Why is Frodo considered the hero? Why wasn't it Sam?

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
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I don't recall Frodo doing anything really heroic. All he did was constantly succumb to the Ring and have Sam save him. In the end, he didn't even throw the Ring into the molten river. Instead, he put it back on and wanted to keep it.

Sam is the real hero.

If Lord of the Rings was a religion, would this cause a splinter of the religion? Like some would believe that Frodo is the hero while others would believe it was all a lie (pershaps a conspiracy from the descendants of Frodo to maintain privelege in society) and that Sam is the real hero. Therefore Sam's descendants are the ones who are blessed from God and stuff -- not Frodo's decendants.
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
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yeah, all he did was carry it
rolleye.gif
 

Gravity

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2003
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He was the ring bearer, chosen by the ring. Sam may not have stood up to the temptation to use the ring for evil. Then again, we may never know.
 

Ness

Diamond Member
Jul 10, 2002
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Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
yeah, all he did was carry it
rolleye.gif

No doubt. You have a guy half the size of all these armed and armored men standing around trying to figure out who should take the ring... and the smallest guy in the group has the balls to take on the biggest challenge in the world... nothing heroic about that.


If I wasn't lazy, I'd find the quote about the fate of the world being on the edge of a sword... that kinda puts things in perspective.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
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To answer your question: Yes, it is things like this which can splinter religions.
 

JackDawkins

Senior member
Aug 15, 2003
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Sam was Frodo's sidekick; sidekicks are never heroes but they can be heroic when the plot requires it.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Originally posted by: Gravity
He was the ring bearer, chosen by the ring. Sam may not have stood up to the temptation to use the ring for evil. Then again, we may never know.

No. The ring did NOT choose Frodo. Some "power" for good did.

Frodo is A hero. There are many. Frodo had the main burden to bear though.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
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If we assume Tolkien is Catholic, we can see a clear parallel to Mary.

Eve is disobedient.
Mary is obedient, and it allows for the undoing of original sin.
She a young girl, innocent, but on the verge of womanhood, is ask if she will bear the Christ Child, and she says yes.
She is not sure what she is getting herself into:
Luke 1:34
"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
but, she is obedient:
Luke 1:38
?I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said."



Feanor is disobedient.
Frodo is obedient, and it allows for the downfall of Sauron.
He is a young hobbit, right on the cusp of becoming an adult.
Lord of the Rings - Fellowship of the Ring at, the council of Elrond, he does nto know what he is getting into ( I do not know the way), but he is obedient:

At last with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice.
?I will take the ring,? he said, ?though I do not know the way.?

In both stories obedience is more important than ?power.?
Another example ? Saruman is more powerful than Gandalf, but Gandalf is more obedient.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,730
561
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Yeah, Sam is the hero. Frodo is just some tool bag that lets the ring pwn him...but it is an immense burden. It is Sam who keeps him grounded, who is loyal to him and saves him many a time.

In the movie, Frodo basically disowns sam in favor of Gollum...Which is my biggest peeve with the entire series. In the book, and in the movie IMO Sam would never leave Frodo and Frodo always trusted Sam and distrusted Gollum.
 

Freejack2

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2000
7,751
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Enh, I supposed I'd go with them both being heros. Still in the end it was Gollum who inadvertently destroys the ring.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
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Frodo is obedient to Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Illúvatar.
Sam is obedient to Frodo.
Eru > Frodo > Sam
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
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Originally posted by: ndee
Who is Eru? I read the books although I don't recall that name.

The Ainulindalë:

"There was Eru, the ONE, who in Arda is called Illúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made. And he spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before him, and he was glad. But for a long while they sang only each alone, or but few together, while the rest hearkened; for each comprehended only that part of the mind of Illúvatar from which he came, and in the understanding of their brethren they grew but slowly. Yet ever as they listened they came to deeper understanding, and increased in unison and harmony.

And it came to pass that Illúvatar called together all the Ainur and declared to them a mighty theme, unfolding to them things greater and more wonderful that he had yet revealed; and they glory of its beginning and the splendour of its end amazed the Ainur, so that they bowed before Illúvatar and were silent.

Then Illúvatar said to them: ?Of the theme that I have declared to you, I will now that ye make in harmony together a Great Music. And since I have kindled you with the Flame Imperishable, ye shall show forth your powers in adorning this theme, each with his own thoughts and devices, if he will. But I will sit and hearken, and be glad that through you great beauty has been wakened into song.?

Then the voices of the Ainur, like unto harps and lutes, and pipes and trumpets, and viols and organs, and like unto countless choirs singing with words, began to fashion the theme of Illúvatar to a great music; and a sound arose of endless interchanging melodies woven in a harmony that passed beyond hearing into the depths and into the heights, and the places of the dwelling of Illúvatar were filled to overflowing, and the music and the echo of the music went out into the Void, and it was not void. Never since have the Ainur made any music like to this music, though it has been said that a greater still shall be made before Illúvatar by the choirs of the Ainur and the Children of Illúvatar after the end of days. Then the themes of Illúvatar shall be played aright, and take Being in the moment of their utterance, for all shall then understand fully his intent in their part, and each shall know the comprehension of each, and Illúvatar shall give to their thoughts the secret fire, being well pleased.

