Why is it so bad if you have a "frame"-damage with your car?
- Thread starter ndee
- Start date
structural integrity is an extremely good thing to have...
doesn't it make sense?
doesn't it make sense?
Sealy
Platinum Member
- Aug 4, 2002
- 2,438
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It's a bit of a safety issue I would think! If your car is not straight then the tires are going to be all wonky and you'll be all over the road! Just guessing!
well what would you be driving on if you didn't have a frame... if it's cracked or damaged you may be in deep trouble.
plus, it changes the way the car behaves on the road if you have a bent or damaged frame
it's really not good.
Originally posted by: ndee
ah okthanks. hehe
Well I mean there is no real hardcore technical answer... it's the frame of the car.. like the case of a computer or something.. kinda need it. heh..
Evadman
Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 30,990
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For the most part, there are 2 kinds of frames and car designs.
Most popular today are "sub frames" and "uni-body" among other names. The floor acts as the frame, and holds the car together. the front and rear suspension usually have a "sub frame" that suspend those parts. If the floorpan is tweaked, so the 4 wheels are no longer square to each other, it is a PITA and very costly to repair. The doors don't open right, car tracks wierd, ect. That is why one of the first things poeple who race camaro's and the like do, is connect the 2 sub frames to make the car "stiffer". A high horsepower engine will bend the "frame" enough to make it impossable for the doors to work.
The other style is called "frame on" construction. This is what most trucks and older cars are built on. There is a large "C" shaped piece of steel on each side of the vehicle. the body attaches to the top, the suspension to the bottom. The frame goes from front bumper to rear bumper, all one piece. this makes the vehicle exreamly strong compaired to a uni-body, but also very heavy. also, the uni-body tends to have better road mannors.
The Uni-body and Frame on construction both have their advantages and disadvantages. I don't really feel like goiong over every one I know, so I just gave a very basic look at the 2. And I am not getting into racing with stressed engines and such, no need I don't think
Most popular today are "sub frames" and "uni-body" among other names. The floor acts as the frame, and holds the car together. the front and rear suspension usually have a "sub frame" that suspend those parts. If the floorpan is tweaked, so the 4 wheels are no longer square to each other, it is a PITA and very costly to repair. The doors don't open right, car tracks wierd, ect. That is why one of the first things poeple who race camaro's and the like do, is connect the 2 sub frames to make the car "stiffer". A high horsepower engine will bend the "frame" enough to make it impossable for the doors to work.
The other style is called "frame on" construction. This is what most trucks and older cars are built on. There is a large "C" shaped piece of steel on each side of the vehicle. the body attaches to the top, the suspension to the bottom. The frame goes from front bumper to rear bumper, all one piece. this makes the vehicle exreamly strong compaired to a uni-body, but also very heavy. also, the uni-body tends to have better road mannors.
The Uni-body and Frame on construction both have their advantages and disadvantages. I don't really feel like goiong over every one I know, so I just gave a very basic look at the 2. And I am not getting into racing with stressed engines and such, no need I don't think
Originally posted by: Evadman
For the most part, there are 2 kinds of frames and car designs.
Most popular today are "sub frames" and "uni-body" among other names. The floor acts as the frame, and holds the car together. the front and rear suspension usually have a "sub frame" that suspend those parts. If the floorpan is tweaked, so the 4 wheels are no longer square to each other, it is a PITA and very costly to repair. The doors don't open right, car tracks wierd, ect. That is why one of the first things poeple who race camaro's and the like do, is connect the 2 sub frames to make the car "stiffer". A high horsepower engine will bend the "frame" enough to make it impossable for the doors to work.
The other style is called "frame on" construction. This is what most trucks and older cars are built on. There is a large "C" shaped piece of steel on each side of the vehicle. the body attaches to the top, the suspension to the bottom. The frame goes from front bumper to rear bumper, all one piece. this makes the vehicle exreamly strong compaired to a uni-body, but also very heavy. also, the uni-body tends to have better road mannors.
The Uni-body and Frame on construction both have their advantages and disadvantages. I don't really feel like goiong over every one I know, so I just gave a very basic look at the 2. And I am not getting into racing with stressed engines and such, no need I don't think
Thanks
Evadman
Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 30,990
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ya know, looking at my post, I never really answered your question
No matter what kind of frame you have, everything on the car is "referenced" from that frame. If the frame is damaged, the car starts acting wierd, going in other places besides where you point it and such. The rear wheels will no longer be driving over the tracks made by the front, you will be "crab-walking" this is bad, and things break. Fast
No matter what kind of frame you have, everything on the car is "referenced" from that frame. If the frame is damaged, the car starts acting wierd, going in other places besides where you point it and such. The rear wheels will no longer be driving over the tracks made by the front, you will be "crab-walking" this is bad, and things break. Fast
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Ever twist your sunglasses into a pretzel? Ever try to get them straight again?
