Why is Islam disrespected?

ValuedCustomer

Senior member
May 5, 2004
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I agree w/ pretty much everything this guy is saying.. somehow Islam has taken on the role of the emperor w/ the new clothes. The world (Islamic and otherwise) for some reason is afraid to call bull$hit on the extremists of Islam. Myself and most I'd think don't see Islam as "bad" or "evil" or "superstition" or whatever.. The extremists don't represent Islam as a whole so why aren't the good folks/majority stepping up and saying so? -





Why Islam is disrespected
Jeff Jacoby

May 20, 2005

It was front-page news this week when Newsweek retracted a report claiming that a US interrogator in Guantanamo had flushed a copy of the Koran down a toilet. Everywhere it was noted that Newsweek's story had sparked widespread Muslim rioting, in which at least 17 people were killed. But there was no mention of deadly protests triggered in recent years by comparable acts of desecration against other religions.

No one recalled, for example, that American Catholics lashed out in violent rampages in 1989, after photographer Andres Serrano's ''Piss Christ" -- a photograph of a crucifix submerged in urine -- was included in an exhibition subsidized by the National Endowment for the Arts. Or that they rioted in 1992 when singer Sinead O'Connor, appearing on ''Saturday Night Live," ripped up a photograph of Pope John Paul II.

There was no reminder that Jewish communities erupted in lethal violence in 2000, after Arabs demolished Joseph's Tomb, torching the ancient shrine and murdering a young rabbi who tried to save a Torah from the flames. And nobody noted that Buddhists went on a killing spree in 2001 in response to the destruction of two priceless, 1,500-year-old statues of Buddha by the Taliban government in Afghanistan.

Of course, there was a good reason all these bloody protests went unremembered in the coverage of the Newsweek affair: They never occurred.

Christians, Jews, and Buddhists don't lash out in homicidal rage when their religion is insulted. They don't call for holy war and riot in the streets. It would be unthinkable today for a mainstream priest, rabbi, or lama to demand that a blasphemer be slain. But when Reuters reported what Mohammad Hanif, the imam of a Muslim seminary in Pakistan, said about the alleged Koran-flushers -- ''They should be hung. They should be killed in public so that no one can dare to insult Islam and its sacred symbols" -- was any reader surprised?

The Muslim riots should have been met by an international upwelling of outrage and condemnation. From every part of the civilized world should have come denunciations of those who would react to the supposed destruction of a book with brutal threats and the slaughter of 17 innocent people. But the chorus of condemnation was directed not at the killers and the fanatics who incited them, but at Newsweek.

From the White House down, the magazine was slammed -- for running an item it should have known might prove incendiary, for relying on a shaky source, for its animus toward the military and the war. Over and over, Newsweek was blamed for the riots' death toll. Conservative pundits in particular piled on. ''Newsweek lied, people died" was the headline on Michelle Malkin's popular website. At NationalReview.com, Paul Marshall of Freedom House fumed: ''What planet do these [Newsweek] people live on? . . . Anybody with a little knowledge could have told them it was likely that people would die as a result of the article." All of Marshall's choler was reserved for Newsweek; he had no criticism at all -- not a word -- for the marauders in the Muslim street.

Then there was Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who announced at a Senate hearing that she had a message for ''Muslims in America and throughout the world." And what was that message? That decent people do not resort to murder just because someone has offended their religious sensibilities? That the primitive bloodlust raging in Afghanistan and Pakistan was evidence of the Muslim world's dysfunctional political culture? That the Bush administration would redouble its efforts to defeat the Islamofascist radicals who use religion as an excuse to foment violence and terror?

No: Her message was that ''disrespect for the Holy Koran is not now, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be, tolerated by the United States. We honor the sacred books of all the world's great religions."

Granted, Rice spoke while the rioting was still taking place and her goal was to reduce the anti-American fever. But what ''Muslims in America and throughout the world" most need to hear is not pandering sweet-talk. What they need is a blunt reminder that the real desecration of Islam is not what some interrogator in Guantanamo might have done to the Koran. It is what totalitarian Muslim zealots have been doing to innocent human beings in the name of Islam. It is 9/11 and Beslan and Bali and Daniel Pearl and the USS Cole. It is trains in Madrid and schoolbuses in Israel and an ''insurgency" in Iraq that slaughters Muslims as they pray and vote and line up for work. It is Hamas and Al Qaeda and sermons filled with infidel-hatred and exhortations to ''martyrdom."

