Why is ID an issue?

[killster1]

You'd need to take the high end of that range. Even assuming no deductions, you're looking at around $250k per year to get up to $50k in federal taxes, which would put him around 80 hour work weeks for 52 weeks of the year. If he gets 8-9 weeks of paid vacation, that increases those work weeks even further since he isn't getting overtime during his vacation time. Sounds like a typical bootstrap bullshitter to me.

i guess you also have a reading comprehension issue, never said i paid 50k but only that i hope to not have to pay more than that hopefully its around teh same as last year, 30% tax. Gotta love how no one can reply what they pay in taxes Also prob didnt factor in other sources of income than the one that pays me to laugh at people who spend their free time arguing with me

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Better question: what problem are voter ID laws trying to solve, and are they more likely to suppress voter turnout than solve problems (thus redefining their true purpose)?

This is a really great question. I think it helps to back up and see the big picture once in a while. What are we trying to solve, is it truly a problem, and can it solve the problem (or at least reduce occurrence of the problem)?

I don't think these laws would solve the problem and I also don't think it would suppress voter turnout. It doesn't sound like there's a ton of fraud (there's potential, but I don't think it has materialized). It also doesn't sound like there are very many people at all who don't have IDs. Otherwise they couldn't drive or buy alcohol or tobacco or do taxes or rent apartments or get jerbs or do any of the other things that kinda require ID.

Yet here we all are arguing our asses off about it for 11 pages Sometimes I think the powers that be want us arguing about stuff that doesn't matter.

 

[BoomerD]

I agree,,,,but lket me change what you said a little bit --I'd actually support requiring every American to have some kind of FREE national ID card..

^ Free or very, very cheap. Like $5, tops.

Either of those would be fine. Hell, I pay $54 for my driver's license for 6 years...

 

[cytg111]

ashamed to say what you paid? its ok at least your message was not garbled like the last.. hopefully this year i wont have to pay more than 50k for my 2020 taxes. they can use my taxes for free id's instead of nice roads or schools/teachers to increase the chance of success for the poor folk that cant afford? the ID's.

Lets piss then, you own your own business? How many languages you code? For the last 20 years, what's the longest you been without a contract? My last post wasnt obfuscated to the least, you just have a hard time keeping up. Add to that I pay my socialist taxes with delight. Its all good baby.
When someone like you or some1one1 puts out this kind of garbage you either not sincere or its evidence of severe cognitive deficits. Fact.
I hear Biden is gonna clear out the lead in your water pipes? Too late for you, but there might be hoper for "killster2" ... or three, wtf knows. Or cares.

 

[cytg111]

Either of those would be fine. Hell, I pay $54 for my driver's license for 6 years...

I dont know if this is an issue or not, but I could imagine it could be, so, here goes, you have a significant homeless problem on your hands right? What about those people who falls out the cracks of "The American Dream" and may in fact BE American but would have a hard time proving it? I dont know where the bar is set right, I do know that in Europe/Scandinavia, voting without an ID is unthinkable ... also, all ballots are send directly to your home address, so its just to get your things, go to the place with your ticket, id, get crossed off and ... vote. Its not an issue, but we DO have a different kind of infrastructure than you so ... *shrugs* (like you know, no voter suppression or that kind of shit)..

 

[mect]

i guess you also have a reading comprehension issue, never said i paid 50k but only that i hope to not have to pay more than that hopefully its around teh same as last year, 30% tax. Gotta love how no one can reply what they pay in taxes Also prob didnt factor in other sources of income than the one that pays me to laugh at people who spend their free time arguing with me

I will admit I don't read posts too carefully from people that make comparisons between voter fraud and rape.

 

[JEDIYoda]

if you followed the messages they chimed in about how i couldnt pay rent i have no idea how much anyone makes or pays in taxes but i know i pay my fair share.

NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mikeymikec]

This is a really great question. I think it helps to back up and see the big picture once in a while. What are we trying to solve, is it truly a problem, and can it solve the problem (or at least reduce occurrence of the problem)?

