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Why is buying video for iPod easier than buying video for a PC?

UNCjigga

Lifer
This bugs me. Nevermind the fact that PCs can play DVDs and that we all have infinite access to torrents etc. It irks me that the first platform to support legal, DRM-encrypted H.264 content is iTunes + iPod and not the Media Center PC.

Does Microsoft just suck when it comes to doing business with content producers and distributors? They had one small success 2 years ago when Terminator 2 was released in WMV HD--but that was on a physical medium and they had no clue what to do with online distribution of video. Couldn't MS learn from their loss to iTunes? Wouldn't this have made Media Center more successful as a media platform? Or would that have been seen as 'ahead of its time'?

Did Apple then succeed due to market timing of the video iPod? I don't think so. I really think that the execs at media companies think iPod is the status quo and that there's no point in supporting a platform unless its tied to the Apple brand, and its all because of Microsoft's failures. Seriously, how does it make sense that the first viable medium for commercial online video distribution is tied to a 2.5" screen and low-res 320x480 video? Shouldn't we at least have access to a video library as large as iTunes all encoded in WMV at 720x480? A portable video player leapfrogged the home theater PC concept? It just goes to show how bad MS fvcked this one up!!!

Can't blame the media format--WMV is great for high-res video and Apple's Fairplay Quicktime variant of H.264 is just as proprietary. You can argue that H.264 is 'more advanced' than H.263-based codecs like DivX/XviD and WMV, but the difference is negligible for average users. Windows could have had far greater reach than iPod or iTunes--in all fairness MS should have killed Windows XP Home and replaced it with Media Center Edition when it first came out. Their reluctance to do that killed Media Center as a platform, and I think they're about to make the same mistake with Vista. Microsoft also should have provided more support for WMV acceleration in hardware--making that a component of DirectX 9 for example. And Xbox 360 should have had DVR or video content downloads standard, but MS fvcked that one up when the hard drive was no longer standard.

Basically, I think Microsoft and Intel better start learning from their mistakes and Apple's successes if they want to be a player in distributing video content for PCs and next-gen 'media devices'. They need to lock up agreements with MSOs (cable operators), IPTV providers like Verizon and SBC, and Tivo--and make sure Viiv PCs come standard with CableCARD 2.0 or OpenCable whenever they're finalized. They need to make sure that user-to-user video sharing is also enabled with DRM. That'll give them enough content until they can figure out a direct download solution similar to iTunes (or maybe a business model supported by the cable/telecom industry is better? Can't call that one yet.)

End of rant.
 
Originally posted by: austin316
stop worrying about having the absolute highest possible quality and just enjoy what is out there.
I think the point he's making is a valid one - Apple is doing something Microsoft should have at least tried, you know?
 
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Originally posted by: austin316
stop worrying about having the absolute highest possible quality and just enjoy what is out there.
I think the point he's making is a valid one - Apple is doing something Microsoft should have at least tried, you know?
Not only that, but somehow Apple was able to convince people that watching video on a tiny 2.5" screen with barely 2 hours battery life is better than watching high-def video on a 42" widescreen hooked up to a PC. Like, did MS not have a brainstorm when Netflix got so popular...like "hey, if people are willing to shun Blockbuster and wait 3 days for movies, why not let them download a video in 24 hours?"

 
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Originally posted by: austin316
stop worrying about having the absolute highest possible quality and just enjoy what is out there.
I think the point he's making is a valid one - Apple is doing something Microsoft should have at least tried, you know?

I agree, MS could have done this but they just keep letting Apple walk all over them. Honestly I thought it was going to be longer before I could purchase TV shows to watch on my PC. I thought the TV compaines would not embrace as fast as the music industry did, I was wrong.
 
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Originally posted by: austin316
stop worrying about having the absolute highest possible quality and just enjoy what is out there.
I think the point he's making is a valid one - Apple is doing something Microsoft should have at least tried, you know?
Not only that, but somehow Apple was able to convince people that watching video on a tiny 2.5" screen with barely 2 hours battery life is better than watching high-def video on a 42" widescreen hooked up to a PC. Like, did MS not have a brainstorm when Netflix got so popular...like "hey, if people are willing to shun Blockbuster and wait 3 days for movies, why not let them download a video in 24 hours?"