But what disgraces Islam above all is the vast majority of the planet's Muslims saying nothing and doing nothing about the jihadist cancer eating away at their religion. It is Free Muslims Against Terrorism, a pro-democracy organization, calling on Muslims and Middle Easterners to ''converge on our nation's capital for a rally against terrorism" this month -- and having only 50 people show up.

Yes, Islam is disrespected. That will only change when throngs of passionate Muslims show up for rallies against terrorism, and when rabble-rousers trying to gin up a riot over a defiled Koran can't get the time of day.

©2005 Boston Globe

LINK


Fixed it for you:)
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
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2
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It's almost like a racism of low expectations -- we make exceptions for fundamentalist Muslims (when they behave in violent, primitive, barbaric, brutal, uncivilized ways) because they are foreign and we don't want to be the imperialist westerner running about the planet criticizing foreign cultures. But really we should be reasserting our liberal-democratic values and expressing our outrage at the death threats and threats of violence being made by these awful people.

In general, I think fundamentalist Muslims need to get the fvck over themselves. People have a right to say whatever, including things that are critcal of their religion. Please deal with that, Muslim people. :|

 

ValuedCustomer

Senior member
May 5, 2004
759
0
0
I agree w/ pretty much everything this guy is saying.. somehow Islam has taken on the role of the emperor w/ the new clothes. The world (Islamic and otherwise) for some reason is afraid to call bull$hit on the extremists of Islam. Myself and most I'd think don't see Islam as "bad" or "evil" or "superstition" or whatever.. The extremists don't represent Islam as a whole so why aren't the good folks/majority stepping up and saying so? -


 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer
The extremists don't represent Islam as a whole so why aren't the good folks/majority stepping up and saying so? -

Well, that's the problem, the extremists DO actually represent the views of the majority of Muslims. There are very few so-called progressive Muslims, and they are almost all living in Western nations.
 

ToeJam13

Senior member
May 18, 2004
504
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The problem with (radical) Islam is that its followers are like children having a temper-tantrum. When you displease them, they tend to pout, kick and scream.

Islam would not have the power it has today over the West if it were to act like Russia. When the Muslims do something bad to them, they get even and punish the people who do it. The terrorists who took over the Moscow theatre? Dead. The terrorists who hijacked a school? Dead, with organizers dead/captured. When the Muslims protest Russia, how do they respond? Indifference.

Sure, Chechen terrorists are still on the job, but the rest of the Middle East rarely blasts them for their heavy-handed actions against the guerilla agents from that region.

Perhaps it?s because it?s a civil war. Perhaps it?s because they are too busy protesting America. Or maybe it?s because Russia just shrugs it off and ignores the hissy-fit that the Islamic world is throwing right now.

Just my 2 cents?


 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,855
4,967
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Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer
I agree w/ pretty much everything this guy is saying.. somehow Islam has taken on the role of the emperor w/ the new clothes. The world (Islamic and otherwise) for some reason is afraid to call bull$hit on the extremists of Islam. Myself and most I'd think don't see Islam as "bad" or "evil" or "superstition" or whatever.. The extremists don't represent Islam as a whole so why aren't the good folks/majority stepping up and saying so? -

I don't know that they would feel it is their place to do so. Or why.

If a Christian fundy bombs a clinic, is it the duty of all Christians to attend rallies?

If he were Black, should all Blacks be expected to publicly denounce him?

It it were a woman, would all women be criticized for not "rallying"?
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer
The extremists don't represent Islam as a whole so why aren't the good folks/majority stepping up and saying so? -

Well, that's the problem, the extremists DO actually represent the views of the majority of Muslims. There are very few so-called progressive Muslims, and they are almost all living in Western nations.


I agree. I was floored when I realized what was said in the Koran. Add to that the literal interpretation, you have a recipe for death, oppression, and mayhem in less developed countries.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
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Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer
Why Islam is disrespected
Jeff Jacoby

May 20, 2005

It was front-page news this week when Newsweek retracted a report claiming that a US interrogator in Guantanamo had flushed a copy of the Koran down a toilet. Everywhere it was noted that Newsweek's story had sparked widespread Muslim rioting, in which at least 17 people were killed. But there was no mention of deadly protests triggered in recent years by comparable acts of desecration against other religions.

