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Why is it everytime they approach peace or a settlement between the Palestinians and Israelis, the Palestinians start...

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KGB1

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2001
2,998
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Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
You need to realize something about all Islamic nations...they are deathly afraid of peace. The leaders are afraid because they won't be able to use fear and hatred to wield their citizenry to their wishes. The citizenry of the middle east are afriad because once they no longer have foreign powers to blame for all their problems they'll finally have to look up and down themselves in a mirror and go "Why the hell am I freaking wearing a robe and sandals in the year 2003?"
Let us not forget who set the example for them after ww1. Sure they want to dominate their land, with the oil revenue still in demand; they have the resurces to keep their power.
 

Gand1

Golden Member
Nov 17, 1999
1,026
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Also there is another "small" problem. I'm not going to look for them right now, but someone posted them in another topic. There is a large fundamental teaching specific to hating and killing a jew. I'm not saying what either side is doing is right or wrong. They both have major wrongs but, Jews are not taught in grade school that Arabs are the devil and need to be annihilated off this planet. The Arab world teaches this about Jews. Maybe if this practice would stop there might be some movement towards peace. Hmmm... just a thought.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
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Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
You need to realize something about all Islamic nations...they are deathly afraid of peace. The leaders are afraid because they won't be able to use fear and hatred to wield their citizenry to their wishes. The citizenry of the middle east are afriad because once they no longer have foreign powers to blame for all their problems they'll finally have to look up and down themselves in a mirror and go "Why the hell am I freaking wearing a robe and sandals in the year 2003?"


bigot
Your sense of humor is almost as sharp as your intellect. Dull that is.

"The citizenry of the middle east are afriad because once they no longer have foreign powers to blame for all their problems they'll finally have to look up and down themselves in a mirror and go "Why the hell am I freaking wearing a robe and sandals in the year 2003?"

Oh ha ha, ha ha the "humor" is killing me. So funny. Well done Mr Comedian.
 

kaizersose

Golden Member
May 15, 2003
1,196
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Originally posted by: Whitling
...Palestinians, including Palestinian children, have been killed in about a 10 to 1 ratio.

Welcome to our planet.
WRONG.

while more palestinians have been killed, you have to look at the demographics of those who are dead.
a. more israeli women have died (numerically) than palestinian
b. the israeli deaths are spread even over all age groups and sexes because the palestinian terrorists kill indiscriminately. palestinian deaths are almost 90% adult males.

detailed statistics breakdown

so what planet are you talking about?
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
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Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: IGBT
Arafats biggest fear is having to govern the psycos and murders he's surrounded him self with. It's easier to just continue killing Jewish children...
Palestinian boy critically wounded by Israeli gunfire

Agence France Presse
8 October 2003

NABLUS, West Bank, Oct 9-- A Palestinian boy was critically wounded in the northern West Bank town of Qalqilya late Wednesday after Israeli forces opened fire on two children throwing stones, Palestinian medical and security sources said.

Medical sources said the 12-year-old boy was in critical condition after being hit in the head by a bullet as he and a friend threw stones at Israeli soldiers near the West Bank barrier in the area.

Over the past 16 months, Israel has been building a controversial barrier in and around most of the West Bank in a bid to prevent infiltrations by Palestinian militants.

The move has provoked a deep-seated bitterness and anger among the Palestinians because it slices up several thousand hectares (acres) of Palestinian territory and cuts off large swathes of some of the
region's most fertile land.

They also fear it is the precursor of a formal border, although Israel has repeatedly stressed it is only a security measure and has no political significance.
Stones can kill, it's not intelligent to throw stones at solidiers with guns. Call it Natural Selection at work. In the US if you were throwing stones at police officers with the intent to harm them you have a good chance of getting shot also. Their age has almost no bearing on the fact that they were directly threatening the lives of those soldiers.
 
Dec 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
You need to realize something about all Islamic nations...they are deathly afraid of peace. The leaders are afraid because they won't be able to use fear and hatred to wield their citizenry to their wishes. The citizenry of the middle east are afriad because once they no longer have foreign powers to blame for all their problems they'll finally have to look up and down themselves in a mirror and go "Why the hell am I freaking wearing a robe and sandals in the year 2003?"


bigot
Your sense of humor is almost as sharp as your intellect. Dull that is.

