Why is good mem needed for Oc's

[Oblivion121]

Im very new to overclocking and I dont get why you need like ddr2 667 or better ram to have a good overclock, what is it that makes the overclock need the speed of the ram. Like I have a c2d 1.86ghz and ddr2 533 ram, whats the best overclock could i get out of that?

 

[myocardia]

Because the speed of your RAM has to match the speed of your FSB, and the speed of the FSB times the cpu multiplier= the cpu speed.

 

[Oblivion121]

So basically ddr2 533 isnt gonna have any good points to it about overclocking.....great...now i wont be able to overclock it at all....and i am in no situation to afford new ram at all....what am i going to do?

 

[Oblivion121]

Is there any way i can overclock that c2d without having to overclock my mem ...maybe to like ddr2 600 or somethin at most. Id like to squeeze 2.1ghz out of that processor cause it is all i could afford, or can i overclock my cpu without overclocking the FSB?

do you think the Abit IL9-Pro Motherboard with a c2d E6300 and 4(512mb) sticks of corsair ddr2 533 ram could overclock a c2d to atleast 2.1ghz?

 

[myocardia]

I know nothing about that motherboard, but I do know that some motherboards puke when trying to overclock with 4 sticks of RAM. With four sticks of PC4200, you likely won't get very far at all. And there's one motherboard that will let you overclock the processor, without raising the RAM's speed, but it costs ~$275.

 

[MonkeyFaces]

I heard that cpus used to overclock without the need to raise the FSB. However, retailers were marketing CPUs as higher models and CPU makers got greedy and needed an extra incentive for buyers to get a higher binned chip. The overclocking mechanics seem artificial to me, especially when decent overclocking motherboards cost twice as much as a full feature normal board. P5n 570 SLI boards with full connectivity features versus the 6xx enthusiast model boards come to mind.

Anyway, to offer my perspective on your exact problem, I was able to get my p5n board with 533mhz memory to overclock my e6300 to an e6400. I felt better saving $30 on a cpu while saving money on a decent SLI capable mobo. Often times, your motherboard is the most limiting factor when compared to your RAM. My pathetic overclocks were the most anyone else could pull when I googled. My motherboards are my Asus p5n and gigabyte nforce 4 basic SLI.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: MonkeyFaces
I heard that cpus used to overclock without the need to raise the FSB. However, retailers were marketing CPUs as higher models and CPU makers got greedy and needed an extra incentive for buyers to get a higher binned chip.

All cpu's used to have unlocked multipliers, so overclocking a little was easy. That ended with the PII 400 or 450, and AMD's K6-III. You can still buy unlocked processors, though, if you don't mind paying for them: AMD and Intel.

 

[ineedaname]

I can tell you right now it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to overclock your cpu if you have an E6300 processor because the FSB CPU and RAM speeds are LOCKED to each other. ALL your speeds are dependant on the FSB.

An E6300 has a native fsb of 1066 which is actually 266. It is quad pumped so u divide by 4 which is where 266 comes from. Then your cpu and ram speeds are calculated off the 266. Your ram is Double Data Rate so it is 533. That cpu has a 7x multiplier so 7x266=1.86ghz.

When you overclock the computer you are raising the FSB so therefore your CPU AND RAM will be overclocked. For C2D you can only use multipliers to make your ram go faster but there are no dividers to make your ram go slower than the FSB.

Therefore unless your ram is rated faster than the FSB then you can overclock your cpu without overclocking the ram. So you can overclock your cpu without overclocking your ram as long as your ram can do over 533mhz.

Honestly though you might as well overclock your ram its not hard and your failure rate is extremely low as long as you do not put high voltages in it.

A good voltage for 24 hours all year long use would be below 2.4v.

If you want cheap ram that can overclock like crazy just get some Kingston PC5300 value ram 1gb sticks which are about $75. They're dirt cheap and they've been shown to overclock to 900mhz easily. Its a very good practice ram for beginners.

And even if you do not overclock the ram ddr2 666 can already get you to 3ghz with an E4300 or E6600. 333*9 = 3ghz This is because they have a 9x multiplier.

For a E6300 it'll only get you 2.3ghz 333*7 = 2.3ghz

Fortunately for you almost ALL ram can go at least 100mhz over their rated speeds. I wouldn't be surprised if your ram can hit 666mhz with about 2.2v.

 

[Oblivion121]

Ok now that made alot of sense, so if i buy like some ddr2 667 ram how well can i overclock them?, say an Wintec AMPX ddr2 667 2 gig (2x1gig) sticks?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Before you go buying new ram I would atleast try overclocking your DDR533 and see how far you can get. Some DDR533 ram overclocks quite well! Loosen the timings as to 5-6-6-18 and up the ddr volts and see how far you can get.

