Why is healthcare a "right" now?

[Craig234]

Sure, if you want guys to show up at your house with guns.


And to the OP, no, healthcare isn't a right, and never will be.

Wrong.

It's a right as soon as we, the people, make it one through our government.

Just as it's a right in every other advanced country already.

And that's what we should do.

 

[matt0611]

Wrong.

It's a right as soon as we, the people, make it one through our government.

Just as it's a right in every other advanced country already.

And that's what we should do.

Healthcare can never be a "human right" or a "natural right" in the way that free speech, right to self defense, practicing your own religion, right to life, person, property, privacy, etc are rights.

Healthcare is a commodity / service that has to be produced for a person to obtain it. Hence it is not, has never been, and will never be a "right".

Now, you may say you want to have the government try to provide healthcare for all citizens by taxing others to pay for it. But this is not a right.
I don't have any problems with it if its done at the state level where it belongs though. (like what the state of VT is doing).
Though I think theres much better ways to go about it and better alternatives for it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by matt0611
Sure, if you want guys to show up at your house with guns.


And to the OP, no, healthcare isn't a right, and never will be.

Wrong.

It's a right as soon as we, the people, make it one through our government.

Just as it's a right in every other advanced country already.

And that's what we should do.

Let him think that way until the guns show up at his house.

Either America will be "Advanced" and fix itself or it will go by the wayside like Rome.

If it goes the route if Rome it will be because of people like him.

 

[Craig234]

Healthcare can never be a "human right" or a "natural right" in the way that free speech, right to self defense, practicing your own religion, right to life, person, property, privacy, etc are rights.

Healthcare is a commodity / service that has to be produced for a person to obtain it. Hence it is not, has never been, and will never be a "right".

Now, you may say you want to have the government try to provide healthcare for all citizens by taxing others to pay for it. But this is not a right.
I don't have any problems with it if its done at the state level where it belongs though. (like what the state of VT is doing).
Though I think theres much better ways to go about it and better alternatives for it.

This has been answered.

It's not a constitutional right (unless we make it one). It's not a 'civil right' the way 'free speech' is, however meaningless that is made with modern expensive press.

It is a 'right' in the sense that we say 'this is a basic need for all Americans, and if we can practically guarantee it to all Americans, it's important that we do.'

The government uses its powers to try to offer clean water, clean air, police protection, electricity to be available, affordably, to most or all Americans as practical.

It uses tools - funding research, regulating industry, providing incentives if needed, and more, to help do that.

And we are at the point of what we can afford - despite the financical situation - we can say universal healthcare should be a right to all Americans.

As for your ideology who should do it, I'm not too interested. There are many advantages to the federal government doing it, and I lean that direction.

Your unlisted 'better ways', you have had a long time to do them. Funny no other country has done them, I presume? If they're not going to happen, not too useful.

I think we can choose, Medicare for all, Medicare, or destroyed Medicare.

 

[zinfamous]

some people argue that balls of cells have a right to life.

they likewise argue that born humans have zero right to health (uh, also life)

interesting, huh?

 

[matt0611]

This has been answered.



As for your ideology who should do it, I'm not too interested. There are many advantages to the federal government doing it, and I lean that direction.

Your unlisted 'better ways', you have had a long time to do them. Funny no other country has done them, I presume? If they're not going to happen, not too useful.

I think we can choose, Medicare for all, Medicare, or destroyed Medicare.

"Answer" it all you want, it still won't make it a right.
Like I said, healthcare is not a right, and no amount of crying about it will make it one. ***EVER***
Saying healthcare is a right is nothing but progressive feel good nonsense / doublespeak.

Theres hardly anyone in congress that shares my views on healthcare, so no, I haven't had my chance.

Government's role in healthcare has only increased throughout this century by the way. And I didn't list my ideas for fixing healthcare in this thread because its off topic and I've done it many times. Besides, you'll just balk at it and respond with a ridiculous wall of text about it anyway.

The reason that healthcare is expensive is not because we don't all have it or that there is profit.

Over the past century your precious government has gotten more and more involved with healthcare, and look at where we are.