It's the same thing.
I see cars on the road that have had "frame" damage. It's a joke because many of them are so crooked they look like they are crabbing down the road sideways. Once the frame is bent so much, no matter what you do you'll never get it straight again, and bad alignment that can't be corrected and eats through your tires is just the beginning of your problems.
It's the same thing.
I see cars on the road that have had "frame" damage. It's a joke because many of them are so crooked they look like they are crabbing down the road sideways. Once the frame is bent so much, no matter what you do you'll never get it straight again, and bad alignment that can't be corrected and eats through your tires is just the beginning of your problems.
Vehicles with frames (All large SUV's and all pick up trucks) can be repaired but no matter how well the job is done, it will never be good as when it was not damaged unless the frame is replaced.
Once there is physical bending in a hardened frame, the stresses from the bending weaken the metals integrity which can never be fixed completely.
Vehicles with UniBodies it's even worse, A UniBody is nothing more than a sheet metal box (The whole vehicle's structure), when that box get's damaged it not only weakens the area of impact, it weakens the whole structure because it has no frame to sit on.
As an example, take a cardboard box, it's relatively stiff and can support a good amount of weight, now remove one side of that box, it is now substantially weaker and cannot support the same amount of weight.
Taping the side back on seems to fix the problem with the box but it still is not as stiff and strong as was it when it was originally undamaged.
Once there is physical bending in a hardened frame, the stresses from the bending weaken the metals integrity which can never be fixed completely.
Vehicles with UniBodies it's even worse, A UniBody is nothing more than a sheet metal box (The whole vehicle's structure), when that box get's damaged it not only weakens the area of impact, it weakens the whole structure because it has no frame to sit on.
As an example, take a cardboard box, it's relatively stiff and can support a good amount of weight, now remove one side of that box, it is now substantially weaker and cannot support the same amount of weight.
Taping the side back on seems to fix the problem with the box but it still is not as stiff and strong as was it when it was originally undamaged.
A few have replied to this but this is my 2 cents. Full frame vehicles (better IMO but mostly trucks now) are built the old way with a seperate frame to support everything. Axle, engine, body, brake lines and fuel tank .... as these age they weaken, if the frame was painted and sealed it will last a good LONG time but not forever if made from steel it will rust, if you bought one of those older cars that was never rustproofed and it is over 10 year it is time to look at repair or replacement of the frame. As it becomes unsafe to drive as it reaches the breaking point. (another reason for the cash for clunkers buy back a few years ago). Unibody is just that it uses the floor pan, sub frame and body of the car to make a whole cage. Most unibodies do not last as long as a whole frame. Your unibody car has plastic trim that hides these weak points.... Check under that door trim at the bottom of the front door (old Taurus and Sables 1995-2005) tat plastic panel hid all that bad rust (rocker panel). Now that it is rusted away your car is unsafe to drive, the rust will continue till the floor pan weakens and the car sags (issues range from not driving straight, to windows not sealing to doors not shutting or stress bends and cracks) This is where the cancer is and it must be CUT OUT to fix it. Some people can extend the life of the car by using a sub frame connector or just cutting out all the rust replacing sheet metal re=welding and priming and painting and undercoating with rust inhibitors... Lot of work lots of cost. Back to full frame Full frame cars do not hide the structural rust damage as much. Lift the car and you can see the rust, cracks or missing chunks of steel. This can be easily welded over with plate steel or worse case un bolt frame and replaced. Unibodies are never quite the same. A full frame replacement can make your (I will guess old car unless its a Hyundai or Kia) drive like new again. Unless you can do this yourself it gets costly. Is it worth it? For a newer car probably not, for a classic 1969 Camero or Mustang again it depends HOW MUCH MONEY you throw at it. Really the classic car market is about driving a car unlike most on the road. With a full frame your car and look totally rusted out like a junk yard car ,but still have a good strong frame. Your Unibody car make look great till you inspect all that hidden rust which makes that car worthless. Always have it inspected if buying used (cause you buy it as is) not a used car dealers fault you bought his junk car, he bought from an auction cause no one wanted it anymore. .
GagHalfrunt
Lifer
- Apr 19, 2001
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Jon-T
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The internet is creating an information time machine. Your posts will be visible years from now. look at the comments in youtube videos.
The comment you make today may be analyzed by someone 10 years from now.
Do old books and information just dissapear?
The comment you make today may be analyzed by someone 10 years from now.
Do old books and information just dissapear?
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