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Why is every seal on my engine going bad?

boomhower

boomhower

Diamond Member
I dropped the car off to get some oil leaks looked at and got the call. He was said it was leaking out the distibitor cap, valve cover, timing belt, and rear main seal. He mentioned the rear main seal was starting to go last time I was there when he did the master cylinder. Since they are already that far into the car you might as well go the water pump and the clutch. Now the bill is hitting $1000 bill. The car has !120K and seems to be in generally good condition, The tranny is a bit notchy but nothing horrific.

I guess the questions are:

1. Reasonable for all the listed parts to go out at roughly the same time?
2. Cost for the repairs sound reasonable?
3. The car has 120K on it, is it worth looking at a rebuilt motor, or a different vehicle all together at this point.

I am just trying get some ideas floating around before I make a decision tommarrow.
 
Have you changed the type of oil you use? If you switched to synthetics it will make any small leaks more noticeable.

For a '94 though it's completely believable that the seals are just getting old.
 
i have been using quater state 5w30 or 10w40. So no switch to synthetics in my budget. It's just getting scary close to what it will cost to replace it. I wonder what it will cost to get a peak at the internals to get a guess of what they will last affter all this work. I would hate to get the car back and the bitch throws a rod the next week.
 
Originally posted by: boomhower
i have been using quater state 5w30 or 10w40. So no switch to synthetics in my budget. It's just getting scary close to what it will cost to replace it. I wonder what it will cost to get a peak at the internals to get a guess of what they will last affter all this work. I would hate to get the car back and the bitch throws a rod the next week.
Click to expand...

If you're confident that you've maintained it I wouldn't blink about fixing the current problems. If you know the work has been done when it needed it (oil changes, replaced timing belt, etc) you should get plenty more miles out of it.

Just think though, a car payment would probably be at least $200+ a month. If $1000 makes the car last 5 months you come out ahead. Everything else after that is savings.
 
At 120k those service items are no big deal.. valve cover gasket is easy and cheap, distributor rotor/cap/seal are maintenance items, timing belt/water pump are routine maintenance items.. the only odd one is the rear-main seal - but if they are already in there, they may as well do that and the clutch.

I think 1200 bucks including clutch (and parts for all of the above?) is a fair price.

If you haven't done other maintenance, consider doing plugs, accessory belts, air filter, fuel filter (if that car has a serviceable one, i.e. on that is not attached to the fuel tank), and coolant flush done... 120k is nothing (assuming you have some idea of the history of the vehicle).

 
He quoted a $1000 for parts and labor including the clutch. Plus another $70 for the rear brakes, which I already knew I just needed to figure out what was going on with the engine first.

Captain Howdy: PCV? You have me lost on that one.

njmodi: The plugs and wires were done within the last 20K. I'll check on the belts and fuel filter.
 
No .. PCV means Positive Crankcase Ventilation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_valve

The price quoted at $1000 if that is all parts and labor, but probably without tax is not too bad. Parts for the clutch alone would run about $150 - $200 and you may need to resurface the flywheel. Won't know till it is apart. And yes, I would do the water pump while you are doing the timing belt, as it usually needs to come off to get to the timing belt. Don't forget a new tensioner for the timing belt, and maybe new accessory or serpentine belt, depending on how the car is set up.
 
I would strongly suspect the PCV system is not keeping up with the blowby and that the crankcase is pressurizing this will inevitably start causing leaks. Many time the problem is as simple as cleaning the PCV system just changing the PCV valve is not enough, make sure there are no pinched or blocked hoses, more common than you think. If the crankcase ventilation system can't keep up replacing seals is usually a wast of money. Of course if your rings are sticking or worn then it may be that there is just more blowby volume that the PCV system can handle if so internal engine work is in your future.

 
Originally posted by: boomhower
I dropped the car off to get some oil leaks looked at and got the call. He was said it was leaking out the distibitor cap, valve cover, timing belt, and rear main seal. He mentioned the rear main seal was starting to go last time I was there when he did the master cylinder. Since they are already that far into the car you might as well go the water pump and the clutch. Now the bill is hitting $1000 bill. The car has !120K and seems to be in generally good condition, The tranny is a bit notchy but nothing horrific.

I guess the questions are:

1. Reasonable for all the listed parts to go out at roughly the same time?
2. Cost for the repairs sound reasonable?
3. The car has 120K on it, is it worth looking at a rebuilt motor, or a different vehicle all together at this point.

I am just trying get some ideas floating around before I make a decision tommarrow.
Click to expand...

I had this happen to my wife's Camry once. It was an old one (91) with high mileage like yours. Pretty much what one mechanic told me since all of those seals were installed in the engine in the same time and all of them were exposed to similar heat/pressures and oil at the same time there will come a time where the rubber start to break down. I found out the hard way when I changed the valve cover seal to have the top cam seal start leaking a month afterwards then the bottom cam then the rear main then the distribiter.

Your better off getting a master seal/gasket kit and pulling the entire engine changing all seals gaskets.
 