Now, like a typical progressive your only retort is that there just isn't enough, if somehow government runs the entire system it will be fixed. But we all know this is bullshit and its just an excuse for yet another power grab by your heroes in Washington.

I'd love for us to adopt federal universal healthcare just to see how much of a colossal failure it would be. But once we have it we know it will never, *ever* go away. Thank god democrats are so stupid and missed their chance.

 

[dmcowen674]

Over the past century your precious government has gotten more and more involved with healthcare, and look at where we are.

Now, like a typical progressive your only retort is that there just isn't enough, if somehow government runs the entire system it will be fixed. But we all know this is bullshit and its just an excuse for yet another power grab by your heroes in Washington.

I'd love for us to adopt federal universal healthcare just to see how much of a colossal failure it would be. But once we have it we know it will never, *ever* go away.

Thank god democrats are so stupid and missed their chance.

You got one thing right in your anti-American postings.

It is "Our" Government, not "yours".

You don't like it you are free to leave, be thankful for that and please do so ASAP.

Thank you

 

[matt0611]

You got one thing right in your anti-American postings.

It is "Our" Government, not "yours".

You don't like it you are free to leave, be thankful for that and please do so ASAP.

Thank you

When's your exodus to Somalia?
How are the plans coming?
I hope its soon.

 

[Tom]

Anyone who argues healthcare isn't a right doesn't have a good grasp on reality. Not becasue healthcare is a "right", but because to argue from that point of view means the person thinks the world revolves the individual, otherwise there's no reason to think that way.

And that just isn't reality for any species on planet Earth, and humans are particularly social in nature. We are much too weak to survive like sharks or tigers, and even those species aren't entirely individual.

Healthcare is a huge endeavor, in lots of ways healthcare vastly increases productivity and therefore is a huge economic plus, not the drain people think it is.

And taking care of the sick, the poor, the elderly, are noble goals which make a society great, which makes being part of that society attractive to the most capable people, which makes the society greater.

But small minded people who only care about their own possessions and comfort act as a drain on society and that's why keeping a society moving forward takes a lot of effort. They are the drag, not the sick or poor.

 

[ultimatebob]

Why is healthcare a "right"? Because we live in a modern civilized country, that's why.

There is no good reason why people should be dying of easily treatable diseases simply because they can't afford to pay the bill for their medication.

Most developed countries have already figured this out... I have no idea why the US is too damn stubborn to evolve in this regard.

 

[xj0hnx]

some people argue that balls of cells have a right to life.

they likewise argue that born humans have zero right to health (uh, also life)

interesting, huh?

Why do you people constantly try to confuse health care with health care insurance?

We already have the right to health care, no one is going to stop you from going to the hospital, or doctor, or ER, or free clinic to get health care. We have the right to use the services of a health care professional.

 

[Nebor]

Anyone who argues healthcare isn't a right doesn't have a good grasp on reality. Not becasue healthcare is a "right", but because to argue from that point of view means the person thinks the world revolves the individual, otherwise there's no reason to think that way.

And that just isn't reality for any species on planet Earth, and humans are particularly social in nature. We are much too weak to survive like sharks or tigers, and even those species aren't entirely individual.

Healthcare is a huge endeavor, in lots of ways healthcare vastly increases productivity and therefore is a huge economic plus, not the drain people think it is.

And taking care of the sick, the poor, the elderly, are noble goals which make a society great, which makes being part of that society attractive to the most capable people, which makes the society greater.

But small minded people who only care about their own possessions and comfort act as a drain on society and that's why keeping a society moving forward takes a lot of effort. They are the drag, not the sick or poor.

Your argument applies to the production of food, automobiles, computers... pretty much every other product in our modern lives, but I don't see you arguing that those things are rights, and should be paid for by society for those who can't afford them. Tell you what, what do you do\produce for a living? Let's make that a right. I promise the government will pay you a fair price for it before they give it away to people who don't care enough for it to budget for it. Bonus points if you're in a high income bracket, because then you'll know that 30%+ of your income goes to the government to pay you less than market prices for YOUR work.