No one recalled, for example, that American Catholics lashed out in violent rampages in 1989, after photographer Andres Serrano's ''Piss Christ" -- a photograph of a crucifix submerged in urine -- was included in an exhibition subsidized by the National Endowment for the Arts. Or that they rioted in 1992 when singer Sinead O'Connor, appearing on ''Saturday Night Live," ripped up a photograph of Pope John Paul II.

There was no reminder that Jewish communities erupted in lethal violence in 2000, after Arabs demolished Joseph's Tomb, torching the ancient shrine and murdering a young rabbi who tried to save a Torah from the flames. And nobody noted that Buddhists went on a killing spree in 2001 in response to the destruction of two priceless, 1,500-year-old statues of Buddha by the Taliban government in Afghanistan.

Of course, there was a good reason all these bloody protests went unremembered in the coverage of the Newsweek affair: They never occurred.

Christians, Jews, and Buddhists don't lash out in homicidal rage when their religion is insulted. They don't call for holy war and riot in the streets. It would be unthinkable today for a mainstream priest, rabbi, or lama to demand that a blasphemer be slain. But when Reuters reported what Mohammad Hanif, the imam of a Muslim seminary in Pakistan, said about the alleged Koran-flushers -- ''They should be hung. They should be killed in public so that no one can dare to insult Islam and its sacred symbols" -- was any reader surprised?

The Muslim riots should have been met by an international upwelling of outrage and condemnation. From every part of the civilized world should have come denunciations of those who would react to the supposed destruction of a book with brutal threats and the slaughter of 17 innocent people. But the chorus of condemnation was directed not at the killers and the fanatics who incited them, but at Newsweek.

From the White House down, the magazine was slammed -- for running an item it should have known might prove incendiary, for relying on a shaky source, for its animus toward the military and the war. Over and over, Newsweek was blamed for the riots' death toll. Conservative pundits in particular piled on. ''Newsweek lied, people died" was the headline on Michelle Malkin's popular website. At NationalReview.com, Paul Marshall of Freedom House fumed: ''What planet do these [Newsweek] people live on? . . . Anybody with a little knowledge could have told them it was likely that people would die as a result of the article." All of Marshall's choler was reserved for Newsweek; he had no criticism at all -- not a word -- for the marauders in the Muslim street.

Then there was Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who announced at a Senate hearing that she had a message for ''Muslims in America and throughout the world." And what was that message? That decent people do not resort to murder just because someone has offended their religious sensibilities? That the primitive bloodlust raging in Afghanistan and Pakistan was evidence of the Muslim world's dysfunctional political culture? That the Bush administration would redouble its efforts to defeat the Islamofascist radicals who use religion as an excuse to foment violence and terror?

No: Her message was that ''disrespect for the Holy Koran is not now, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be, tolerated by the United States. We honor the sacred books of all the world's great religions."

Granted, Rice spoke while the rioting was still taking place and her goal was to reduce the anti-American fever. But what ''Muslims in America and throughout the world" most need to hear is not pandering sweet-talk. What they need is a blunt reminder that the real desecration of Islam is not what some interrogator in Guantanamo might have done to the Koran. It is what totalitarian Muslim zealots have been doing to innocent human beings in the name of Islam. It is 9/11 and Beslan and Bali and Daniel Pearl and the USS Cole. It is trains in Madrid and schoolbuses in Israel and an ''insurgency" in Iraq that slaughters Muslims as they pray and vote and line up for work. It is Hamas and Al Qaeda and sermons filled with infidel-hatred and exhortations to ''martyrdom."

But what disgraces Islam above all is the vast majority of the planet's Muslims saying nothing and doing nothing about the jihadist cancer eating away at their religion. It is Free Muslims Against Terrorism, a pro-democracy organization, calling on Muslims and Middle Easterners to ''converge on our nation's capital for a rally against terrorism" this month -- and having only 50 people show up.

Yes, Islam is disrespected. That will only change when throngs of passionate Muslims show up for rallies against terrorism, and when rabble-rousers trying to gin up a riot over a defiled Koran can't get the time of day.

©2005 Boston Globe

LINK

Nice article, worth the read. The Muslims have the choice/chance to change things and don't/won't. Instead they complain about being racially profiled, mistreatment of a book, burn the american flag. etc., which isn't very helpful to their cause. This is one reason why I think we are wasting our time/money/lives setting up a democracy in Iraq. Even if we succeed, it will eventually be taken over by the religious fanatics.

