Why is China such a selfish country?

[Svnla]

@ rchiu, I am going to teach you a few lessons in history. Open your eyes and learn.

..."there has never been declaration of independence for those territories <Tibet, Xinjiang and Mongolia>to become a country."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet

Following the collapse of the Qing dynasty in 1912, Qing soldiers were escorted out of Tibet and Tibet declared its independence. The region maintained its autonomy until 1951 when, following a military conflict, Tibet was incorporated into the People's Republic of China

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolia

During the collapse of the Qing Dynasty in 1911, Mongolia declared independence, but had to struggle until 1921 to firmly establish de facto independence from the Republic of China, and until 1945 to gain international recognition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang

In the Kashgar region on November 12, 1933, the short-lived self-proclaimed East Turkistan Republic was declared, after some debate over whether the proposed independent state should be called "East Turkestan" or "Uyghuristan."[33][34] The region claimed by the ETR in theory encompassed Kashgar, Khotan and Aqsu prefectures in southwestern Xinjiang

....."Really, what's your point of bringing thousands years of history when we are talking about recent time?"

How about since the creation of red commie China in 1949? Would that do? China attacked and invaded nations that I mentioned above in the 50s.

China attacked India in 1962 and is still occupying land of India = http://en. wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War.

China attacked Vietnam in 1979 and is still occupying land of Vietnam = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War .

..."And sure, if you want to compare incident with one boat here and there to the invasion of entire country"

China attacked South Vietnam in 1974 at Paracel Islands and murdered Vietnamese sailors without any causes or provocations = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands

China attacked unarmed Vietnamese sailors and unarmed transport ship in 1988 at Spratly Islands = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2ZrFphSmc

Chinese armed ships harrash and cut cable of Vietnam unarmed survey ship (while the ship was well within Vietnam EEZ per UNCLOS) = http://the-diplomat.com/2011/06/12/how-china-can-avoid-next-conflict/

Chinese ships harassed unarmed US survey ship in international water = http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-09/politics/us.navy.china_1_chinese-ships-chinese-vessels-chinese-media?_s=PMOLITICS

Chinese fighter jet harassed and crashed into unarmed survey US airplane in international airspace = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

China claims the whole sea as its "core" interest (look at how ridiculous the red line is ) = http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/54145000/gif/_54145268__48951920_south_china-sea_1_466-1.gif

I think I have done enough. Now it is your turn to provide links/sources to back up your statements and I don't mean from People Daily or Xinhua or red commie China articles.

Please continue with 'open mouth, insert foot, repeat'.

 

[Riparian]

"A better distribution of wealth"


What do you mean by this?

Under Maoist/Communist economic policies wealth generation was stifled and kept from occurring beyond the limited measure allowed by the Communist party for individuals in China and this inevitably led to a very low standard of living for the majority of people who were not high up ChiCom party members.

It was only when they (the upper ChiCom party) ditched these policies in favor of more capitalist leaning policies and ideals that the current state of economic affairs began to change for the average indivdual and the standard of living increased.

We can be blunt and just call China what it is. It's a political dictatorship with a semi-capitalistic slant in its economic policies. My point in saying "a better distribution of wealth" is similar to the US principal of a strong middle class. You want most of the people to have a decent living wage in order for them to be content. Agrarian portions of China are still absurdly poor but the large metropolis are showing a more balanced income level, meaning reduced disparity. The less disparity, the more stable the society. The more stable the society, the more opportunities for those people to focus on things other than just pure survival, such as culture and politics.

 

[rchiu]

@ rchiu, I am going to teach you a few lessons in history. Open your eyes and learn.

..."there has never been declaration of independence for those territories <Tibet, Xinjiang and Mongolia>to become a country."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang

....."Really, what's your point of bringing thousands years of history when we are talking about recent time?"

How about since the creation of red commie China in 1949? Would that do? China attacked and invaded nations that I mentioned above in the 50s.

China attacked India in 1962 and is still occupying land of India = http://en. wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War.

China attacked Vietnam in 1979 and is still occupying land of Vietnam = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War .

