Why is HD3870 slower?

[bharatwaja]

HD3870 having 2.25Ghz GDDR4, 775+ Mhz core clock, higher shader clock...

almost all specs are better than 8800GT

still 8800GT beats HD3870 in benches... why?

Seems illogical...

Also, would there be any noticeable difference while playing the latest games on HD3870 as opposed to 8800GT?

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: bharatwaja
HD3870 having 2.25Ghz GDDR4, 775+ Mhz core clock, higher shader clock...

almost all specs are better than 8800GT

still 8800GT beats HD3870 in benches... why?

Seems illogical...

Also, would there be any noticeable difference while playing the latest games on HD3870 as opposed to 8800GT?

Simple, the 8800gt uses all 120 shaders without a problem with seperate AA hardware. The 3870 is better in the long run but it is heavily dependent upon drivers and or game developers.

The 8800 series is a horse that can be used at whim. The 3870 is just hard to program for atm. I am sure this will change in a few years, that is why I think the 3870 will perform better in 2008/2009 then the 8800 series but by then we will all have purchased new hardware

 

[vanvock]

do a search in this forum, it's been posted about recently. seems it has to do with how the sp's etc are utilized

 

[bharatwaja]

Should I buy HD3870 or 8800GT?

If HD3870.... which manufacturer?

 

[Syntax Error]

8800GT if you can get it shipped relatively quickly and around its MSRP which is around $250-ish, it's faster than a 3870.

3870 if you want better stock cooling from your card, cheaper price (don't know by how much now, I hear that card's been a bit price gouged as well) and if you gamer lower than UXGA (1600 x 1200) resolution.

 

[JBT]

the 3870 does NOT have a faster shaders....

 

[bharatwaja]

I want to go for an X38 board... but doesnt support SLI... 780i Sli jus sucks, with no DDR3...

So I was thinking, right now, 3870 and then in 6 months... 3870X2 (or 3890 or whatver they call) and make it a crossfire with actually 3 3870's working together.... would do good on high resolutions too i think... any suggestions?

 

[Syntax Error]

You're better off getting a multi-card solution NOW, if you plan to upgrade and get a second card in half a year and a third a half a year after that, by the time you get your multi-GPU setup complete, there's going to be something out that'll beat it in a single-card solution (if current history holds true, sorta like how an 8800GT is equivalent to an X1900XTX Crossfire setup), mind as well go for the simpler solution and get a single-GPU setup which would be more compatible than multi-GPU (if drivers don't shape up for these solutions).

SLI and Crossfire, IMHO, is good only for those who can afford the extra price premium for extra performance from multiple GPUs AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE.

 

[bfdd]

It's architecture, why is a 2.0ghz C2D faster than a 2.4ghz X2? Architecture. Btw my buddy just picked up a 3850 it plays his games great BF2142, C&C3, WoW whatever it does it well. Picked it up for 150 tried to get him to get a 3870 but he wanted to get something cheap so he'll be going xfire later. Good cards I'd recommend the 3870 if you can get it cheap, seen it as low as 210. Good cards I like the fact that the 8800 GT and the 38x0 series have built on hd decoding also.

 

[bharatwaja]

Today has been the worst of ever for me... Jus found out today that Q9450 has been delayed
Was planning a system build in Feb 2008... Looks like i have go with C2Q Q6600 till Q9450 comes out...
now in a gr8 confusion about 8800GT or HD3870, coz with the latter i can go for crossfire on X38 but SLI is never possible on X38.. besides that only X38 supports ddr3 apart from p35, but neither have SLI support.

 

[aussiestilgar]

Originally posted by: Syntax Error
You're better off getting a multi-card solution NOW, if you plan to upgrade and get a second card in half a year and a third a half a year after that, by the time you get your multi-GPU setup complete, there's going to be something out that'll beat it in a single-card solution (if current history holds true, sorta like how an 8800GT is equivalent to an X1900XTX Crossfire setup), mind as well go for the simpler solution and get a single-GPU setup which would be more compatible than multi-GPU (if drivers don't shape up for these solutions).

SLI and Crossfire, IMHO, is good only for those who can afford the extra price premium for extra performance from multiple GPUs AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE.

Good point. Though 6 months later it may be wiser to upgrade with a 2nd GPU in SLI or Xfire, than spending double for a single card that performs just as well. There is not too much difference.