"The citizenry of the middle east are afriad because once they no longer have foreign powers to blame for all their problems they'll finally have to look up and down themselves in a mirror and go "Why the hell am I freaking wearing a robe and sandals in the year 2003?"

Oh ha ha, ha ha the "humor" is killing me. So funny. Well done Mr Comedian.
Interwoven is a hint at what I'm really suggesting. That it's far easier to point your finger at other people and blame them for your problems than it is to examine yourself and make the necessary adjustments. A universal truth that extends from the Middle East to the parisan politics of the USA to interpersonal squabbles.

Next time I'll refrain from lightening it up and use nice small words for ya...k?

P.S. That's twice you've come to GrGr's defense. You really think he needs it or are you related?
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
0
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Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Your sense of humor is almost as sharp as your intellect. Dull that is.


Originally posted by: GrGr
"The citizenry of the middle east are afriad because once they no longer have foreign powers to blame for all their problems they'll finally have to look up and down themselves in a mirror and go "Why the hell am I freaking wearing a robe and sandals in the year 2003?"

Oh ha ha, ha ha the "humor" is killing me. So funny. Well done Mr Comedian.
Interwoven is a hint at what I'm really suggesting. That it's far easier to point your finger at other people and blame them for your problems than it is to examine yourself and make the necessary adjustments. A universal truth that extends from the Middle East to the parisan politics of the USA to interpersonal squabbles.

Next time I'll refrain from lightening it up and use nice small words for ya...k?

P.S. That's twice you've come to GrGr's defense. You really think he needs it or are you related?[/quote]


Hehe, nice to see that Moonbeam has influenced your thinking. Oh, and I came to my own "defense", thank you very much. Your "interwoven hint" is true of course, but that goes for all people in the Middle East, not just arabs (who you singled out). The US has supported many of the oppressive Arab regimes over the years and that is part of the reason why the US is so hated in the Middle East. The oppressive regimes in Saudi Arabia and Egypt for example owe much to the US, as does Sharon. The US (and British) policy towards the Middle East in modern times has been to prevent a pan-Arab unification at all costs. To solely blame the oppressed Arab people for their misfortune is shortsighted at best.

 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
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Kaizersose. Your statistics crawl on their belly like a reptile. The "report" is a little problematic. But, I was wrong about a 10 to 1 ratio of deaths. It's somewhere between 3 and 4 to one.

First, your report comes from an Israeli anti-terroris organization. The board of directors is composed of (1) Shabati Shavit, Chairman and former director of the Mossad, (2) Aharon Scherf, former director of Israel's Foreign Affairs Division and a senior official in prime minister's office (I hope the PM wasn't Sharon), and (3) Uriel Reichman President of the Interdisciplinary Center Herzliya, whatever that is. The board of trustees reads like a who's who of retired Israeli military. Sounds impartial to me. And speaking of impartial, I know of no impartial sources on this particular point. I'll use statistics from the Palestinian Red Crescent Society. The statistics are at this site. Red Cresent.

Second, in the report you cite, the weasel words come out early and stay there. This report isn't about total deaths, it's about total "noncombatant" deaths. And since any Palestinian with a rock in his hand is a combatant, it skews the statistics. (Now there's a surprise.) The report assumes that the death of a woman or child is more important than the death of a "combatant."

Third, the report is long on itty bitty bar graphs and short on absolute numbers. Among the few numbers in the report is the total of 1900 Palestinian deaths since the start of the al-Aqsa Intifada (9/2000). It doesn't say whether this includes the deaths of Palestinians in custody. The Red Crescent Society says 2483 deaths. The report does not say how many children or women were killed. You can try to figure it out from the itty bitties but I found it not worth the trouble since they deal only with deaths that the report generators classify as noncombatant. Red Crescent Palestinian Totals: (1) Children under 18 =324, (2) Children under 12 = 110, and (3) Women 145. With the "statistics" your report uses I'm reminded that a lifetime of swatting flies does not make one an entomologist.
 