..."And sure, if you want to compare incident with one boat here and there to the invasion of entire country"

China attacked South Vietnam in 1974 at Paracel Islands and murdered Vietnamese sailors without any causes or provocations = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands

China attacked unarmed Vietnamese sailors and unarmed transport ship in 1988 at Spratly Islands = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2ZrFphSmc

Chinese armed ships harrash and cut cable of Vietnam unarmed survey ship (while the ship was well within Vietnam EEZ per UNCLOS) = http://the-diplomat.com/2011/06/12/how-china-can-avoid-next-conflict/

Chinese ships harassed unarmed US survey ship in international water = http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-09/politics/us.navy.china_1_chinese-ships-chinese-vessels-chinese-media?_s=PMOLITICS

Chinese fighter jet harassed and crashed into unarmed survey US airplane in international airspace = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

China claims the whole sea as its "core" interest (look at how ridiculous the red line is ) = http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/54145000/gif/_54145268__48951920_south_china-sea_1_466-1.gif

I think I have done enough. Now it is your turn to provide links/sources to back up your statements and I don't mean from People Daily or Xinhua or red commie China articles.

Please continue with 'open mouth, insert foot, repeat'.

Heh, you forget one thing about the formal recognition of a country. You need international community recognition and/or concession by the formal ruling country either through winning a war or other political means. If not, it's still internal affair within the ruling country.

Go back to your link and see which "country" had any international recognition as a formal country? Here is link for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_sovereignty_debate

Quote
---
Other tibetologists write that no country publicly accepts Tibet as an independent state,[105][106][107][108] although there are several instances of government officials appealing to their superiors to do so.[109][110] Treaties signed by Britain and Russia in the early years of the 20th century,[6][111] and others signed by Nepal and India in the 1950s,[112] recognized Tibet's political subordination to China. The Americans presented their view on 15 May 1943:

For its part, the Government of the United States has borne in mind the fact that...the Chinese constitution lists Tibet among areas constituting the territory of the Republic of China. This Government has at no time raised a question regarding either of these claims.[44][113]
---

The debate on XingJiang is even less, one uprising in 1933 and quickly crashed. Do I need to show you that no country recognize XingJiang as a country in any fashion too?

By the way, I don't know if you know the difference or not, we were talking about inner Mongolia, which is still part of China and you are linking the Mongolia the country which did get the concession by China in 1949 as a formal state, and was never "invaded" by Chinese.

India and Vietnam conflicts is a result of border conflict and proxy war with Russia, both war lasted about a month, and and it was never the scale of American invasion and occupation of 2 entire countries. Those two wars are at best classified as border conflicts and not an invasion.

And seriously why are you talking about one ship, one aircraft incident. How does that compare to the invasion of Iraq, killing tens (if not hundreds) of thousands Iraqi military and civilians? And how those related to my original quote, "China has not invaded any country".

So there, no formal recognized country invaded. Boarder conflicts lasted one full month and few boat incident here and there. So where is the country invaded by China?

Here is a definition of invasion from Wiki if you still want to blah blah what Chinese did:

An invasion is a military offensive consisting of all, or large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively entering territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government, or a combination thereof. An invasion can be the cause of a war, be a part of a larger strategy to end a war, or it can constitute an entire war in itself. Due to the large scale of the operations associated with invasions, they are usually strategic in planning and execution.

 

[Svnla]

@ rchiu, are you for real? Is that how you debate?

You said and I quote "there has never been declaration of independence for those territories to become a country". I provided links to prove your statement was wrong and then you had to choice but backpedal with but..but..but..blah blah blah. What's next? No approval from Chairman Mao so it did not count? LOL.

One ship, one aircraft incident? I gave you not one, not two, but SEVERAL links about the REPEATING pattern of aggressive behavior from red commie China against smaller neighbors in the East Sea, even against the US. You call the attacks at Paracel and Spratly Islands as "one ship, one aicraft"? I do believe those attacks involved more than one ship and/or one aircraft. Do you even read/watch the links?

From your OWN definition of invasion as " military offensive consisting of all, or large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively entering territory controlled by another such entity". Let see, China attacked Vietnam, India and is still occupying land around the border = Invasion. China attacked Vietnam, Phillipines at Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands and is occupying those islands = Invasion. Period.

You kept saying about US invaded Iraq and Afghan. I don't remember US is planning to stay in Iraq/Afghan forever and moving its people to take over those two nations as whole as China has been doing in Tibet, Xinjiang, Mongolia.