I don't think these laws would solve the problem and I also don't think it would suppress voter turnout. It doesn't sound like there's a ton of fraud (there's potential, but I don't think it has materialized). It also doesn't sound like there are very many people at all who don't have IDs. Otherwise they couldn't drive or buy alcohol or tobacco or do taxes or rent apartments or get jerbs or do any of the other things that kinda require ID.

Yet here we all are arguing our asses off about it for 11 pages Sometimes I think the powers that be want us arguing about stuff that doesn't matter.

I like how you advocate backing up and taking a look at the actual problem, then proceed by not doing that.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

I like how you advocate backing up and taking a look at the actual problem, then proceed by not doing that.

It doesn't seem like there is a problem to solve? That's kind of my point. What problem do you see that needs solving?

 

[mikeymikec]

It doesn't seem like there is a problem to solve? That's kind of my point. What problem do you see that needs solving?

If that was what you intended to convey then I agree, but you did start talking about 'the problem' as if you believed there was one.

 

[nOOky]

i guess you also have a reading comprehension issue, never said i paid 50k but only that i hope to not have to pay more than that hopefully its around teh same as last year, 30% tax. Gotta love how no one can reply what they pay in taxes Also prob didnt factor in other sources of income than the one that pays me to laugh at people who spend their free time arguing with me

No one will reply because generally when you ask people how much they make online they will lie. Even if they do tell the truth, then they'll be asked to prove it, which no sane person would do because the info would then be out there, and someone would claim they made it up anyway. And paying in a certain amount of taxes only can get you roughly to how much they actually make, not accounting for all of the deductions etc. that people have or depreciations etc.

 

[K1052]

It also doesn't sound like there are very many people at all who don't have IDs. Otherwise they couldn't drive or buy alcohol or tobacco or do taxes or rent apartments or get jerbs or do any of the other things that kinda require ID.

About 10% of Americans lack government issued photo id. You don't need photo ID to file taxes either. Also, some people don't drive especially if they are poor because they can't afford cars or don't need them in an urban environment and thus don't have driver's licenses.

Before making the kind of above assumptions people should really take a look and entertain the concept that not everybody's lives are the same as theirs.

 

[Pohemi]

No one will reply because...

Because generally speaking, the only people who are bragging about their income are: douchebags with no real sense of worth or value besides their bank account, and silver spoon 10 year olds with rich parents.

He strikes me as, "could be either/both".

 

[Pohemi]

It also doesn't sound like there are very many people at all who don't have IDs. Otherwise they couldn't drive or buy alcohol or tobacco or do taxes or rent apartments or get jerbs or do any of the other things that kinda require ID.

This is a large part of the issue to me, especially with those in denial that there is some issue with demanding state IDs.
You are looking at the notion of obtaining a valid state-issued ID through a subjective and relative lens.

You have a vehicle or transportation to get you to the DMV. You have the required funding for license and DMV "counter fees" etc. It seems so little to expect, that you can't imagine anyone NOT being able to do the same. This is your fatal flaw.

If ~10% of the US lacks state-ID, that'd equate to more than 30m people...a sizeable chunk if you ask me.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Again to me this isn’t about who has or who doesn’t have a current DL.
It is about who checks the ID to determine it is you & the ID is not a forgery? Who is the decision maker on Election Day, who is the final decider. What training have they had, what ability do they have to say with 100% certainty any particular ID is not the person holding it. What is the consequence to that person if they are wrong?


It is that simple guys. Point me to an ID system that is 100% secure and no discrepancies ever happen.

What realistically would happen with a national ID would be:
A shit ton of cost for a pointless ID
A shit ton of bureaucracy to update these IDs every few years because we all age
Pissed off people on #bothsides saying they were turned away
First Democrat who wins we will start hearing about an Antifa printing press churning out millions of fake voter IDs


Whole thing is pointless. Whole cycle will begin again at the first loss.

 

[Pohemi]

Again to me this isn’t about who has or who doesn’t have a current DL.
It is about who checks the ID to determine it is you & the ID is not a forgery? Who is the decision maker on Election Day, who is the final decider. What training have they had, what ability do they have to say with 100% certainty any particular ID is not the person holding it. What is the consequence to that person if they are wrong?

