Why is China engaging in zero tolerance covid restrictions?

[Muse]

It's virtually 3 years in. Why is covid such a thing in China now? Are their vaccines that bad? The story's huge today, it's a major story, massive protests, subjugation. The stock market took a big hit (1-1.5% drop in US major indexes).

Biden said a couple months ago or so (likely a misstep) that the pandemic was over. It's not over, but there aren't riots in America now (that I know of) about covid restrictions. The vaccines, masking and built up immunity from infection have things currently sort of under control in the US. In China it's nuts. What's really going on?

 

[WelshBloke]

Are their vaccines that bad?

Yes. The one they have was only about 70% effective against the earlier strains (so probably worse against the newer strains) but they can't admit that it's not that good and import decent western ones because that would look bad.
As they have relied on very harsh lockdowns their population has a really low immunity so if they reduce the lockdowns COVID will rip through their population possibly worse than it did at the beginning when we were all unprepared.

 

[esquared]

From I've read, China has 3.5-4 ICU beds per 100,000 people. The US has 30+ ICU beds per 100,000 people.
Remember how the US had periods where they had no more room in the hospitals during the pandemic?
Now imagine how China would cope having only 12-13% of the ICU beds that we have.

ICU Beds per Capita by Country 2024

 

[Jaskalas]

Now imagine how China would cope having only 12-13% of the ICU beds that we have.

That's worthy of spitting one's drink out upon hearing.

 

[KMFJD]

Lack of a good vaccine? they have an mrna vaccine that is still in the testing phase (Indonesia has approved it i think)

 

[Pens1566]

No working vaccine, nowhere near the medical capabilities of the west, much more concentrated population centers where spread would likely overwhelm.

In all honesty, we (the west) should hope they do all they can to contain spread. A huge wave in China would be super bad economically speaking.

 

[akugami]

I can't comment on the lack of ICU beds, as I haven't looked into any of that.

What I can say for sure is, back in the mothership, the natives are definitely not happy. This has been simmering for nearly a year.

People understood restrictions at first, but at this point, they just want to get on with their lives. There are so many restrictions and shutdowns that people can't earn a living. And when that happens, there's going to be protests.

 

[iRONic]

What happened to that/those emergency hospital-triage buildings they put up in like a week or two back when it first started?

 

[fskimospy]

I can't comment on the lack of ICU beds, as I haven't looked into any of that.

What I can say for sure is, back in the mothership, the natives are definitely not happy. This has been simmering for nearly a year.

People understood restrictions at first, but at this point, they just want to get on with their lives. There are so many restrictions and shutdowns that people can't earn a living. And when that happens, there's going to be protests.

People understood restrictions based on the idea that they were intended to limit cases until effective treatments/vaccines could be developed and distributed. China has been doing this for nearly three years now with no end in sight because they refuse to use the effective vaccines that are available.

I genuinely don't understand this as to me it seems insane - what is the end point? Is there some new, more effective Sinovax in development that will be ready soon?

 

[Commodus]

People understood restrictions based on the idea that they were intended to limit cases until effective treatments/vaccines could be developed and distributed. China has been doing this for nearly three years now with no end in sight because they refuse to use the effective vaccines that are available.

I genuinely don't understand this as to me it seems insane - what is the end point? Is there some new, more effective Sinovax in development that will be ready soon?

I don't think there is a known end point. China's government is notorious for maintaining absurd policies out of stubborn pride — see how it still claims that it owns Taiwan despite obvious evidence to the contrary. In the CCP's mindset, allowing foreign vaccines and ending "zero-COVID" policies would be an admission of weakness that undermines the party's iron grip.

Ironically, it's that pride that is fuelling protests and might do more damage to the Chinese regime than simply letting people get a Pfizer or Moderna jab and move on.

 

[K1052]

They need better vaccines (and to vaccinate way way more people), more ICU space, and should have stockpiled treatments in order to lift covid zero but they decided not to. They could have easily spent the last year plus getting ready. There is no apparent exit strategy from the current situation and the political leadership doesn't seem able to adjust.

 

[brycejones]

People understood restrictions based on the idea that they were intended to limit cases until effective treatments/vaccines could be developed and distributed. China has been doing this for nearly three years now with no end in sight because they refuse to use the effective vaccines that are available.

I genuinely don't understand this as to me it seems insane - what is the end point? Is there some new, more effective Sinovax in development that will be ready soon?

On some level I do think it's about making sure everyone understands who is in control.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't think there is a known end point. China's government is notorious for maintaining absurd policies out of stubborn pride — see how it still claims that it owns Taiwan despite obvious evidence to the contrary. In the CCP's mindset, allowing foreign vaccines and ending "zero-COVID" policies would be an admission of weakness that undermines the party's iron grip.

If so it sounds like that end point is revolution at some point. COVID is not going away and even if they eliminated it domestically (ha) there will always be new cases coming in from the rest of the world.