One more thing, how do you feel if I and a bunch of thugs take over your front and back yards, demand you/your family members get my permission to go anywhere. I can stop and beat up your friends/family members who come to visit and then demand ransom money to release them. That is perfectly fine right? I did not enter your house = no invasion, right? That's exactly what is going on with China's treatment to smaller neighbors at the East Sea. Look at the pathetic "tongue of cow" picture from red commie China I provided earlier from the BBC.

As I said, keep on 'open mouth, insert foot, repeat'. Oh, and 'keep on digging with that shovel'.

 

[rchiu]

@ rchiu, are you for real? Is that how you debate?

You said and I quote "there has never been declaration of independence for those territories to become a country". I provided links to prove your statement was wrong and then you had to choice but backpedal with but..but..but..blah blah blah. What's next? No approval from Chairman Mao so it did not count? LOL.

One ship, one aircraft incident? I gave you not one, not two, but SEVERAL links about the REPEATING pattern of aggressive behavior from red commie China against smaller neighbors in the East Sea, even against the US. You call the attacks at Paracel and Spratly Islands as "one ship, one aicraft"? I do believe those attacks involved more than one ship and/or one aircraft. Do you even read/watch the links?

From your OWN definition of invasion as " military offensive consisting of all, or large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively entering territory controlled by another such entity". Let see, China attacked Vietnam, India and is still occupying land around the border = Invasion. China attacked Vietnam, Phillipines at Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands and is occupying those islands = Invasion. Period.

You kept saying about US invaded Iraq and Afghan. I don't remember US is planning to stay in Iraq/Afghan forever and moving its people to take over those two nations as whole as China has been doing in Tibet, Xinjiang, Mongolia.

One more thing, how do you feel if I and a bunch of thugs take over your front and back yards, demand you/your family members get my permission to go anywhere. I can stop and beat up your friends/family members who come to visit and then demand ransom money to release them. That is perfectly fine right? I did not enter your house = no invasion, right? That's exactly what is going on with China's treatment to smaller neighbors at the East Sea. Look at the pathetic "tongue of cow" picture from red commie China I provided earlier from the BBC.

As I said, keep on 'open mouth, insert foot, repeat'. Oh, and 'keep on digging with that shovel'.

Back pedal? My quote was the invasion of nations to begin with, which by the way you seem to forget to address. My referring to those territory didn't declare independence was in the context of they did not became independent and recognized nations. Hey but if cannot address the fact that unlike US, China has not invaded countries and you want to pick my wording out of context, go right ahead.

And go ahead and mark Paracel Island and Spartly Island as Vietnam/Philippine territory when everyone else in the world knows that's disputed area. I know you don't have much material to back up your claim of China invasion theory so you gotta to make up some story. Just like you classify what Chinese do in their own internationally recognized backyard as invasion, but find excuse for the US like but but they are not gonna stay in Iraq and Afghan....yeah okay.

Like I said, Chinese conflicts at the boarder, disputed area, harsh treatment of their own people and territories trying to become independent, sure. You need to understand the need for countries to protect their sovereignty. Or are you saying Lincoln should just let the south become independent without a fight?

But invasion of Iraq has nothing to do with sovereignty, it's not even about WMD, it's some BS American political crap, pushing American way (or shall we say American politics friendly way) in the oil rich region, for the control of cheaper oil and also critical military strategic resource. If that's not selfish, I dunno what.

 

[Broheim]

Back pedal? My quote was the invasion of nations to begin with, which by the way you seem to forget to address. My referring to those territory didn't declare independence was in the context of they did not became independent and recognized nations. Hey but if cannot address the fact that unlike US, China has not invaded countries and you want to pick my wording out of context, go right ahead.

And go ahead and mark Paracel Island and Spartly Island as Vietnam/Philippine territory when everyone else in the world knows that's disputed area. I know you don't have much material to back up your claim of China invasion theory so you gotta to make up some story. Just like you classify what Chinese do in their own internationally recognized backyard as invasion, but find excuse for the US like but but they are not gonna stay in Iraq and Afghan....yeah okay.

Like I said, Chinese conflicts at the boarder, disputed area, harsh treatment of their own people and territories trying to become independent, sure. You need to understand the need for countries to protect their sovereignty. Or are you saying Lincoln should just let the south become independent without a fight?