Yes, racial profiling is degrading and time consuming, but until things have calmed down it's also nessecary IMO.
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
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Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer
The extremists don't represent Islam as a whole so why aren't the good folks/majority stepping up and saying so? -

Well, that's the problem, the extremists DO actually represent the views of the majority of Muslims. There are very few so-called progressive Muslims, and they are almost all living in Western nations.


I agree. I was floored when I realized what was said in the Bible. Add to that the literal interpretation, you have a recipe for death, oppression, and mayhem in less developed countries.



/fixed

 

azazyel

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2000
5,872
1
81
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer
The extremists don't represent Islam as a whole so why aren't the good folks/majority stepping up and saying so? -

Well, that's the problem, the extremists DO actually represent the views of the majority of Muslims. There are very few so-called progressive Muslims, and they are almost all living in Western nations.

No, they just don't make the mainstream news. Fear gets more ratings.


The regime may inflame Washington, but young Iranians say they admire, of all places, America

http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues05/mar05/iran.html

How American Muslims Really Responded to September 11

http://www.mediamonitors.net/riadabdelkarim3.html

CAIR-DC: To Muslims, Not Just A Book
Why people got so up in arms about the artilce

http://www.cair-net.org/

Bin Laden fatwa as Spain remembers
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/11/madrid.anniversary/


 

ValuedCustomer

Senior member
May 5, 2004
759
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Sorry, maybe I'm being naive but I just don't believe Ali Q. Public and his family are blood-thirsty murderers. I just wish they'd say something to help support my belief. - any former residents of the ME around here? is there a fear-factor contributing to this silence? if so, from who/what group?

 

irwincur

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2002
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I don't recall the other RIOTS that were mentioned. Protests, sure, but to call them RIOTS is a marvell of bias and stupidity. Just another member of the media handing out excuses for anything and everything any Muslim could have or ever has done.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
It is interesting to note the reactions over something as trivial to us as someone flushing a holy book down the toilet.

But I think this is where the Muslim world was left behind while the West progressed.
Our ingrained sense of seperation of Church and State has allowed us to view religion in our own light and not one run by a state and has been indoctrinated into us since Birth.

Many people in the West are religious yet if we see a bible burned or stomped we shurg it off as idiots on display. It is like the entire region is stuck in a time warp where beheadings for infidels and extreme punishment for crime are normal.

This reminds me of Europe a lot if we were talking the 1200s. The stories coming out of the ME are like reading a history book on fundamentalist christianity in Europe. The difference is this isnt 1206 but 2005 and one has to ask how did an entire region get so left behind??

Is it economic oppression?
Is it religious oppression?
Is it political oppression?

I dont know if you can nail either of them down as the cause but I am certain a combination of the top three are to blame.

Ther could also be a problem with the religion in general as there isnt a pope or leader. Each cleric seems to have a full run of the mill over whoever they can get to listen to them. In the bible they talk about dying for your religion. And if I had to I would, but there is no way Ill be taking some innocent with me and the idiot telling me to die for it better show me the way if you know what I mean!
 

ValuedCustomer

Senior member
May 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: irwincur
I don't recall the other RIOTS that were mentioned. Protests, sure, but to call them RIOTS is a marvell of bias and stupidity. Just another member of the media handing out excuses for anything and everything any Muslim could have or ever has done.
Almost as stupid as you not reading the article, relying on your myopic knee-jerk and then posting about it. - RTFA


 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: irwincur
I don't recall the other RIOTS that were mentioned. Protests, sure, but to call them RIOTS is a marvell of bias and stupidity. Just another member of the media handing out excuses for anything and everything any Muslim could have or ever has done.

Hehehe I got that far and was like wtf? I dont remember those things. But if you read a little further into the article it will tell you he was making a point that indeed none of that happened :)

 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
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Originally posted by: irwincur
I don't recall the other RIOTS that were mentioned. Protests, sure, but to call them RIOTS is a marvell of bias and stupidity. Just another member of the media handing out excuses for anything and everything any Muslim could have or ever has done.

Apparently you either stopped reading or missed probably one of the most significant lines in the article which read "Of course, there was a good reason all these bloody protests went unremembered in the coverage of the Newsweek affair: They never occurred. " Granted, just because something may or may not have occurred doesn't seem to stop Newsweek from printing it apparently.