I don't think anyone thinks its "better" then watching it on TV, but there is simply no good way to purchase video/tv online and watch it on your 42" widescreen.

I think another problem here is user base, I dont know a single person who owns a MediaCenter box. I know a few who have built there own PVR/Media center. I know probably 15 who have iPods. Apple can goto the compaines and say:

"We have sold XXXXXXXXx iPods. On average we find that XXXXX people switch the the latest version when released, and plus the battery dies every 3-5 years and we find those people buy the latest iPod as well, so we forcast we will sell XXXXXXXX number of video pods, and XX% of those we think will purchase from the TV store."

iPod is a household word/item. A MediaCenter PC is not a household item. What can MS tell compaines? "We have sold 10 copies of media center, but it cool cause people can still buy the shows and watch them on any PC with Windows Media Player!"

That simply does not impress as much as the iPod. The iPod can take the shows anywhere. The iPod is a proven business model.
 
Originally posted by: tRaptor
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Originally posted by: austin316
stop worrying about having the absolute highest possible quality and just enjoy what is out there.
I think the point he's making is a valid one - Apple is doing something Microsoft should have at least tried, you know?
Not only that, but somehow Apple was able to convince people that watching video on a tiny 2.5" screen with barely 2 hours battery life is better than watching high-def video on a 42" widescreen hooked up to a PC. Like, did MS not have a brainstorm when Netflix got so popular...like "hey, if people are willing to shun Blockbuster and wait 3 days for movies, why not let them download a video in 24 hours?"


I don't think anyone thinks its "better" then watching it on TV, but there is simply no good way to purchase video/tv online and watch it on your 42" widescreen.

I think another problem here is user base, I dont know a single person who owns a MediaCenter box. I know a few who have built there own PVR/Media center. I know probably 15 who have iPods. Apple can goto the compaines and say:

"We have sold XXXXXXXXx iPods. On average we find that XXXXX people switch the the latest version when released, and plus the battery dies every 3-5 years and we find those people buy the latest iPod as well, so we forcast we will sell XXXXXXXX number of video pods, and XX% of those we think will purchase from the TV store."

iPod is a household word/item. A MediaCenter PC is not a household item. What can MS tell compaines? "We have sold 10 copies of media center, but it cool people can still buy the shows and watch them on any PC with Windows Media Player!"

That simply does not impress as much as the iPod. The iPod can take the shows anywhere. The iPod is a proven business model.
But that's why I'm saying MS should have AXED Windows Home and replaced it with Media Center edition.

When Average Joe buys a PC, he doesn't immediately think to hook it up to his TV and use it as a media platform. In fact, HDTV sales still haven't peaked yet. But MS build the Media Center Extender, a small device that easily hooks up to a TV and will let you keep your PC in the study/home office/bedroom and watch stuff off it in the living room. Hell, they even made Xbox 360 a Media Center Extender, and sell a kit to turn regular Xbox into one. But who'd buy one unless they already had Windows Media Center?

Now I'll venture that the vast majority of computers sold to consumers ship with Windows XP Home. Now imagine if every PC sold to consumers between 2003 and 2006 had Windows Media Center instead of XP Home? How's that for an installed base? Sure, not everyone would hook it up to a TV, but given that a Media Center Extender is roughly the same price as a video iPod you bet MS would sell a bunch of them and they'd be able to sign content owners up too.

 
Originally posted by: OdiN
iTunes sucks.
Tell that to ABC/Disney, CBS Showtime, NBC Universal, and people listening to the nearly 1 billion iTunes songs or watching the >12 million iTunes videos downloaded.

 
because jobs got his foot in the door with pixar/disney. you notice the first content itunes had was abc stuff which is conviently part of disney.
 