 

[Dacalo]

Originally posted by: bharatwaja
Today has been the worst of ever for me... Jus found out today that Q9450 has been delayed
Was planning a system build in Feb 2008... Looks like i have go with C2Q Q6600 till Q9450 comes out...
now in a gr8 confusion about 8800GT or HD3870, coz with the latter i can go for crossfire on X38 but SLI is never possible on X38.. besides that only X38 supports ddr3 apart from p35, but neither have SLI support.

I was in similar situation as you a few weeks ago. And you know what X38 and DDR3 isn't worth it, especially DDR3. It's just too expensive and the performance gain can't justify the price, yet.

So I settled for Abit IP35 Pro, based on P35 which is a great board. Got a Q6600 to go with it, and grabbed an 8800GT. Picked up Crucial Ballistix 4GB for under $90. It runs everything I throw at really well.

 

[bharatwaja]

Right now DDR3 is not worth it... but in an year... with ddr3 1600 becoming the mainstay... i guess the prices would be fair and an upgrade can maintain my PC in front of most others.... Am thinkin of future proofing mainly...

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: bharatwaja
I want to go for an X38 board... but doesnt support SLI... 780i Sli jus sucks, with no DDR3...

So I was thinking, right now, 3870 and then in 6 months... 3870X2 (or 3890 or whatver they call) and make it a crossfire with actually 3 3870's working together.... would do good on high resolutions too i think... any suggestions?

That was my thinking as well. Fingers are crossed it will work out that way.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: bharatwaja
Today has been the worst of ever for me... Jus found out today that Q9450 has been delayed
Was planning a system build in Feb 2008... Looks like i have go with C2Q Q6600 till Q9450 comes out...
now in a gr8 confusion about 8800GT or HD3870, coz with the latter i can go for crossfire on X38 but SLI is never possible on X38.. besides that only X38 supports ddr3 apart from p35, but neither have SLI support.

Quads are useless unless you're using esoteric 3-D modeling or video encoding apps and using them all the time. The OSs don't support them very well. Vista offers some eye candy but mainstream apps and games don't benefit from more than two cores. I'd recommend getting an E8400 or E8500 instead. That's what I'm doing.

The hardware is so far ahead of the software right now that it's a joke.

 

[bharatwaja]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky

Quads are useless unless you're using esoteric 3-D modeling or video encoding apps and using them all the time. The OSs don't support them very well. Vista offers some eye candy but mainstream apps and games don't benefit from more than two cores. I'd recommend getting an E8400 or E8500 instead. That's what I'm doing.

The hardware is so far ahead of the software right now that it's a joke.

Right now its a joke... but what i am thinking of is the future, i dont like frequent processor/motherboard upgrapdes... Hence i jus wanna go in for the best processor and upgrade the Graphic card as i require it...

 

[darkxknight]

can you really TRI Xfire with 3870x2 and 1 3870? that'd be awesome

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky

Originally posted by: bharatwaja
Today has been the worst of ever for me... Jus found out today that Q9450 has been delayed
Was planning a system build in Feb 2008... Looks like i have go with C2Q Q6600 till Q9450 comes out...
now in a gr8 confusion about 8800GT or HD3870, coz with the latter i can go for crossfire on X38 but SLI is never possible on X38.. besides that only X38 supports ddr3 apart from p35, but neither have SLI support.

Quads are useless unless you're using esoteric 3-D modeling or video encoding apps and using them all the time. The OSs don't support them very well. Vista offers some eye candy but mainstream apps and games don't benefit from more than two cores. I'd recommend getting an E8400 or E8500 instead. That's what I'm doing.

The hardware is so far ahead of the software right now that it's a joke.

Unfortunatly people said the EXACT same thing to me 2 years ago when I built my opteron 165 setup. They all said get a faster single core because it was useless. Well, if you are doing a ~2 year build then I say it is worth it and it was for me. Games have been out for quite a while that used both cores and I believe I benefited from the investement.

If you upgrade every year then you might be right, quad could be a waste compared to a faster dual core. DDR 3 on the other hand might indeed be a waste right now though I'm not sure even there. Apart from price it still seems like there is not a huge difference in actual performance between DDR and DDR2, and this is years after it was introduced. Right now you can get DDR2 for $35 a 2GB stick so it seems very hard to swallow the relativly huge price they are asking for DDR3.

And to the topic at hand it was my impression that architecture was the true reason for the performance difference. Like others have said look at CPU's, you can get a P4 up to 3ghz but my old overclocked Althlon XP running at only 2.2ghz would still beat it, let alone a newer core2 solo running at an even slower frequency.