It is that simple guys. Point me to an ID system that is 100% secure and no discrepancies ever happen.

I don't disagree with your point here, but it all would be moot if IDs were not required AT the polls. /shrug

Edit: the typical 90 year old poll workers sure as fuck shouldn't be the ones expected to be scrutinizing IDs and confirming them valid...if it were to come to that. They can barely match names from lists most of the time.

 

[killster1]

No one will reply because generally when you ask people how much they make online they will lie. Even if they do tell the truth, then they'll be asked to prove it, which no sane person would do because the info would then be out there, and someone would claim they made it up anyway. And paying in a certain amount of taxes only can get you roughly to how much they actually make, not accounting for all of the deductions etc. that people have or depreciations etc.

i dont care how much they make i just wanted to know how much they are contributing to the free id's we are going to be giving away thanks for the nice reply with out cursing and insults.

 

[Pohemi]

thanks for the nice reply with out cursing and insults.

Fuck off, c*nt. << perfectly valid response to any and all of your commentary in this thread

 

[killster1]

Because generally speaking, the only people who are bragging about their income are: douchebags with no real sense of worth or value besides their bank account, and silver spoon 10 year olds with rich parents.

He strikes me as, "could be either/both".

Fuck off, c*nt. << perfectly valid response to any and all of your commentary in this thread

yup very level headed reply, congrats!

i was actually living out the back of a truck at one time in my life, im so far from being rich or having a huge bank account but i am proud about paying taxes to help out with this freemerica we will be starting to bad you are ashamed of what you have contributed. its ok tho i didnt expect you to share anything but insults and high fiving your fellow hot heads.

 

[skyking]

"free id's we are going to be giving away "
So that's your hangup, paying for IDs? You'd rather impact those who don't otherwise use them, at the bottom of our society. People living out of trucks so to speak. They don't deserve to vote eh?
Sounds a little possibly Jim Crow-ish.

 

[Jhhnn]

Trolls often try to change the subject to make it about them, the current state of this thread. It's done in a deliberately offensive way, of course. If it wasn't offensive, it wouldn't serve the purpose.

Voter ID is a solution in search of a problem, one that actually denies reality. It's basic conspiracy theory. The whole ID thing is settled when people register to vote in the first place. A signature match is all that's really required thereafter. It's the basis for the highly secure vote by mail systems used in five states, including my own & neighboring Utah. I could go on to explain how it works, but the people who need to understand are predisposed not to, because their position is based on tribalism rather than reason. I mean, they voted for Trump, didn't they?

 

[killster1]

"free id's we are going to be giving away "
So that's your hangup, paying for IDs? You'd rather impact those who don't otherwise use them, at the bottom of our society. People living out of trucks so to speak. They don't deserve to vote eh?
Sounds a little possibly Jim Crows-ish.

who said i have a hang up paying for this fictional id? i dont care about voting, i dont care about bottom of society not having id. they should focus on work / school and getting out of the hole they are in. I have had a job since 12 years old, but i made a choice to live from the back of a truck instead of paying for rent so i could get ahead save for school and educate myself. Never asked anyone for anything free in life, kinda seems like enabling if you dont force people to take care of themselves.

 

[eelw]

Because generally speaking, the only people who are bragging about their income are: douchebags with no real sense of worth or value besides their bank account, and silver spoon 10 year olds with rich parents.

He strikes me as, "could be either/both".

Or those rednecks in pickups with those brass ball sack hanging off the toe hook. Like overcompensating much?

 

[Fenixgoon]

who said i have a hang up paying for this fictional id? i dont care about voting, i dont care about bottom of society not having id. they should focus on work / school and getting out of the hole they are in. I have had a job since 12 years old, but i made a choice to live from the back of a truck instead of paying for rent so i could get ahead save for school and educate myself. Never asked anyone for anything free in life, kinda seems like enabling if you dont force people to take care of themselves.

Ahh yes, bootstraps...

 

[Jhhnn]

i dont care about voting, i dont care about bottom of society not having id.

Then why are you here?