But invasion of Iraq has nothing to do with sovereignty, it's not even about WMD, it's some BS American political crap, pushing American way (or shall we say American politics friendly way) in the oil rich region, for the control of cheaper oil and also critical military strategic resource. If that's not selfish, I dunno what.

so erm, just to get this straight...

Isreal invading Palestine = bad
China invading Tibet = all good in the hood

and just to quote yourself

...
The problem is, they are not, they are killing, injuring and displacing civilian. Their response is disporportionate and against the wrong people. Same thing they have been doing for the past 40 year. Don't know how ppl who have a shred of compassion can support a country that has been doing that for the past 40 years.

 

[rchiu]

so erm, just to get this straight...

Isreal invading Palestine = bad
China invading Tibet = all good in the hood

and just to quote yourself

For the nth time, Tibet is part of China, and it's not an invasion. Palestine is recognized by 2/3 of the countries in the world, and yes that includes China but US is strangely not included. What Isreal doing there is clearly discriminatory and destroying Palestinian people, their economy and their life.

In Tibet, their economy grows like ~12% since 2000, China built a high speed rail to connect the region to the coastal area, boosting tourism. The only unrest is from those religion incited independent movement.

Funny how I keep defending China when I don't even like China, their human right record sucks, and their lack of respect for freedom of speech sucks. But we are talking about country being selfish, country interfering with international business and community for self interest. And boy some people here don't have the first clue how much US has done internationally, not just more than China, but any other countries in the world, in the name of self interest.

 

[Svnla]

Back pedal? My quote was the invasion of nations to begin with, which by the way you seem to forget to address. My referring to those territory didn't declare independence was in the context of they did not became independent and recognized nations. Hey but if cannot address the fact that unlike US, China has not invaded countries and you want to pick my wording out of context, go right ahead.

And go ahead and mark Paracel Island and Spartly Island as Vietnam/Philippine territory when everyone else in the world knows that's disputed area. I know you don't have much material to back up your claim of China invasion theory so you gotta to make up some story. Just like you classify what Chinese do in their own internationally recognized backyard as invasion, but find excuse for the US like but but they are not gonna stay in Iraq and Afghan....yeah okay.

Like I said, Chinese conflicts at the boarder, disputed area, harsh treatment of their own people and territories trying to become independent, sure. You need to understand the need for countries to protect their sovereignty. Or are you saying Lincoln should just let the south become independent without a fight?

But invasion of Iraq has nothing to do with sovereignty, it's not even about WMD, it's some BS American political crap, pushing American way (or shall we say American politics friendly way) in the oil rich region, for the control of cheaper oil and also critical military strategic resource. If that's not selfish, I dunno what.

Ok, I am going to say it s-l-o-w-l-y so you will get it.

1. This thread is about China, and NOT about the US so stop the "but but..but Johnny did bad things too" excuse. How old are you? BTW, no one (especially me - in this thread or anywhere else) in this thread says what the US did in Iraq/Afghan were all good.

2. You compared Tibet/Xinjiang/Mongolia struggle with the US Civil War, really? Did you see the Confederate leaders had to leave the US as His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama had to leave Tibet? Did you see any uprisings in the Confederate as it is going on right now in Tibet and Xinjiang? Did you see any people burn themselves to death in protest in the Confederate as it is going on right now in Tibet? Did you hear about all the culture genocide China is doing with Tibet? Funny how you "FORGOT" to mention that in your so called "comparision".

3. By YOUR OWN definition, China invaded and occupying smaller neighbors. You can make all the excuses you want, the truth speaks for itself.

4. China is not the same, not even close, as Tibet, Xinjiang, Mongolia and those nations are NOT parts of China. Totally different people, culture, language, ways of life, religious, ect. Nice try to say they are parts of China to justify the invasion and occupying. Please educate yourself.

5. Paracel and Spratly Islands are in dispute because China attacked and took them from SOVEREIGN nations of Vietnam and Phillipines. Did you read the Wiki and Youtube links I provided in previous post (#51) or you just spew nonsense out of your behind? Did you see the red line? How do you like it if somone did this to China? (see how stupid and ridiculous the red line of China from the link below? See the blue lines as per the United Nations rules of UNCLOS - which China is a member? See the BIG difference?). Please name one, just one country, is behaving as China - claiming the whole sea as its own and attacking smaller neighbors. Am I going too fast for you?