Odoacer

Senior member
Jun 30, 2001
809
0
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Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
You need to realize something about all Islamic nations...they are deathly afraid of peace. The leaders are afraid because they won't be able to use fear and hatred to wield their citizenry to their wishes. The citizenry of the middle east are afriad because once they no longer have foreign powers to blame for all their problems they'll finally have to look up and down themselves in a mirror and go "Why the hell am I freaking wearing a robe and sandals in the year 2003?"

While I may not exactly agree with the humor, he does bring up a good point - these are Islamic nations we're talking about. The separation of church and state has worked well for the Western world, perhaps it's time the Mideast gave it a shot.

Don't anybody give me drivel either on how many times Bush has invoked God... There's nothing wrong with asserting your faith, but a lot of these countries rely on Islamic law, Islamic justice, etc. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it does leave quite a bit open to interpretation - al Qaeda believes they have the backing of the Koran, while the rest of the civilized world disagrees. Things like that.
 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
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Six Palestinians killed, 40 wounded, 1 Israeli soldier lightly wounded as CNN reports it at 2:00 p.m. 10/10/03. 40 tanks invaded Rafah. Why do those Palestinians get angry? CNN Report
 

replicator

Senior member
Oct 7, 2003
431
0
0
There are elements on both sides of the conflict that don't want a settlement. You can't say all Israelis, or Palestinians, want to reignite the fuse evertime there are negotiations taking place.

That being said, in the occasions where some militant from the west bank blows himself up, Israel falls for the bait and uses the opportunity to create another dozen suicide bombers by launching a missle into a densely populated area, creating more victims.

It's a viscious cycle.

The latest suicide bomber, the female, was a 27 year old law student, attempting to avenge the death of her brother.
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/10/04/israel_haifa031004

Of course Palestinians want their own state, however, little has been done to assure them that this will happen. Building more settlements during peace discussions, then being fenced in and divided from your neighbours does not do much to build confidence and restore hope to people.



 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
Originally posted by: kaizersose
Originally posted by: Whitling
...Palestinians, including Palestinian children, have been killed in about a 10 to 1 ratio.

Welcome to our planet.
WRONG.

while more palestinians have been killed, you have to look at the demographics of those who are dead.
a. more israeli women have died (numerically) than palestinian
b. the israeli deaths are spread even over all age groups and sexes because the palestinian terrorists kill indiscriminately. palestinian deaths are almost 90% adult males.

detailed statistics breakdown

so what planet are you talking about?
While Israelis account for about 27 percent of the total ?Intifada? fatalities, they represent over 43 percent of the noncombatant victims.
That is taken from your link.

I like your comment about the Palestinians killing indiscriminantly.
The indiscriminant Palestinians killings have les to almost half the total non combatant deaths. This means the Israeli army, who only target worthy targets (combatants) have managed to "accidentally" kill more non-combatants than the Palestinians, who aim to kill non-combatants.

Either the Palestinians are bad at what they're trying to do, or the Israeli's are bad at limiting who they kill to combatants.
 
Oct 3, 2003
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Remember - Palestinians are Arab terrorists. Nothing more. They live to kill.
If you have ever watched CBS news, they featured many Arab terrorists, in their wanna
be Ku Klux Klan head gear, declaring that the war on Israel would NEVER end!
That was their own word - NEVER end.
Until Arabs quit embracing mindless, religious violence, there will never be peace. Even if they got their
supposed "rightfull?" land, they will keep stirring up the potty until it stiincks.

I think the Israeli's should take all they can get and use the weapons we gave them for what they were meant for! That stuff ain't for looking at! I would give them Carte' Blanche to do whatever they please! We could look the other way for a few months...
Bye, the way, I am Christian. And A liberal Democrat.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
Originally posted by: chazzheatherly
Remember - Palestinians are Arab terrorists. Nothing more. They live to kill.
If you have ever watched CBS news, they featured many Arab terrorists, in their wanna
be Ku Klux Klan head gear, declaring that the war on Israel would NEVER end!
That was their own word - NEVER end.
Until Arabs quit embracing mindless, religious violence, there will never be peace. Even if they got their
supposed "rightfull?" land, they will keep stirring up the potty until it stiincks.

I think the Israeli's should take all they can get and use the weapons we gave them for what they were meant for! That stuff ain't for looking at! I would give them Carte' Blanche to do whatever they please! We could look the other way for a few months...
Bye, the way, I am Christian. And A liberal Democrat.
Oh go die in a small hole.