 

[BernardP]

Dual-core, quad-core and soon octo-core?

More than two cores is mostly useless, but don't despair:

Microsoft is working on finding something to do for those extra cores

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky

Originally posted by: bharatwaja
Today has been the worst of ever for me... Jus found out today that Q9450 has been delayed
Was planning a system build in Feb 2008... Looks like i have go with C2Q Q6600 till Q9450 comes out...
now in a gr8 confusion about 8800GT or HD3870, coz with the latter i can go for crossfire on X38 but SLI is never possible on X38.. besides that only X38 supports ddr3 apart from p35, but neither have SLI support.

Quads are useless unless you're using esoteric 3-D modeling or video encoding apps and using them all the time. The OSs don't support them very well. Vista offers some eye candy but mainstream apps and games don't benefit from more than two cores. I'd recommend getting an E8400 or E8500 instead. That's what I'm doing.

The hardware is so far ahead of the software right now that it's a joke.

ignore this post we all know that Crysis and other games will and do use 4 cores.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky

Originally posted by: bharatwaja
Today has been the worst of ever for me... Jus found out today that Q9450 has been delayed
Was planning a system build in Feb 2008... Looks like i have go with C2Q Q6600 till Q9450 comes out...
now in a gr8 confusion about 8800GT or HD3870, coz with the latter i can go for crossfire on X38 but SLI is never possible on X38.. besides that only X38 supports ddr3 apart from p35, but neither have SLI support.

Quads are useless unless you're using esoteric 3-D modeling or video encoding apps and using them all the time. The OSs don't support them very well. Vista offers some eye candy but mainstream apps and games don't benefit from more than two cores. I'd recommend getting an E8400 or E8500 instead. That's what I'm doing.

The hardware is so far ahead of the software right now that it's a joke.

ignore this post we all know that Crysis and other games will and do use 4 cores.

Crysis uses two cores, this is a fact. If you have four cores all it means is that the windows apps are using the other two.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky

Originally posted by: bharatwaja
Today has been the worst of ever for me... Jus found out today that Q9450 has been delayed
Was planning a system build in Feb 2008... Looks like i have go with C2Q Q6600 till Q9450 comes out...
now in a gr8 confusion about 8800GT or HD3870, coz with the latter i can go for crossfire on X38 but SLI is never possible on X38.. besides that only X38 supports ddr3 apart from p35, but neither have SLI support.

Quads are useless unless you're using esoteric 3-D modeling or video encoding apps and using them all the time. The OSs don't support them very well. Vista offers some eye candy but mainstream apps and games don't benefit from more than two cores. I'd recommend getting an E8400 or E8500 instead. That's what I'm doing.

The hardware is so far ahead of the software right now that it's a joke.

ignore this post we all know that Crysis and other games will and do use 4 cores.

Crysis uses two cores, this is a fact. If you have four cores all it means is that the windows apps are using the other two.

Quads are not useless anyway which was the original point. Anyhow even if crysis doesn't use 4 cores like originally intended what says no other game will. Alan Wake anyone? Although I'm not interested in that game one bit, it looks like it will make use of those resources you say are useless. Lots of things I do now would use 4 cores, but I am waiting for reasonably priced 45nm CPUs.

 

[bharatwaja]

Originally posted by: darkxknight
can you really TRI Xfire with 3870x2 and 1 3870? that'd be awesome

Ya, read somewhere about a rig already testing with that config....

also, quad fire with 2 3870X2's.... jus need 2 PCIE slots at x16....

Thats why i am considering the HD3870 apart from the fact that X38 does not support SLI

 

[bharatwaja]

Originally posted by: Spike
If you upgrade every year then you might be right, quad could be a waste compared to a faster dual core. DDR 3 on the other hand might indeed be a waste right now though I'm not sure even there. Apart from price it still seems like there is not a huge difference in actual performance between DDR and DDR2, and this is years after it was introduced. Right now you can get DDR2 for $35 a 2GB stick so it seems very hard to swallow the relativly huge price they are asking for DDR3.

I have found Corsair (1GB*2 kit) DDR3-1333 Mhz with 6-5-5-18 timings for about $120 with my regular vendor... I am india... actual prices are a little cheaper here if u had a good vendor... My regular vendor and i have been doing business for more than 10 years, as a regular, he offers me good prices and quality goods....

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: JBT
the 3870 does NOT have a faster shaders....

Yeah, ATI's shaders are something like 2x slower. Also Nvidia has more texture units.