6. Funny how you still have NOT answer my question about someone takes over your front and back yard in post #54. Not an invasion so it would be fine with you, right?

One last thing, check the news, Chinese armed ships just attacked and capture unarmed and poor fishermen in the East Sea again. Did you keep saying just "one ship, one aircraft" incident over and over? So this is what they mean by if you repeating a lie over and over and over and it will become the truth?

Please continue with your 'open mouth, insert foot'.

 

[rchiu]

Ok, I am going to say it s-l-o-w-l-y so you will get it.

1. This thread is about China, and NOT about the US so stop the "but but..but Johnny did bad things too" excuse. How old are you? BTW, no one (especially me - in this thread or anywhere else) in this thread says what the US did in Iraq/Afghan were all good.

2. You compared Tibet/Xinjiang/Mongolia struggle with the US Civil War, really? Did you see the Confederate leaders had to leave the US as His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama had to leave Tibet? Did you see any uprisings in the Confederate as it is going on right now in Tibet and Xinjiang? Did you see any people burn themselves to death in protest in the Confederate as it is going on right now in Tibet? Did you hear about all the culture genocide China is doing with Tibet? Funny how you "FORGOT" to mention that in your so called "comparision".

3. By YOUR OWN definition, China invaded smaller neighbors. You can make all the excuses you want, the truth speaks for itself.

4. China is not the same as Tibet, Xinjiang, Mongolia and those nations are NOT parts of China. Totally different people, culture, language, ways of life, religious, ect. Nice try to say they are parts of China to justify the invasion. Please educate yourself.

5. Paracel and Spratly Islands are in dispute because China attacked and took them from SOVEREIGN nations of Vietnam and Phillipines. Did you read the Wiki and Youtube links I provided or you just spew nonsense out of your behind? Did you see the red line? How do you like it if somone did this to China? (see how stupid and ridiculous the red line of China from the link below? See the blue lines as per the United Nations rules - which China is a member? See the BIG difference?). Please name one, just one country, is behaving as China - claiming the whole sea as its own. Am I going too fast for you?

6. Funny how you still have NOT answer my question about someone takes over your front and back yard in post #54. Not an invasion so it would be fine with you, right?

One last thing, check the news, Chinese armed ships just attacked and capture unarmed and poor fishermen in the East Sea again. Did you keep saying just "one ship, one aircraft" incident over and over? So this is what they mean by if you repeating a lie over and over and over and it will become the truth?

Please continue with your 'open mouth, insert foot'.

Funny how you talk about UN rule for the Spartly Island and totally disregard UN recognition of Chinese rule of Tibet, Xingjiang, Inner Mongolia? But but Tibet, and other people are not Chinese, different language, culture blah blah? Plenty of countries have different ethnicity, include the US with native Indians. Do they all get to declare independent and become recognized countries? Do YOU get to say who is a dependent nation and who is not? I think not.

We are getting seriously off topic with these debate on land ownership. My original intent wasn't debating who owns what but to note the conflicts are for China to maintain it's sovereignty, just like any country would resort to force, including US when maintaining their sovereignty.

For your point #6, if you are not even clear if that's your front and back yard or your neighbors, I would say the conflict becomes that much understandable. The outcome is usually 1) Who has the bigger stick wins 2) Some judge with grasp of the situation and the mandate to make the decision to make a call.

Sure this thread is about China, but selfish is a relative term and what's the point of debate if we are not measuring China against someone else.

And yes I maintain the invasion of entire country like Iraq war is worse than small incident here and there. Wake me up when Chinese kill a few thousand people for pushing their national interest that is NOT related to maintaining their sovereignty.

 

[Svnla]

Funny how you talk about UN rule for the Spartly Island and totally disregard UN recognition of Chinese rule of Tibet, Xingjiang, Inner Mongolia? But but Tibet, and other people are not Chinese, different language, culture blah blah? Plenty of countries have different ethnicity, include the US with native Indians. Do they all get to declare independent and become recognized countries? Do YOU get to say who is a dependent nation and who is not? I think not.

We are getting seriously off topic with these debate on land ownership. My original intent wasn't debating who owns what but to note the conflicts are for China to maintain it's sovereignty, just like any country would resort to force, including US when maintaining their sovereignty.

