Why is it people complain about 60hz monitors?

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Googer

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
81
Originally posted by: Bluestealth
Ewww 60 hz.... I can see the flicker.... even 75 hz bothers me sometimes
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Same here. Try running 75Hz or higher for a few months, then swich back to 60Hz and you will immeadiatly notice the differace. Also for me 75Hz and higher gives me much smoother images.
 
J

Jiggz

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2001
4,329
0
76
60Hz causes flicker because it operates at the same frequency as the power supply, i.e. 120V, 60~. Since the monitor is not entirely in-synch with the house power, you experience flicker. To reduce the flickering, you either raise your refresh rate or reduce lighting. Better yet, use DC powered lighting. For refresh rates, the closer you get to 90hz the lesser is the flickering.
 
A

Aepheme

Member
Sep 12, 2005
174
0
76
Ever noticed that the flicker seems exaggerated when you look out the side of your eye at the monitor?

60hz is a horrible flicker from looking straight on, but when we get to 75hz, I can only tell if I look out the side of my eye. 85hz and up is actually comfortable.

I wonder why that is? I read somewhere about how our eyes are that way to allow us to respond quickly to peripheral movement, but the only info I can find now is about rods and cones. And it seems like the rods (more concentrated in the peripheral vision) have a slower response time than than cones (in the center).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell

Hrmmm...
 
Rubycon

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
It really depends on the monitor. All phosphor coatings have different persistence values. A higher persistence means the afterglow is longer. This essentially acts as a capacitor (buffer) to ease the perceived flicker. Yes everyone's eyesight is different too! ;)

If you use an LCD most likely your refresh is 60Hz. Of course there is no flicker because the light SOURCE comes from a CCFL backlight that's driven at much higher frequencies. :)

MOST will agree that the typical CRT tends to show flicker below 85Hz. On a moving ship this is a real problem as when things move you tend to notice the flicker MUCH more, just as if move your head side to side while starting at a neon glow lamp or SOME fluorescent displays you can see the flicker. I can see the flicker on the fluorescent displays of my Technics SL-P1300 CD decks on rougher sea days. :Q
 
F

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
Originally posted by: Jiggz
60Hz causes flicker because it operates at the same frequency as the power supply, i.e. 120V, 60~. Since the monitor is not entirely in-synch with the house power, you experience flicker. To reduce the flickering, you either raise your refresh rate or reduce lighting. Better yet, use DC powered lighting. For refresh rates, the closer you get to 90hz the lesser is the flickering.
Click to expand...

I think most modern monitors have transformers in them that eliminate the 60hz AC power flicker, instead the flicker is solely due 60hz being a rather low refresh rate for such a high res viewed so closely.

However, some monitors seem to strain to do high refresh rates at high res and the image can actually be harder on the eyes. For instance, my old sun workstation monitor became rather blurry at 1600x1200 at 100hz.
 
X

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Maybe it's because the higher the refresh rate (higher bandwidth), the blurrier things get on a CRT. Blur can give you eye strain.
 
O

obeseotron

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,910
0
0
I never found 60 hz to be a big deal. I can tell when a display is set at 60, I usually change it, but it doesn't drive me crazy or anything if I can't. I suppose everyone has different eyes, but I really don't think it is a huge problem as the vast majority of people have their monitor set to 60 and have no idea what a refresh rate is
 
K

Koharski

Senior member
Jan 27, 2006
622
1
76
actually, I'm not to sure about the PSU thing, but heres what i've heard:

so your screen draws pictures by stimulating colored phosphors and they glow. the phosphors then begin to fade and they are refreshed. With 60hz on most monitors, by the time the phosphor is refreshed at 60 hz it has allready started to fade, and then you get flicker.

On TV sets, the refresh rate is olny 30hz but you don't notice because the phosphor has a much lower fade rate, due to the low resolutions of a TV.
 
SparkyJJO

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
60Hz gives me eyestrain and headache. 75Hz minimum although that is pushing it. 85 and up preferred.

But now I have an LCD so it doesn't matter anymore :D
 
I

imported_Tick

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2005
4,682
1
0
Originally posted by: MS Dawn
It really depends on the monitor. All phosphor coatings have different persistence values. A higher persistence means the afterglow is longer. This essentially acts as a capacitor (buffer) to ease the perceived flicker. Yes everyone's eyesight is different too! ;)

If you use an LCD most likely your refresh is 60Hz. Of course there is no flicker because the light SOURCE comes from a CCFL backlight that's driven at much higher frequencies. :)

MOST will agree that the typical CRT tends to show flicker below 85Hz. On a moving ship this is a real problem as when things move you tend to notice the flicker MUCH more, just as if move your head side to side while starting at a neon glow lamp or SOME fluorescent displays you can see the flicker. I can see the flicker on the fluorescent displays of my Technics SL-P1300 CD decks on rougher sea days. :Q
Click to expand...

The persistence may be a factor, because I bought a very nice CRT. Also, I KNOW the power at my house is seriously out-of-spec, so that might be a factor.
 
M

Madwand1

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2006
3,309
0
76
The center of vision is going to have more persistence, so it's best to judge flicker using peripheral vision. This is one source of disagreement / why some people don?t notice the flicker ? they?re using the part of their eyes that doesn?t let them notice it as well. Now if you see flicker with peripheral vision but not direct, you could argue that it?s fine. Conversely you could argue that your eyes in all do notice the flicker, so you should help them out and get rid of it. That?s my take.
 
G

Goi

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
6,766
7
91
Originally posted by: alilxmas
60 man I cant remember the last time I was below 100. even in 16x12 res
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Wow, what monitor do you have? Even my Dell P1130 can't do 16x12@100Hz. Even at 85Hz, which I run at, the image looks noticably blurrer than at 75Hz.
 
0

003

Member
Mar 29, 2006
60
0
0
Back when I had a CRT, anything under 85hz was unbareable. Now I have a LCD and refresh rates are a thing of the past.
 
Mrvile

Mrvile

Lifer
Oct 16, 2004
14,066
1
0
I used to run 60 but now I'm doing 85. Whenever I go back to 60 though I don't notice any difference (even for extended periods of time), it's just a little brighter and clearer.
 
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