I posted something in another thread last week which echoed the sentiments of the author of this article. Only difference is that I do put some blame on Newsweek for throwing a spark on a powder keg. Yes, the reactions were uncivilized to say the least but it almost seems like Newsweek intentionally provoked them. Why? I can only guess because controversy sells magazines.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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Good points, but I disagree with one: It is what totalitarian Muslim zealots have been doing to innocent human beings in the name of Islam.Actually, what a lot of these rioters doing is exactly what the Koran would call for. That's really the difference. Christianity at most opportunities, for instance, calls for peace and turning the other cheek. Jesus was peaceful to the core. Muhammad was not. The Koran is incredibly warlike and adversarial, and these riots are often in direct response to its teachings. It can be argued that these rioters and murderers often are more true to its teachings than those who are islamic and claim that it's a peaceful religion, because it is not.

Some of the other more mainstream religions have evolved past the barbarics frequently executed by those who claim to be islamists. If one's faith is high enough, it won't matter if a stranger derides their religion, because their link to God will not be affected.
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
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Originally posted by: Skoorb

Some of the other more mainstream religions have evolved past the barbarics frequently executed by those who claim to be islamists. If one's faith is high enough, it won't matter if a stranger derides their religion, because their link to God will not be affected.

What other "more mainstream" religions do you mean exactly? Not to say that other religions have not evolved past barbarics because I agree with that. But to say that islam is not a mainstream religion is what I call into question. The world has billions of them. And if they are as you describe them that is a scary thought.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
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Originally posted by: Genx87
This reminds me of Europe a lot if we were talking the 1200s. The stories coming out of the ME are like reading a history book on fundamentalist christianity in Europe. The difference is this isnt 1206 but 2005 and one has to ask how did an entire region get so left behind??

if you do some quick math islam is about 1200-1300 years old... maybe all religions go through the same growing pains?
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
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Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Genx87
This reminds me of Europe a lot if we were talking the 1200s. The stories coming out of the ME are like reading a history book on fundamentalist christianity in Europe. The difference is this isnt 1206 but 2005 and one has to ask how did an entire region get so left behind??

if you do some quick math islam is about 1200-1300 years old... maybe all religions go through the same growing pains?


Does this mean we should fear the Mormons in the future?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
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Originally posted by: StormRider

Does this mean we should fear the Mormons in the future?

depends on if they're christians or not, i suppose. or else we've got a whole lot to fear from protestants first.
 

brucekatz

Senior member
Nov 27, 2003
464
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Christianity at most opportunities, for instance, calls for peace and turning the other cheek. Jesus was peaceful to the core. Muhammad was not. The Koran is incredibly warlike and adversarial, and these riots are often in direct response to its teachings. It can be argued that these rioters and murderers often are more true to its teachings than those who are islamic and claim that it's a peaceful religion, because it is not.
Christinaity calls for peace, but were those just talks? Read the history, Christinaity was the one which went out its way to conquer; other religions mainly fighted among themselves, not invaded others. Let's face it, Christinaity looks down everyone else, and don't leave others alone - how many times I had heard, "My church is better than yours." It is all from the same book, why attituade?

 

ValuedCustomer

Senior member
May 5, 2004
759
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Originally posted by: brucekatz
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Christianity at most opportunities, for instance, calls for peace and turning the other cheek. Jesus was peaceful to the core. Muhammad was not. The Koran is incredibly warlike and adversarial, and these riots are often in direct response to its teachings. It can be argued that these rioters and murderers often are more true to its teachings than those who are islamic and claim that it's a peaceful religion, because it is not.
Christinaity was the one which went out its way to conquer; other religions mainly fighted among themselves, not invaded others.
Not true. Heard of the Moors? Assyrians? - what do think the sacking of Constantinople, Eastern and Central Europe was about?
Let's face it, Christinaity looks down everyone else, and don't leave others alone
You know nothing of "Christianity" save for the stereotypes you've created/got on board with.
how many times I had heard, "My church is better than yours." It is all from the same book, why attituade?
What are you talking about? "My church is better than yours."?? - question for anyone reading the thread: Has anyone ever heard anyone say this in anything but a joking/hyperbolous manner?

nice spelling, btw :Q



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