For your point #6, if you are not even clear if that's your front and back yard or your neighbors, I would say the conflict becomes that much understandable. The outcome is usually 1) Who has the bigger stick wins 2) Some judge with grasp of the situation and the mandate to make the decision to make a call.

Sure this thread is about China, but selfish is a relative term and what's the point of debate if we are not measuring China against someone else.

And yes I maintain the invasion of entire country like Iraq war is worse than small incident here and there. Wake me up when Chinese kill a few thousand people for pushing their national interest that is NOT related to maintaining their sovereignty.

I said what I need to say (about Tibet/Xinjiang/Mongolia) with solid and well know links/sources/facts (especially #2 about Tibet that you are still unable to dispute it) to back up my statements. The truth speaks for itself. I only can lead a horse to water but can't make it drinks the water.

My # 6 question was and I am quoting "how do you feel if I and a bunch of thugs take over your front and back yards". What part of that you do not understand? I asked if that is ok with you. Yes or No. Very simple to answer.

You still have NOT answer #5 question (see the embeded picture? or do I need to post it again just in case you still can not see it? ). What is the matter?

 

[rchiu]

I said what I need to say (about Tibet/Xinjiang/Mongolia) with solid and well know links/sources/facts (especially #2 about Tibet that you are still unable to dispute it) to back up my statements. The truth speaks for itself. I only can lead a horse to water but can't make it drinks the water.

My # 6 question was and I am quoting "how do you feel if I and a bunch of thugs take over your front and back yards". What part of that you do not understand? I asked if that is ok with you. Yes or No. Very simple to answer.

You still have NOT answer #5 question (see the embeded picture? or do I need to post it again just in case you still can not see it? ). What is the matter?

on #5, maybe you want go back to your trusted friend Wiki and see why China made that claim? I mean Hawaii is 200 miles away from the mainland but it is still part of the US. There is historical and political consideration too you know, that 200 mile UN rule isn't the only thing that people goes by. But again, the point is whatever happen there, is due the dispute, and it's certain not invasion.

#6, like I said, if it's really MY front and back yards, me and my Glock will be waiting for you and your friends. But the situation is different if we don't know that's mine and the the government done a lousy job to define who owns what. Is that too tough for you to understand?

For your #2, I have no clue what you are talking about and why you want to compare Confederate to Tibet. All I am saying it's natural for a country to use force to suppress independent movement and maintain national sovereignty, just like Lincoln did.

 

[Svnla]

on #5, maybe you want go back to your trusted friend Wiki and see why China made that claim? I mean Hawaii is 200 miles away from the mainland but it is still part of the US. There is historical and political consideration too you know, that 200 mile UN rule isn't the only thing that people goes by. But again, the point is whatever happen there, is due the dispute, and it's certain not invasion.

#6, like I said, if it's really MY front and back yards, me and my Glock will be waiting for you and your friends. But the situation is different if we don't know that's mine and the the government done a lousy job to define who owns what. Is that too tough for you to understand?

For your #2, I have no clue what you are talking about and why you want to compare Confederate to Tibet. All I am saying it's natural for a country to use force to suppress independent movement and main national sovereignty, just like Lincoln did.

LOL, nice try to weasle out.

So from your OWN definition of invasion from a previous post (#53) and I am quoting "An invasion is a military offensive consisting of all, or large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively entering territory controlled by another such entity..." and from my wiki and youtube links, China attacked and took Paracel and Spratly Islands controlled by smaller and weaker sovereign neighbors and it is still NOT an invasion? I gotcha.

On #5, I did NOT ask you what would happend or what would you do (and yes the front and back yards were well defined, you live there for years, but somone would come and take it anyway). I asked you IF THAT WOULD BE OK/ACCEPTABLE for someone to do that. Yes or No.

On #2, you compared the struggle of Tibet/Xinjiang/Mongolia with the US Civil War, that's why I posted my reply about the Confederate and Tibet.

One more thing, you still have NOT answer me about the map (the stupid and ridiculous red line of China claim and the blue lines as the UNCLOS- international rules) so I will post it again. Please do tell us the readers if it is perfectly fine/acceptable/reasonable for China to do that? Also, please do give us ONE name, just ONE, of a nation behaving like China -claiming the whole sea as its own. Am I going too fast for you?

 

[rchiu]

LOL, nice try to weasle out.

