Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Yep.
It seems to work both ways though, with a small number of cops who disproportionately get involved in these incidents. It might be bad luck in most cases but we do need to be careful about those few bad cops out there.
My attitude is that if someone gets killed, the incident should be thoroughly investigated. Period. No matter who got killed and who did the killing. A badge should never be construed as a license to kill.
However, the OP's case seems pretty open and shut as justified.
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
- Jun 27, 2005
- 19,216
- 1
- 61
Have you just arrived in this country? Didn't you know that when a cop shoots a drunk lunatic waving a knife around it's always the cop's fault in the eyes of VIOLENT OFFENDER'S friends and neighbors?
Was he just supposed to stand there and get stabbed?
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2001
- 14,513
- 4
- 81
I didn't see anyone mention this: Tueller Drill. The situation is probably not directly comparable to the set-up of the drill, as the officer probably had his weapon drawn and aimed, but it underscores the danger presented by a knife-wielding attacker.
A Taser has a single shot ? if the officer fired and missed, he would be completely SOL with his handgun holstered.
Do you ever review the results of the internal investigations? Many of these incidents fade away without additional prominent coverage.
A Taser has a single shot ? if the officer fired and missed, he would be completely SOL with his handgun holstered.
Watching the same 30-second spot several times doesn't get you anything beyond what the station wants you to see. If there were apparent evidence of wrongdoing (such as the shot in back or no knife from your other story), the station would have aired it. Did the segment have comments from the deceased's family or neighbors?
Do you ever review the results of the internal investigations? Many of these incidents fade away without additional prominent coverage.
Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to get drunk, start breaking windows, and waving a knife? Personal responsibility FTW.............
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
It wasn't the officer who was in danger but the woman's adult daughters (who had locked her out of the house).
If you read the article, the neighbor who was the most critical of the cop's actions admits that she never even saw the knife that everyone else did, however she does say that she heard the officer warn Gay "to put the knife down" right before the shooting occurred.
The other critical neighbors had their backs turned when the shooting occurred and didn't notice that Gay had picked the knife back up off the ground as she turned to attack her daughters, but they did see the knife prior to the incident.
There's a reason why eyewitness testimony is not considered the most reliable.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
That doesn't mean that the woman deserved to be killed.
All this taser talk is typical internet stupidity, where someone brings something up and people begin arguing that as though it were real. For all we know, the officer was not equipped with a taser, and so that was never an option.
Here's my guess as to what happened. Anita Gay got drunk, got into a heated argument with her daughters, shit got thrown and windows got broken, Gay picked up a knife and threatened her daughters, they locked her out of the house. So she went to a neighbor's house and called the cops. The officer arrives, tries to calm everything down, and gets Gay to put the knife down. And just when it looks like everything is okay, Gay moves to go back into the house, her daughters are still by the door so she'll have to go past them, and of course, she picks up her kitchen knife off the ground to put it back in the drawer...
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2007
- 11,925
- 2
- 0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: palehorse74
She had a knife and the cop thought his life was in danger, even for just one moment?
NOBODY is taught to "shoot to wound;" and nobody should be.
You aim center-mass, and you put the b*tch down. She deserved it. end-of-story.
You speak irrationally. It may be that you shoot center mass. It may be that was the only reasonable option the cop had. That just means that what was had to be. It does not mean she deserved it. If you've done what you had to do you don't need anyone on whom to assign guilt because you yourself need no additional defense.
No, he really doesn't, since i know that Palehorse is in my line of work and therefore has the same experiences and training i do i can tell ou that the ONLY choice when attacked with a deadly weapon is to shoot to kill, this is also something that most cops are taught as i understand it, JD50 is a cop and he has backed up this position.
It means she got what she deserved, you don't refuse to comply when you got a gun pointed at you in a civilian area unless you have a death wish, by wielding a knife she made sure he was going to shoot, so yeah, she got what she was looking for, may it be a lesson to others and in that way serve as a reminder of how not to behave. I think that is the best anyone can hope for at this point.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,806
- 6,362
- 126
Cops are put into more life threatening situations than the vast majority of us. That is why they end up killing so many. However, some of those deaths are unjustified and in the cases of Tazer deaths quite unexpected. Specifically on the Tazer issue though, many of those deaths are caused by Cops using Tazrs too casually and in situations where they never should have been used in the first place.
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2007
- 11,925
- 2
- 0
As i have had it explained to me (not a cop and never used a taser) tasers are used to contain a rowdy subject, before that the choice was the baton (or whatever you call it in Canada, we call it a baton, i think the USA'ians call it something else) or if that was not effective, a gunshot to the chest.
I believe most argue that it does indeed save lifes because it's mostly used instead of deadly force and though deaths do occur, the are very rare.
This is just my understanding on the matter, i can obviously not speak for the US police nor any other police force.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Non-lethals, like tasers, have been a double-edged sword. They give officers a non-lethal option where one didn't exist before, and that saves lives, but at the same time the "non-lethal" aspect of them can create a false confidence that leads to abuse and misuse, which has lead to casual use and deaths.
IMO officer training should have officers resorting to "non-lethal" only as an alternative to lethal force, i.e. they only use the taser when normally they would have been forced to resort to the gun.
edit: anyway, like I posted above, the taser argument doesn't apply to this situation. I didn't read anything that said the officer had a taser on him, so we should assume that he didn't.
IMO officer training should have officers resorting to "non-lethal" only as an alternative to lethal force, i.e. they only use the taser when normally they would have been forced to resort to the gun.
edit: anyway, like I posted above, the taser argument doesn't apply to this situation. I didn't read anything that said the officer had a taser on him, so we should assume that he didn't.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
What's sad is that there is even a name for it: "Suicide-by-cop"Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: palehorse74
She had a knife and the cop thought his life was in danger, even for just one moment?
NOBODY is taught to "shoot to wound;" and nobody should be.
You aim center-mass, and you put the b*tch down. She deserved it. end-of-story.
You speak irrationally. It may be that you shoot center mass. It may be that was the only reasonable option the cop had. That just means that what was had to be. It does not mean she deserved it. If you've done what you had to do you don't need anyone on whom to assign guilt because you yourself need no additional defense.
No, he really doesn't, since i know that Palehorse is in my line of work and therefore has the same experiences and training i do i can tell ou that the ONLY choice when attacked with a deadly weapon is to shoot to kill, this is also something that most cops are taught as i understand it, JD50 is a cop and he has backed up this position.
It means she got what she deserved, you don't refuse to comply when you got a gun pointed at you in a civilian area unless you have a death wish, by wielding a knife she made sure he was going to shoot, so yeah, she got what she was looking for, may it be a lesson to others and in that way serve as a reminder of how not to behave. I think that is the best anyone can hope for at this point.
Atreus21
Lifer
- Aug 21, 2007
- 12,001
- 571
- 126
In any human institution, there will be errors inherent.
If you want an effective police force, there will be innocents who will suffer when mistakes are made, although this lady wasn't quite an innocent.
That's another example of the sacrifice we make to live in a civilized society.
If you want an effective police force, there will be innocents who will suffer when mistakes are made, although this lady wasn't quite an innocent.
That's another example of the sacrifice we make to live in a civilized society.
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