Are you saying a 2 month old baby is a terrorist? I'm sure there are 2 month old Palestinians babies, unless they've all been killed by the IDF (you never know).

All Christian Lib Dems with a screen name on AT of chazzheatherly should be banned from this forum forever.
Screw personal attacks, this guy just seems to act like a total ass in ever post he's made, be it P&N, software, video, OT or anywhere else.

The views of some do not necessarily show the views of all, the actions of some do not represent the actions of everyone.

I personally didn't want the UK to go to war with Iraq. Because Tony Blair decided we should, does that mean I suport his actions and I believe we should have gone to war? No.
Saying "Palestinians are Arab terrorists" is like saying all US and UK citizens thought we should go to war. It is, quite simply, not true.
 
Oct 3, 2003
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Every Arab I see on TV is a terrorist. If there are Palestinians moderates calling for peace, and land settlement? where are they? I don't see em. All I see are Arabs in Hoods with AK-47's ready to murder Israeli civilians.
Defend that, you whiney limey!
Man, I love you brits, and respect you all for being our father country - but really? Where have
your guts gone?
Over hear, we execute people that piss us off. End of the line. Do you fellows not do this?
Love to you all, Chazz!
 

Pers

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2001
1,603
1
0
Originally posted by: chazzheatherly
Every Arab I see on TV is a terrorist. If there are Palestinians moderates calling for peace, and land settlement? where are they? I don't see em. All I see are Arabs in Hoods with AK-47's ready to murder Israeli civilians.
Defend that, you whiney limey!
Man, I love you brits, and respect you all for being our father country - but really? Where have
your guts gone?
Over hear, we execute people that piss us off. End of the line. Do you fellows not do this?
Love to you all, Chazz!
dude seriously - quit being such a damn attention whore and shut the fvck up.


 

mrCide

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 1999
6,187
0
76
Originally posted by: chazzheatherly
Every Arab I see on TV is a terrorist. If there are Palestinians moderates calling for peace, and land settlement? where are they? I don't see em. All I see are Arabs in Hoods with AK-47's ready to murder Israeli civilians.
Defend that, you whiney limey!
Man, I love you brits, and respect you all for being our father country - but really? Where have
your guts gone?
Over hear, we execute people that piss us off. End of the line. Do you fellows not do this?
Love to you all, Chazz!
What's with these idiots coming in P&N spewing nonsense? You and ViRGE or whatever his name was, what a joke. Get out of here or STFU.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,212
126
The sad thing is that a majority on both sides may not like the other, but could deal with some agreement that gives and takes something from both. The problem is that a minority on both sides hate each other's guts. This allows them to kill which is what they want, and it also gives the added bonus of getting or retaining power.

 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
Originally posted by: chazzheatherly
Every Arab I see on TV is a terrorist. If there are Palestinians moderates calling for peace, and land settlement? where are they? I don't see em. All I see are Arabs in Hoods with AK-47's ready to murder Israeli civilians.
Defend that, you whiney limey!
Man, I love you brits, and respect you all for being our father country - but really? Where have
your guts gone?
Over hear, we execute people that piss us off. End of the line. Do you fellows not do this?
Love to you all, Chazz!
Maybe all you see is Arab terrorists because you watch Fox news. But then again, news is never biased(!) (sarcasm), especially not Fox news.
Why would US press cover non-terrorist Arabs, it works against US support for the war on Iraq/US support for Israel.

We do not have capital punishment here (notice, here). Maybe we have gone beyond it, or alternatively, killing people who may be innocent, is not something we're happy with (not everyone who gets the death penalty is guilty).
And if you execute people who "piss you off", why the hell aren't you dead?
Guts? Are you saying that standing behind our beliefs is not having guts? Personally I have always been against the war on Iraq, I kind of supported the Israeli's until I learned more, and now believe they are in the wrong.
I think that sticking by your beliefs, or changing your mind when you have become more informed, and admitting you were wrong, takes more guts than having a much superior army and using it to squash a much weaker oppostition.

Maybe you need to open your eyes and look harder to see Arabs without AK47's.
Where's the news story in showing Arabs without guns, or non-terrorist Arabs?
 