So from your OWN definition of invasion from a previous post (#53) and I am quoting "An invasion is a military offensive consisting of all, or large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively entering territory controlled by another such entity..." and from my wiki and youtube links, China attacked and took Paracel and Spratly Islands controlled by smaller and weaker sovereign neighbors and it is still NOT an invasion? I gotcha.

On #5, I did NOT ask you what would happend or what would you do (and yes the front and back yards were well defined but somone would come and took it anyway). I asked you IF THAT WOULD BE OK/ACCEPTABLE for someone to do that. Yes or No.

On #2, you compared the struggle of Tibet/Xinjiang/Mongolia with the US Civil War, that's why I posted my reply about the Confederate and Tibet.

One more thing, you still have NOT ansswer me about the map (the stupid and ridiculous red line of China claim and the blue lines as the UNCLOS- international rules) so I will post it again. Please do tell us the readers if it is perfectly fine/acceptable/reasonable for China to do that?

Heh, this is going no where. You keep insisting "Paracel and Spratly Islands controlled by smaller and weaker sovereign neighbors" where there has been no determination of who owns what, therefore the description "disputed area" for those places.

Same thing with your back yard obsession. Of course it's not okay if it's my backyard, but it's a different story if 1) in case of Spartly Island where there is no clear definition who owns what. 2) I go and piss on your backyard first and you try to get back at me - as in case of India and Vietnam border disputed. Sh!t how much more do I have to explain myself.

For you map, go back to your wiki and read up on "Nine_dotted line" to see how China reached that claim, and how China never use that as an inviolable border to its sovereignty. All the incident you cited was a result of Spartly/Paracel Islands dispute and not the nine-dotted line claim. Oh and again why are we talking incidents as a result of disputed area? When some country have invaded and occupied Iraq/Afghan and killed far more people for reasons that for certain has nothing to do with maintaining sovereignty.

 

[Svnla]

Heh, this is going no where. You keep insisting "Paracel and Spratly Islands controlled by smaller and weaker sovereign neighbors" where there has been no determination of who owns what, therefore the description "disputed area" for those places.

Same thing with your back yard obsession. Of course it's not okay if it's my backyard, but it's a different story if 1) in case of Spartly Island where there is no clear definition who owns what. 2) I go and piss on your backyard first and you try to get back at me - as in case of India and Vietnam border disputed. Sh!t how much more do I have to explain myself.

For you map, go back to your wiki and read up on "Nine_dotted line" to see how China reached that claim, and how China never use that as an inviolable border to its sovereignty. All the incident you cited was a result of Spartly/Paracel Islands dispute and not the nine-dotted line claim. Oh and again why are we talking incidents as a result of disputed area? When some country have invaded and occupied Iraq/Afghan and killed far more people for reasons that for certain has nothing to do with maintaining sovereignty.

Wrong!!! China never has any control of Paracel and Spratly Islands until it invaded and took those areas from Vietnam and Phillipines (see my several links from my previous post above). Nice try to spin it as "dispute" to hide the facts. Feel free to provide well know neutral links and sources to say otherwise (that China indeed had control (not from some fake/make up maps or documents) of those areas before anyone else).

Since it is not ok to take your neighbor yards, then why it is ok for China to take over the EEZ areas from smaller neighbors (see the map) and harash them in international/their own EEZ water? Funny how you only mentioned Spratly and not Paracel. What is the matter?

Wrong again!!! China is using the map with that ridiculous line/tonge of cow/9 dots line to attack/capture/steal fishes/demand ransom money from poor and unarmed fishermen that have been fishing in the East Sea for hundreds of years. China is using that map/9 dots line to attack and cut survey cables from unarmed survey ships. China is using that map/9 dots line to demand other fishermen not to fish there anymore. Did you even bother to read any of my links in previous posts (with stories about China repeating agressive behavior)?

Edit: Lastest news = China attacked unarmed and poor fishermen : http://news.yahoo.com/vietnam-says-china-assaulted-fishermen-113157466.html

China claims nearly the entire South China Sea, while Vietnam and other Southeast Asian countries claim some areas.

Who the hell give them red commie China the right to claim almost the whole thing? Must be some kind of jungle law. Pathetic and laughable.

Still no name for a country that is behaving like China -claiming the whole sea as it own? Of course, no one is that stupid - unless they are being brainwashed.