Ironically, it's that pride that is fuelling protests and might do more damage to the Chinese regime than simply letting people get a Pfizer or Moderna jab and move on.

Right? Like I really thought China would be better at this. You're an authoritarian state, one of the benefits is you're supposed to be able to coerce people into doing things like getting vaccinated!

That's the part that truly baffles me - the government is clearly willing to take extreme coercive steps to limit the spread of COVID but is unwilling or unable to take steps to vaccinate its population so all those other steps are kind of pointless.

 

[K1052]

I don't think there is a known end point. China's government is notorious for maintaining absurd policies out of stubborn pride — see how it still claims that it owns Taiwan despite obvious evidence to the contrary. In the CCP's mindset, allowing foreign vaccines and ending "zero-COVID" policies would be an admission of weakness that undermines the party's iron grip.

Ironically, it's that pride that is fuelling protests and might do more damage to the Chinese regime than simply letting people get a Pfizer or Moderna jab and move on.

I think we're getting another lesson on how dictatorships are inflexible and often lead to many easily avoidable problems which end up destabilizing the rule of said dictators.

 

[fskimospy]

I think we're getting another lesson on how dictatorships are inflexible and often lead to many easily avoidable problems which end up destabilizing the rule of said dictators.

I can't remember who said it but they were right that dictatorships have a wholly undeserved reputation for 'getting things done' when they are usually chaotic and massively inefficient. This is most likely because the things a dictator needs to stay in power are usually at best tangentially related to the overall function of society and in many cases are actively detrimental. Like, is it most important that the police chief prevents/solves the most crimes or is it most important that the police chief doesn't try to overthrow/kill you? I know which one I would choose.

 

[Commodus]

If so it sounds like that end point is revolution at some point. COVID is not going away and even if they eliminated it domestically (ha) there will always be new cases coming in from the rest of the world.

Maybe, but I wouldn't count on even the current wave of protests leading to much. China is pretty ruthless about squashing dissent. And while there are plenty of Chinese who would like a freer society, there's a longstanding emphasis on unity and stability that makes it difficult to rally people behind systemic changes.

 

[WelshBloke]

People understood restrictions based on the idea that they were intended to limit cases until effective treatments/vaccines could be developed and distributed. China has been doing this for nearly three years now with no end in sight because they refuse to use the effective vaccines that are available.

I genuinely don't understand this as to me it seems insane - what is the end point? Is there some new, more effective Sinovax in development that will be ready soon?

They have an mRNA vaccine in development. Whether it'll come out any time soon or even work is another question though.

 

[Greenman]

Isn't China's real estate market melting down as well? Or did they fix that?
I tend not to spend any time looking at the Chinese political/economic situation because it's tough to separate fact from fiction.

 

[Sunburn74]

People understood restrictions based on the idea that they were intended to limit cases until effective treatments/vaccines could be developed and distributed. China has been doing this for nearly three years now with no end in sight because they refuse to use the effective vaccines that are available.

Why would they do that? It seems like a crazy thing to do, particularly in this age of globalization

 

[fskimospy]

Isn't China's real estate market melting down as well? Or did they fix that?
I tend not to spend any time looking at the Chinese political/economic situation because it's tough to separate fact from fiction.

Yes, another downside to dictatorships is there’s a big incentive for everyone to lie.

As I’ve mentioned before I’ve been saying China’s real estate market is a speculative bubble for at least the last ten years. As I’ve also mentioned though clearly I don’t know the timing of the crash so I would have gone broke shorting it but I still think a crash is coming.

 

[fskimospy]

Maybe, but I wouldn't count on even the current wave of protests leading to much. China is pretty ruthless about squashing dissent. And while there are plenty of Chinese who would like a freer society, there's a longstanding emphasis on unity and stability that makes it difficult to rally people behind systemic changes.

I have no idea if these protests will go anywhere but if this keeps happening I think protests will continue to expand.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Why would they do that? It seems like a crazy thing to do, particularly in this age of globalization

The consequences of implying by omission all these people are dying after taking Pfizer or Moderna. China brings in the vaccines then forces everyone to get vaxed and it is "Oh, so you want us to die TOO?!"... => Immediate revolt scenario, so the big wigs aren't going to ever do this.

Basically, China is stuck waiting for their own vaccines because of the huge L the propagandists keep shooting out.

 

[Muse]

Yes, another downside to dictatorships is there’s a big incentive for everyone to lie.

As I’ve mentioned before I’ve been saying China’s real estate market is a speculative bubble for at least the last ten years. As I’ve also mentioned though clearly I don’t know the timing of the crash so I would have gone broke shorting it but I still think a crash is coming.

It's dangerous to tell the truth in dictatorships, so lying becomes the norm.

“The life of the nation is secure only while the nation is honest, truthful and virtuous.” -Frederick Douglass

 

[sdifox]

Cuz Xi Jingping is the emperor and peasants dying is not his problem.

 

[IGBT]

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Daveybrat
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