 

[Oblivion121]

thats just the thing, i have no clue on overclocking, i did one overclock, i had an Aopen i945p board that let me hit 3.3ghz with my pentium d 820, thats the only thing i did, no ram, no extra voltage or anything, plus i just found out that the board i ordered only supports 667, so i cant use my 533.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Thats odd, I have yet to see a board that doesn't support ddr533

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Oblivion121
thats just the thing, i have no clue on overclocking, i did one overclock, i had an Aopen i945p board that let me hit 3.3ghz with my pentium d 820, thats the only thing i did, no ram, no extra voltage or anything, plus i just found out that the board i ordered only supports 667, so i cant use my 533.

That's not how that works, man. Every DDR2 motherboard ever made will work with PC4200 RAM. Abit just says that the fastest RAM you should try to use with that motherboard is PC5400 (DDR 667). It won't do you any good buying RAM that's faster than PC4200, though. Your motherboard won't overclock at all. It doesn't even have the ability in the BIOS to change the FSB speed. That means that you're stuck with whatever speed processor you buy, period. You'd be much, much better off spending your money on an overclocking motherboard, rather than wasting it on buying RAM that's faster.

 

[Kromis]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Oblivion121
thats just the thing, i have no clue on overclocking, i did one overclock, i had an Aopen i945p board that let me hit 3.3ghz with my pentium d 820, thats the only thing i did, no ram, no extra voltage or anything, plus i just found out that the board i ordered only supports 667, so i cant use my 533.

That's not how that works, man. Every DDR2 motherboard ever made will work with PC4200 RAM. Abit just says that the fastest RAM you should try to use with that motherboard is PC5400 (DDR 667). It won't do you any good buying RAM that's faster than PC4200, though. Your motherboard won't overclock at all. It doesn't even have the ability in the BIOS to change the FSB speed. That means that you're stuck with whatever speed processor you buy, period. You'd be much, much better off spending your money on an overclocking motherboard, rather than wasting it on buying RAM that's faster.

Ownage post!

/thread

 

[ineedaname]

Originally posted by: myocardia
That's not how that works, man. Every DDR2 motherboard ever made will work with PC4200 RAM. Abit just says that the fastest RAM you should try to use with that motherboard is PC5400 (DDR 667). It won't do you any good buying RAM that's faster than PC4200, though. Your motherboard won't overclock at all. It doesn't even have the ability in the BIOS to change the FSB speed. That means that you're stuck with whatever speed processor you buy, period. You'd be much, much better off spending your money on an overclocking motherboard, rather than wasting it on buying RAM that's faster.

He makes a really good point i didnn't check what mobo u were using.
U gotta make sure the mobo u use can support higher fsb increments.

A good budget motherboard would be the Asus P5N-E SLI for overclocking.
Or even the Msi version which is the P6N SLI-FI which should be cheaper.

BTW if you want to overclock your ram DO NOT fill up all 4 slots. Ram does not overclock nearly as well when u have all ram slots filled.

 

[Oblivion121]

Well also I never wanted to try OC'in the ram because it was running very hot and these dont have heatspreaders on them at all, so was thinking if i did try to do that I would get overheated ram, but when I look at the motherboard manual, the specs on newegg.com and even at the abit website, they all say only 667, and a tech support person told me that as well so when my dad told me i got it...I didnt try using it because those all said that 533 wouldnt work on that board, thats ok anyway, I did get a new board ordered. Everybody give me all the OC knowledge and stuff you can about the Gigabyte GA-965p-DS3 With Wintec AMPX DDR2 800 PC2 6400 Ram (2x 1 gig sticks). Also with the Core 2 duo e6300. Tell me everything I can do to squeeze as much juice as I can out of it.

Also one more thing, I have a psu that is making me kinda on the edge to use because its only a 550w JustPC psu that came with the case. Will that psu be able to handle my new board, my C2d, A sapphire radeon x1800xt, the ram i just listed, 3 hdd's, 3 dvd burners and a very generic tv tuner and wireless card?

 

[myocardia]

JustPC, which used to call themselves Just4PC, are the second-worst manufacturer of psu's on the planet. Good choice on all of the other components, though. You'll need to buy a decent power supply, though, like (at the minimum) this 450 watt FSP, which has about twice as much useable power as that 10,550 watt JustPC.

 

[Oblivion121]

Well id rather be safe than sorry, is there a cheap 500 watt psu similar to that with sata and pcie on it as well.

How would this psu do for my setup?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182065

I really wanna have like a tiny bit extra wattage cause I do wanna add possibly another sata hdd and maybe a new graphics card....like an x1900xt or an x1950pro...Somethin like that but nothing thats power hungly like an 8800gtx.

 

[myocardia]

Sure, there are 100's of better psu's than that one. If I were building the same PC you're building now, I'd buy this Enhance 5150GH. It's not only got enough power to power that system with the cpu overclocked, but also enough to handle a better video card, which will use more power. It's definitely the best deal around in psu's that I know of, and won't have any problems powering that system.