Jan 12, 2003
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..mods show an act of kindness, or as he put it, "mercy." :)


chazzheatherly,

Welcome to AnandTech Forums, and especially to our Politics and News forum. So far, almost everything you have posted is useless, boring rants that do not contribute to any discussion in which you have posted. If that is the best you have to offer, you will quickly find that you are intellectually outgunned, and we may have to ban your account as an act of mercy.

Please keep your replies on topic and back up your opinions with facts and links. And please do not start more threads to continue the same rants you have posted previously. They are obviously lame, unintelligen troll posts intended only to start flame wars.

Ciff Notes version: Do better, or go elsewhere.

AnandTech Moderator



Ve-ry nice :) I liked the "If that is the best you have to offer, you will quickly find that you are intellectually outgunned, and we may have to ban your account as an act of mercy." part :)

 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
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In 1850 there were 80 per cent Arabs in Palestine. The rest were 15 per cent Christians and 5 per cent Jews. The first Zionist settlement in Palestine was established in 1878. In 1896 the Austrian author Theodor Hertzl published "Der Judenstaat" that advocated a Jewish state in Palestine or elsewhere (South Africa or South America). So the idea of Israel is originally an "artificial" political (Zionist) idea. Over the next decades the Jewish immigration grew to such proportions that conflicts between the Arabs and Jews were unavoidable. By the end of WWII the Jews in Palestine had increased, mostly through immigration (official or illegal), to about 31 per cent with a landownership of 6 per cent. By this time three main Zionist terrororganizations had emerged: The Haganah, Irgon and Stern.

1945 to 1948 are extremely volatile years with several assassinations (lord Moyne, British Minister on Nov. 1944, Folke Bernadotte, UN peacebroker in 1948, both by Stern), terrorattacks (Deir Yassin massacre, bombing of the King David Hotel) and ethnic clensing operations (coastal villages i.e) performed by the the Haganah, Irgon and Stern. By 1948 the Zionists had organized a well equipped and highly trained army of about 90,000. In the early months of 1948 the Zionist organizations had performed eight major operations under the Haganah's Plan D ("Dalet"). These offensive operations took place on Arab land outside the territory alloted to the Israelis by the UN in November 1947. The Haganah attacked and captured i.e. the city of Jaffa which the UN had ruled belonged to the Arabs. By contrast the Arab forces were very much a third world army, ill-equipped and poorly trained.

After WWII the British had dropped the hot potato of Palestine in the lap of the UN who on November 29th, 1947 voted on an amended partition plan calling for a 56.5 % of Palestine for a Jewish state, 43 % for a Palestinian one and internationalization of Jerusalem. This despite the fact that the Jews only consisted of about 31 per cent of the population in Palestine and owned even less land (7 per cent).

On May 14th 1948 the state of Israel was declared in Tel Aviv. On the following day, May 15th, the British mandate over Palestine ended and the Israeli state declaration took effect.

The Israeli aggression forced the neighbouring Arab countries (Jordan, Syria and Egypt) to go into the areas allotted to the Palestinians where the Israelis were operating. However by the end of 1948 the Arabs had lost the war and the Dispossession began.

No land allotted to Israel by the UN had been attacked by Arab forces. All fighting had taken place on land alloted to the Palestinians by the UN. By the end of 1948 Israel had conquered 78 per cent of Palestine. Far more than what the UN had alloted. All maps were redrawn and given new Hebrew names. 750 000 Palestinians became refugees in their own homeland.

"Palestine was divided into three parts. The 1949 armistice agreements gave Israel control over 78 percent of the territory of British Mandate Palestine. Jordan occupied and annexed East Jerusalem and the hill country of central Palestine, thereafter known as the ?West Bank? of the Jordan River. Egypt took temporary control of the coastal plain around the city of Gaza, later referred to as the Gaza Strip. Both Jordan and Egypt held on to these respective territories until the 1967 war, during which Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza. The Palestinian Arab state provided for in the United Nations partition plan was never established."

http://www.palestinecenter.org/palestine/1948war.html
http://www.palestine-net.com/history/bhist.html
http://www.pmwatch.org/pmw/snakebite/Wars.html
 

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