Go ahead and switch to a heavier/thicker oil. It may not take care of your leak/seal problem, but it will slow down some of those. This is pretty typical of older cars.
The valve cover gasket, plugs, wires, and distributor cap you can do pretty easily yourself and should be part of a typical tuneup. (I'm assuming this is a 4cyl)
The timing belt is due to be replaced if it hasn't been already, but I wouldn't do that myself as I'm only a shade-tree mechanic.
The rear seal you might be able to get by for a while without, but you may as well take care of that when your timing belt is replaced.

Remember that your car is 15yr old. This type of maintainence is normal. Once you got this stuff out of the way, you will probably come out with a vehicle that will last you for a long time. Hondas aren't bulletproof despite what the fanboys say. They need some TLC after a while, just like the domestics. At 120k, as long as the body is still in good condition, you still have a damn good vehicle. Don't give up on her...
 
The valve cover has to be done. As has been mentioned the timing belt and water pump are due anyways. They were closed today. I am going to see them monday and see if the rear seal can wait. The clutch is fine and I would rather wait until it is due if possible, that would cut somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 off. We'll see. The body is fine and for the most part the rest of the car is in good shape.
 
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Go ahead and switch to a heavier/thicker oil. It may not take care of your leak/seal problem, but it will slow down some of those. This is pretty typical of older cars.
The valve cover gasket, plugs, wires, and distributor cap you can do pretty easily yourself and should be part of a typical tuneup. (I'm assuming this is a 4cyl)
The timing belt is due to be replaced if it hasn't been already, but I wouldn't do that myself as I'm only a shade-tree mechanic.
The rear seal you might be able to get by for a while without, but you may as well take care of that when your timing belt is replaced.

Remember that your car is 15yr old. This type of maintainence is normal. Once you got this stuff out of the way, you will probably come out with a vehicle that will last you for a long time. Hondas aren't bulletproof despite what the fanboys say. They need some TLC after a while, just like the domestics. At 120k, as long as the body is still in good condition, you still have a damn good vehicle. Don't give up on her...
Click to expand...

Replacing the timing belt will not give access for replacing the rear main seal, it's on the other side of the crankshaft..
 
I talked to the guy this mourning. I ended up deciding to have him fix everything except the rear main seal. Figure I have nothing to lose. If its leaking bad then I'll take it back. I am hoping it is just a drip and can hang on until the clutch needs done. For the valve cover, distributor seal, timing belt, water pump, and rear brakes will be $675-$725. Sounds reasonable to me, thoughts?
 
Valve cover is only $40. I am not touching my brakes, I just don't trust myself to do them. I know I likely could by the risk of screwing it up and killing myself or my kids isn't worth the cash.
 
The rear main seal was bad. He fixed had fixed everything and put it back together. Fired it up and let it idle a couple minutes and there was a decent sized puddle forming. I'll get it back Friday and the damn thing better run damn well.
 
Don't let LOUISSSSS see this thread! Impossible. It's a honda, they NEVER break!


😛

Joking aside, at 15 years old it doesn't surprise me that seals are going out.


 
My wife has a 94 EX with the automatic. It has 260K miles on it and that seal has been out for a long time.

We just watch the oil every 2-3 weeks. I've switched to 5w30 from 10w30 and that has helped a lot. We have been oil spots in our garage from her car, but being a 94 with 260K miles... I'm not going to dump a lot of money into it.

Other problem with her is the ABS light has been on for some time and the A/C system has be charged every summer. It's solid car other than that and just keeps on going.
 
Didn't get it back. Said it was still leaking. Where the hell else can it be leaking from? I racked my brain and from what they replaced I can't think of anything but the head gasket, which can't be as it wasn't exhibiting any symptoms, and the exhaust manifold. What else am I missing?
 
Originally posted by: boomhower
Didn't get it back. Said it was still leaking. Where the hell else can it be leaking from? I racked my brain and from what they replaced I can't think of anything but the head gasket, which can't be as it wasn't exhibiting any symptoms, and the exhaust manifold. What else am I missing?
Click to expand...

If you're sure it's oil and not power steering fluid or something?

For oil all you have are front and rear main seals, oil pump shaft seal, oil pump o ring, distributor seal or o ring, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, cam seals, PCV...

Hmm lets see what else..

Oil cooler or filter adapter assembly, any misc external oil lines for things like VTEC...

Oil pressure sensor...

Drain plug grommet...

*thinking of more*

Excessive leaking out of numerous places indicates a malfunction of the PCV system and excessive crank case pressure, which is easily compounded and masked by aged seals. Pull the oil fill cap or dipstick out while the engine is running and feel/listen for excessive "puffing".
 
Well I got it back. He said it was leaking around the cam adjuster, I think he just didn't get it done and was trying to by himself some more time, he didn't charge me anything extra. Its going back tomorrow though, the check engine light is on and the clutch engages about and inch off the floor. Starting to get irritating.
 
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