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Originally posted by: tRaptor
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Originally posted by: austin316
stop worrying about having the absolute highest possible quality and just enjoy what is out there.
I think the point he's making is a valid one - Apple is doing something Microsoft should have at least tried, you know?
Not only that, but somehow Apple was able to convince people that watching video on a tiny 2.5" screen with barely 2 hours battery life is better than watching high-def video on a 42" widescreen hooked up to a PC. Like, did MS not have a brainstorm when Netflix got so popular...like "hey, if people are willing to shun Blockbuster and wait 3 days for movies, why not let them download a video in 24 hours?"


I don't think anyone thinks its "better" then watching it on TV, but there is simply no good way to purchase video/tv online and watch it on your 42" widescreen.

I think another problem here is user base, I dont know a single person who owns a MediaCenter box. I know a few who have built there own PVR/Media center. I know probably 15 who have iPods. Apple can goto the compaines and say:

"We have sold XXXXXXXXx iPods. On average we find that XXXXX people switch the the latest version when released, and plus the battery dies every 3-5 years and we find those people buy the latest iPod as well, so we forcast we will sell XXXXXXXX number of video pods, and XX% of those we think will purchase from the TV store."

iPod is a household word/item. A MediaCenter PC is not a household item. What can MS tell compaines? "We have sold 10 copies of media center, but it cool people can still buy the shows and watch them on any PC with Windows Media Player!"

That simply does not impress as much as the iPod. The iPod can take the shows anywhere. The iPod is a proven business model.
But that's why I'm saying MS should have AXED Windows Home and replaced it with Media Center edition.

When Average Joe buys a PC, he doesn't immediately think to hook it up to his TV and use it as a media platform. In fact, HDTV sales still haven't peaked yet. But MS build the Media Center Extender, a small device that easily hooks up to a TV and will let you keep your PC in the study/home office/bedroom and watch stuff off it in the living room. Hell, they even made Xbox 360 a Media Center Extender, and sell a kit to turn regular Xbox into one. But who'd buy one unless they already had Windows Media Center?

Now I'll venture that the vast majority of computers sold to consumers ship with Windows XP Home. Now imagine if every PC sold to consumers between 2003 and 2006 had Windows Media Center instead of XP Home? How's that for an installed base? Sure, not everyone would hook it up to a TV, but given that a Media Center Extender is roughly the same price as a video iPod you bet MS would sell a bunch of them and they'd be able to sign content owners up too.

I understand your point, and I think its a good point, I just dont see many people using the Media Center Extender. Now I can see how it could take off using th xbox/360. That would be a great usr base, and a young enough one to give it a shot, show their parents how cool it is. But I think Tivo is blocking this, why pay for cable, pay for a PC/Media extender and then have to pay for the shows when you could just Tivo them?

On the other hand the iPod lets you take them where ever you want, so Apple has essentially value added: Portability AND the ability to watch/buy at any time. MS only can only add the ability to buy/watch anytime, I just don t think thats enough to justify paying to watch the show "again"
 
Originally posted by: arod
because jobs got his foot in the door with pixar/disney. you notice the first content itunes had was abc stuff which is conviently part of disney.

MS does not have the hookups! Heheh, what about MSNBC?
 
Originally posted by: tRaptor
Originally posted by: arod
because jobs got his foot in the door with pixar/disney. you notice the first content itunes had was abc stuff which is conviently part of disney.

MS does not have the hookups! Heheh, what about MSNBC?


do you really want to see the news on media center? and really its already there in the "online spotlight" section of media center anyways.
 
Originally posted by: tRaptor
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Originally posted by: tRaptor
Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Originally posted by: austin316
stop worrying about having the absolute highest possible quality and just enjoy what is out there.
I think the point he's making is a valid one - Apple is doing something Microsoft should have at least tried, you know?
Not only that, but somehow Apple was able to convince people that watching video on a tiny 2.5" screen with barely 2 hours battery life is better than watching high-def video on a 42" widescreen hooked up to a PC. Like, did MS not have a brainstorm when Netflix got so popular...like "hey, if people are willing to shun Blockbuster and wait 3 days for movies, why not let them download a video in 24 hours?"


I don't think anyone thinks its "better" then watching it on TV, but there is simply no good way to purchase video/tv online and watch it on your 42" widescreen.