But now Illúvatar sat and hearkened, and for a great while it seemed good to him, for in the music there were no flaws. But as the theme progressed, it came into the heart of Melkor to interweave matters of his own imagining that were not in accord with the theme of Illúvatar; for he sought therein to increase the power and glory of the part assigned to himself. To Melkor among the Ainur had been given the greatest gifts of his brethren. He had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame; for desire grew hot within him to bring into Being things of his own and it seemed to him that Illúvatar took no thought for the Void, and he was impatient of its emptiness. Yet he found not the Fire, for it is with Illúvatar. But being alone he had begun to conceive thoughts of his own unlike those of his brethren.

Some of these thoughts he now wove into his music, and straightaway discord arose about him, and many that sang nigh him grew despondent, and their thought was disturbed and their music faltered; but some began to attune their music to his rather than to the thought which they had at first. Then the discord of Melkor spread ever wider, and the melodies which had been heard before foundered in a sea of turbulent sound. But Illúvatar sat and hearkened until it seemed that about his throne there was a raging storm, as of dark waters that made war one upon another in an endless wrath that would not be assuaged.

Then Illúvatar arose, and the Ainur perceived that he smiled; and he lifted up his left hand, and anew theme began amid the storm, like and yet unlike to the former theme, and it gathered power and had new beauty. But the discord of Melkor rose in uproar and contended with it, and again there was a war of sound more violent that before, until many of the Ainur were dismayed and sang no longer, and Melkor had the mastery. Then again Illúvatar arose, and the Ainur perceived that his countenance was stern; and he lifted up his right hand, and behold! A third theme grew amid the confusion, and it was unlike the others. For it seemed at first soft and sweet, a mere rippling of gentle sounds in delicate melodies; but it could not be quenched, and it took to itself power and profundity. And it seemed at last that there was two musics progressing at one time before the seat of Illúvatar, and they were utterly at variance. The one was deep and wide and beautiful but slow and blended with an immeasurable sorrow, from which its beauty chiefly came. The other had now achieved a unity of its own; but it was loud, and vain, and endlessly repeated; and it had little harmony, but rather a clamorous unison as of many trumpets braying upon a few notes. And it was essayed to drown the other music by the violence of its voice, but it seemed that its most triumphant notes were taken by the other and woven into its own solemn pattern.

In the midst of this strife, where as the halls of Illúvatar shook and a tremor ran out into the silences yet unmoved, Illúvatar arose a third time, and his face was terrible to behold. Then he raised up both his hands, and in one chord, deeper than the Abyss, higher than the Firmament, piercing as light of the eye of Illúvatar, the Music ceased.

Then Illúvatar spoke, and he said: ?Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Illúvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, that ye may see what ye have done. And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.?

Then the Ainur were afraid, and they did not yet comprehend the words that were said to them; and Melkor was filled with shame, of which came secret anger. But Illúvatar arose in splendour, and he went forth from the fair regions that he had made for the Ainur; and the Ainur followed him.

But when they were come into the Void, Illúvatar said to them: ?Behold your Music!? And he showed to them a vision, giving to them sight where before was only hearing; and they say a new World made visible before them, and it was globed amid the Void, and it was sustained therein, but was not of it. And as they looked and wondered this World began to unfold its history, and it seemed to them that it lived and grew. And when the Ainur had gazed for a while and were silent, Illúvatar said again: ?Behold your Music! This is your minstrelsy; and each of you shall find contained therein, amid the design that I set before you, all those things which it may seem that he himself devised or added. And thou, Melkor, wilt discover all the secret thoughts of thy mind, and wilt perceive that they are but a part of the whole and tributary to its glory.? "





 

Amorphus

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
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cliffs?

btw - the book goes into much greater detail. in the movie, it seems like Frodo is being carried the entire way by Sam. while Sam is a great aid to Frodo, and a great friend to him the entire time, Frodo had to do the entire thing by himself. when Sam had the ring in his possession, he never wore it, because he knew he couldn't handle it.
 

cerebusPu

Diamond Member
May 27, 2000
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frodo's peepee was larger than sams. and they were totally gay for each other.

Frodo had a greater burden to carry. sam was cool too. they are both heros in my book.
 

FunkMastaFlex

Member
Dec 5, 1999
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Originally posted by: Amorphus
cliffs?

btw - the book goes into much greater detail. in the movie, it seems like Frodo is being carried the entire way by Sam. while Sam is a great aid to Frodo, and a great friend to him the entire time, Frodo had to do the entire thing by himself. when Sam had the ring in his possession, he never wore it, because he knew he couldn't handle it.


Actually, Sam did wear the ring, after Frodo was stabbed - he used it to hide from the orcs who recovered Frodo, and, because he was invisible, learned that Frodo was alive.

Frodo was the Ring-Bearer, the only one on the planet who could have taken the Ring to the Crack of Doom. However, even he couldn't destroy it, instead being saved by Providence - a reward for Frodo and Sam's mercy in not killing Gollum.

Sam wearing the Ring was important in his sparing of Gollum - though he only had the Ring for two days, he understood what the Ring had done, and therefore spared Gollum.


-Funk


 

kami

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
17,627
5
81
No one ever really said he was the main hero. He is one of the central characters because he is the ringbearer. Obviously it has to focus on him a lot.

The book (and the movie) ends with Samwise. I think that says a lot.