personal machine is my data and the downloaded software complement.

I think that Ghosting on a personal machine that gets three or four new apps or utilities and several software / OS upgrades per week is not such a good deal. Getting a perfect working Ghosted image that won't include problems from a previous configuration is largely a matter of luck.

On the other hand, System Restore applies "filters" from the repair capabilities of the OS to the restoration process, and those filters can actually repair problems in the saved registry hives. That's something that no ordinary backup process can do. The driver rollback feature alone is wonderful. Anyone who has ever tried to clear a system of a problematic driver file complement will realize at once just how useful driver rollback is. The "bad stuff" is gone after you do the rollback. So those hard-coded interactions between driver files that were never supposed to share the same directory can't occur any more. I tested this little gimmick with some nasty variations of the ATI Mobility P drivers for a Dell Inspiron 7500. Reverting from a bad driver under Windows 2000 was a nightmare because you had to find out from the actual writer of the drivers just exactly what files you were looking for and manually remove them. Otherwise, the installation of a driver set which would have worked perfectly would not work at all because there was some nasty little .sys or .dll file down there in the drivers directory that was putting the kibosh on proper operations.

And, no, I don't think it's arrogant of you to think you can do it better yourself. No one who's seen DOS-based Windows could be blamed for thinking that. But System Restore really works as advertised in any situation I've been able to devise to confound it. As far as I can tell, the only way of defeating it is to a) turn it off, or b) farkle the file system / partition table -- a fairly unlikely thing to happen with NTFS.

System Restore takes, by default, it's maximum of 12% of the boot partition on all of the installations I've seen. The user is at liberty to reduce that using a slider control in the settings applet. The metadata used by System Restore is in the System Volume Information directory off of the root, and it also makes use of the protected files caches on the system. WinXP lets you see this directory, but you may not touch it. Well, not unless you do something like I did. If you dual boot WinXP with itself, you can look at the System Volume Information directory when booted from a different partition than the one whose System Volume Information directory you are inspecting. I would recommend highly against doing anything to it manually. :D So far none of my machines is actually using anywhere near the 12% limit, and I've done a lot of testing of various types of software on two of these machines. I'm a big believer in having a huge boot partition. None of my boot partitions has more than 30% of its total space utilized. Hey, hard drive space is cheap, and time is money. All sorts of things work better and faster on an uncrowded system / boot partition.

I don't know what to suggest in your case. Obviously you're walking a bit of a tightrope. I have NEVER tried reinstituting the use of System Restore on a PC on which it had not been running. I don't quite know how well it can work in such a case. I would not hesitate to tell you to make use of it on a fresh installation of the OS, but I just don't know for certain what I'd do if I were in your shoes. I think I'd wait until I had performed a full clean installation of the OS. If you turned off System Restore early on in the game, then you don't have any (or many) restore points to choose from, and they're all well back in the past history of this istallation. You have to redo all software installations and system configurations that occurred since the last restore point, so you might very well have as much work to do as you would with a full, clean installation of WinXP.

I'm kind of fastidious. That's probably what I'd do if I were you. BUT I would FIRST try to find out (if I could) just what had farkled my system so that I didn't wind up doing it again. I'd at least experiment some (like with removing DiscJuggler and maybe other apps / devices) to try to satisfy my curiosity. But remember that, especially if you've also turned off Windows File Protection, your problem could be due to more than just one item. It could be due to a combination of changes in registry settings and / or file complement rather than just one errant item.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, but not sure I know what other help I might be just now.

- Collin
 

MCS

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2000
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If you were a salesman and I a customer, I think I would have signed up to System Restore by now :) You are absolutely correct about having hesitations before just turning it on though. I installed Windows XP in early September. Microsoft will probably tell you that you can just turn it on any time, but it's like all these things - I also hate upgrading one OS to another. Really, to sort the problem I will probably have to do a clean install. I have been meaning to do one for a while because I have changed motherboards once during this current installation. XP appeared to handle the upgrade wonderfully, a couple of minutes of disk activity at the desktop and one reboot was all that was required. Maybe, just maybe, something went afoot after that time. It went against what I usually do when I change motherboards, but I thought I would see how XP handled it and I was so impressed that I just carried on. I have also changed my boot drive, using Ghost to copy from the old drive to the new. The trouble with doing a clean install though is apart from this problem I have everything just right how I like it. The thought of reinstalling it all puts me off enough to live with the problem...Hey, I dont reboot very often and when I do I dont mind going back to my last Ghost image, even if it IS screwed (j/k). A lot can be said for leaving a machine on 24/7 - if I was shutting it down every night then this problem would be a lot more pressing wouldn't it? Everything DOES seem perfectly stable.

No point doing a resintall before a diagnose the problem though - otherwise I may end up installing the same piece of software again that caused it (if it IS a piece of software). I won't be best pleased if it is DiscJuggler though because I am using it a lot at the moment. I supposed you could argue that a fresh install would have System Restore turned on from the start so why worry :p

It's also having time to check all these things out. Right now as long as it's up, and stable, I will continue to use it, probably until the weekend when I will sit down properly and try and break it! I have my trusty (or not so trusty) .GHO file!

Cheers!
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
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Wow! Now that I know a little more about it, I'd have to say that your system really does have an interesting history! You've certainly had pretty good luck with it considering the loops you've put it through! It's obvious you've been pretty careful and methodical or something would have ground to a halt before now.

So, if you put the OS on in September it's RC2? If that's true you're gonna love the final version. I found a number of nasty little things in RC2 that have, apparently, been banished from build 2600.

I'll continue to keep my fingers crossed for you. Suggest an UPS with a BIG battery, if your local power company isn't really on the ball. I know that if I were in that situation they'd choose the first really terrible moment to drop the line one me!

Be happy and healthy!

- Collin
 

MCS

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2000
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No, it was the RTM Corp version, Build 2600, as good as Retail I believe.

I thought Windows XP was supposed to be robust enough to handle hardware upgrades - even a motherboard upgrade. If the day has arrived where you dont have to reinstall your entire OS *even* if you change your motherboard then I am all for that! It may sound like my system has been through a lot, but I am always very careful, and I have maintained 100% stability throughout, aside from recently of course.