I think another problem here is user base, I dont know a single person who owns a MediaCenter box. I know a few who have built there own PVR/Media center. I know probably 15 who have iPods. Apple can goto the compaines and say:

"We have sold XXXXXXXXx iPods. On average we find that XXXXX people switch the the latest version when released, and plus the battery dies every 3-5 years and we find those people buy the latest iPod as well, so we forcast we will sell XXXXXXXX number of video pods, and XX% of those we think will purchase from the TV store."

iPod is a household word/item. A MediaCenter PC is not a household item. What can MS tell compaines? "We have sold 10 copies of media center, but it cool people can still buy the shows and watch them on any PC with Windows Media Player!"

That simply does not impress as much as the iPod. The iPod can take the shows anywhere. The iPod is a proven business model.
But that's why I'm saying MS should have AXED Windows Home and replaced it with Media Center edition.

When Average Joe buys a PC, he doesn't immediately think to hook it up to his TV and use it as a media platform. In fact, HDTV sales still haven't peaked yet. But MS build the Media Center Extender, a small device that easily hooks up to a TV and will let you keep your PC in the study/home office/bedroom and watch stuff off it in the living room. Hell, they even made Xbox 360 a Media Center Extender, and sell a kit to turn regular Xbox into one. But who'd buy one unless they already had Windows Media Center?

Now I'll venture that the vast majority of computers sold to consumers ship with Windows XP Home. Now imagine if every PC sold to consumers between 2003 and 2006 had Windows Media Center instead of XP Home? How's that for an installed base? Sure, not everyone would hook it up to a TV, but given that a Media Center Extender is roughly the same price as a video iPod you bet MS would sell a bunch of them and they'd be able to sign content owners up too.

I understand your point, and I think its a good point, I just dont see many people using the Media Center Extender. Now I can see how it could take off using th xbox/360. That would be a great usr base, and a young enough one to give it a shot, show their parents how cool it is. But I think Tivo is blocking this, why pay for cable, pay for a PC/Media extender and then have to pay for the shows when you could just Tivo them?

On the other hand the iPod lets you take them where ever you want, so Apple has essentially value added: Portability AND the ability to watch/buy at any time. MS only can only add the ability to buy/watch anytime, I just don t think thats enough to justify paying to watch the show "again"

Media Center with vista will have directv and cable card support. I know Im moving my hd-dvr to my media pc (right now it only records my sd content). But as soon as cable card comes out I will move my dvr to media center vista.

And there are portable media center players out there now (and LG has a really sweet one coming). With the portable media center device you can have all your music, videos and recorded tv on the device (vs just ripped videos and mp3 for ipod)
 
Originally posted by: tRaptor
But I think Tivo is blocking this, why pay for cable, pay for a PC/Media extender and then have to pay for the shows when you could just Tivo them?
That's why being first with CableCARD is so important, and why Anand has been hyping ATI's OCUR device. I think for Viiv to succeed they can't just build a content portal like iTunes; instead they'll have to partner with existing MSOs and upcoming IPTV networks from SBC and Verizon. What they should be aiming for is Viiv replacing your traditional set-top box. This way it will become the gateway to all your broadcast content (with intelligent program guide etc.) and also function as a DVR.

But then Viiv can go beyond Tivo by allowing you to copy programs to another computer (say a laptop authorized via DRM), share with a friend over the Internet (limited to one play per friend; more will require the friend to purchase it), or access it via broadband from any Internet connected PC (similar to locationfree TV, slingbox etc.)

The MSOs and IPTV operators can also take Video on Demand to the next level with CableCARD 2.0--offering movies based on personal preferences like a Netflix, allowing you to store content from HBO on Demand to hard drive, and even offering interactive gaming.

That's they way it SHOULD be done IMHO, but my guess is that MS/Intel will stumble again and the next Mac mini will dominate.



 
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Originally posted by: OdiN
iTunes sucks.
Yeah, i hate the way they have a store so nicely integrated into it. Man, that does suck.
Yes, it does. Separate tools piping > integration.
Oh, crap...that's got to be the worst unintentional joke I have ever made.

But iTMS is still crap. HDD crash? Pay again to redownload. Upgrade? Pay again to redownload.
 
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