 

[soundforbjt]

Why is healthcare a "right"? Because we live in a modern civilized country, that's why.

There is no good reason why people should be dying of easily treatable diseases simply because they can't afford to pay the bill for their medication.

Most developed countries have already figured this out... I have no idea why the US is too damn stubborn to evolve in this regard.

Simple, It's because it's a huge profit making business. People profit on the misfortune of others, it's the American way.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

EDIT: Dammit.

 

[xj0hnx]

Simple, It's because it's a huge profit making business. People profit on the misfortune of others, it's the American way.

Such a sad, distorted view, truely pathetic. So someone that provides a service helping you get healthy is "profiting from your misfortune"?

 

[Nebor]

Such a sad, distorted view, truely pathetic. So someone that provides a service helping you get healthy is "profiting from your misfortune"?

Seriously. Does this guy to the doctor with a grimace on his face and just call him a son of a bitch to his face? What kind of view is that? Do you feel the same way about accountants that help you with an IRS audit? What about a foundation repairman? A carpet cleaning service? A veterinarian? Those bastards are ALL profiting from your misfortune!

The other day, I ran out of milk and had to go buy some at the store. Those bastards had me RIGHT where they wanted me, profiting off my unfortunate situation: running out of milk.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Its not.

A right doesn't require an action on the part of another.

This.


No one is entitled to another's skill/time/etc.

 

[zinfamous]

Why do you people constantly try to confuse health care with health care insurance?

We already have the right to health care, no one is going to stop you from going to the hospital, or doctor, or ER, or free clinic to get health care. We have the right to use the services of a health care professional.

...except when you can't.

 

[Nebor]

...except when you can't.

When would that be?

 

[dmcowen674]

Why is healthcare a "right"? Because we live in a modern civilized country, that's why.

There is no good reason why people should be dying of easily treatable diseases simply because they can't afford to pay the bill for their medication.

Most developed countries have already figured this out... I have no idea why the US is too damn stubborn to evolve in this regard.

It's very simple to the Anti-American rich Republicans:

They value extreme profits over life

 

[Tom]

Your argument applies to the production of food, automobiles, computers... pretty much every other product in our modern lives, but I don't see you arguing that those things are rights, and should be paid for by society for those who can't afford them. Tell you what, what do you do\produce for a living? Let's make that a right. I promise the government will pay you a fair price for it before they give it away to people who don't care enough for it to budget for it. Bonus points if you're in a high income bracket, because then you'll know that 30%+ of your income goes to the government to pay you less than market prices for YOUR work.

I didnt say healthcare is a right, but we can choose to make it one, and my point is it's worth it to do a better job of providing it to everyone than we do. Because healthy children and people are more productive, and taking care of the sick and poor makes for a more moral society, which has proven through history to lead to other successes in societies.

And we can afford healthcare for everyone, there might be a limit to how wealthy we can make healthcare corporations though.

We are paying about double for worse healthcare than most or all other first world countries.

 

[Ronstang]

When would that be?

You have to remember that for a large portion of the people that vote for Democrats the problem arises when it comes time to pay for the things they want or need. They feel the rest of us should not only provide for ourselves but for them also.

 

[Jimmah]

LOL Americans

 

[Ape]

some people argue that balls of cells have a right to life.

they likewise argue that born humans have zero right to health (uh, also life)

interesting, huh?

Care to explain how those are similar in the least? Since the abortion/non abortion about when life starts and when it's ok to kill it vs paying for someone's healthcare for life.

 

[Tom]

You have to remember that for a large portion of the people that vote for Democrats the problem arises when it comes time to pay for the things they want or need. They feel the rest of us should not only provide for ourselves but for them also.

do you think we should pay for the Iraq war and the other wars ? Should Bush's famous tax cuts have been paid for with spending cuts ?

If the Democrats are the tax and spend party, the Republicans are the borrow and spend party.

Given the choice, I prefer pay as we go. The borrowing, which is mostly caused by tax payers who want big government without paying for it, so they vote for whoever offers tax cuts, cannot work.

There are very few people who really want smaller government, they just want to cut spending that they can't see how it benefits them personally.