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Why is America still a super power?

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Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
3,945
0
71
I find it funny that people call people who speak out "part of the problem".... Speaking out on this is the first step to admitting the country has a problem. Just like drinking heh, the first step is admit you have a problem. But oh no, not here, because admitting there is a problem actually makes it worse!

Has anyone even seen inner city schools? They are disgusting!
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,247
2
0
A funny thing I notice about the difference of empire is that most empires died from trying to manage too many territories/people. The US on the other hand manages the financial situation of these people, this seems like it would be easier to fix/control than direct population control.
 

babylon5

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2000
1,365
1
0
Why are you so negative? Don't worry, be happy! Don't you understand America is #1, always and forever?! America is superior to all other countries in the world. We will continue to rule the earth until the sun goes supernova.

Deal with it, commies!!
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,560
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Originally posted by: Coldkilla
-We're the fattest nation
Because our diet is completely borked. Government got involved and told us 40% of our food should be coming from grains and pastas. Yet, these are the foods that are converted to glucose the fastest (and thus cause the highest and quickest insulin spikes, which cause our liver to go into overtime converting the glucose into fat, because the high glucose levels that these foods create in our bodies are toxic). It is no wonder that we are fat.
-We're the dumbest nation
Mmmmm.......we still attract all the smart people of the world for business.
-We don't produce anything, you hardly see "Made in USA" anymore..
I don't know enough about this to make a comment; about what we produce and what we don't, and the long term effects of the large trade deficit, and if it will equalize. Seeing how well everything else works, I'm skeptical of saying that this won't, so I'll just say I haven't found the answer yet, and that I haven't researched it much (this specifically) either.
-We work harder for less
Mmm, maybe, but the benefit of letting the market control it (and keeping the government out...even though that rarely happens) ensures that the majority of us have a job most of the time.
-We outsource all of the well paying jobs to other countries
Rather, we outsource the simple jobs that do not require an education, to other countries. This is good because it frees up our economy to produce more design-intense items. Your argument is quite similar to the argument automotive workers made when the big 3 started replacing jobs with machines. As usual, life is unfair sometimes, but go back and get an education in something that the market will hire you for. If we legislate that we can't outsource jobs, then we'll be legislating ourselves into non-competition with the rest of the world, because someone else will produce what we produce, but will do it for much less, and they will sell it over here, and those people will lose their jobs anyways. If you want to place tariffs to take care of this then that's another discussions, but it'll basically lead to a stagnant economy.
-We have a horrible health care system (Being ripped off severely for nearly all medications)
If there weren't rewards for pharmaceuticals, they wouldn't sink the money to employ all the biochemist PHDs to research for and create these drugs. Further, our healthcare system is remarkably efficient. Try getting care in a nation where it's all paid for. Need to go to the dentist for a cavity? In Scotland you'll wait 6 months before you can get it. But, cavities can't wait that long. So you have to make your own plans, with your own money, in addition to the money you pay in taxes. In Bulgaria you have to pay extra, under the table, for the operations...and also bribe the doctors at least $10K or you...might not wake up. All because the government got involved in providing healthcare and legislating how much doctors get to officially make. The market will demand what it costs to be a doctor. If they don't get it, then you won't get the care.
-We're one of the most major polluters, and complain about every cent increase while gas in other countries exceeds 7 dollars a gallon.
Because they have ridiculous taxes on the fuel. It's also important to realize there are no subdivisions in Europe, every community is built to be self sufficient-- because those cities were built when we did not have cars. Hence supermarkets are always within walking distance. In Europe you have the choice to not own a car. Most cities in America don't have a public transportation system that is good enough for you to not have to own a car. In America, cars are a necessity for life 90% of the time. So is driving at least 20 miles a day to get to and from work, because our cities were built without thought of expensive transportation. So while the Europeans pay $7/gallon, they only have to drive one mile. We pay $4.00 a gallon and have to drive 3 miles. Hence we're paying more than they are for gas.

As for pollution, our worst cities are still 10 times better than China's worst cities. At least we build nuclear plants. They just erect more coal plants, WITHOUT electrostatic precipitators (scrubbers). In some cities in China, the sky is never blue, it is brown, always brown. But hey, lets just legislate ourselves into non-competition and not deal with the biggest source of pollution, China's coal plants. Let's put a Carbon tax on all energy. Such a thing would increase the base operating cost of running a business and living, across the board, and hurt our economy; and provide very little benefit.

Now, if you want to talk about keeping things like mercury out of the environment, that's cool, because there is no obvious economic incentive to not release mercury, and there is a clear and defined consequence (no fuzzy global warming theories), aka women not being able to eat non-freshwater fish (salmon from salmon farms are ok of course) while they are pregnant, because of the effect on the baby.

But, gosh darnit, be careful when you get the government involved. Have you heard about the CFL's by 2012? The government mandated that everyone be using CFLs instead of incandescents by 2012, to conserve energy. What do you think people are going to do with these? There is no nationalized recycling plan. They're just going to toss those into the trash, where they are going to break, and release the 2-3 mm-sized beads of mercury into the environment. Would have been better to just let them burn the extra energy with the incandescents, because at least the scrubbers capture most of the mercury released when we burn coal.
-Our dollar is in the trash
Yeah...but it's bringing some business to America like crazy. Europeans are flying to New York to buy their clothes because it's cheaper here, including the round trip ticket, than buying there. It's also making all of our products much more attractive. For example Boeing vs. Airbus. Both are priced in dollars, but one is produced mostly in America, the other mostly in EU countries. Guess which one is doing better? Overall you may be right though; I think there would be a greater benefit to a stronger dollar. Never was a fan of spending when you don't have the money.
-Our public education system is broken (college costs, etc)
Thanks largely in part to handouts like Pell Grants. Pell grants upset the market for tuition (leading to increased tuition costs) and depress the wages of workers, because they increase the number students that are able to attend university. Remove Pell grants, and suddenly tuition costs several thousand dollars more. Fewer students attend university. Universities have to fire some professors and hire actual TEACHERS, not researchers, until they can make tuition affordable enough again to bring the equilibrium 10k students that their school can handle. Ever wonder why hardly any companies employ PhD's? Because their market value has been inflated by educational institutions. We need fewer PhDs, and the best way to do that is to remove one of the methods that enables Universities to over-pay them, to remove the free money, the Pell grants. Pell grants are a blind "investment" with no intelligent decision required. If your Expected Family Contribution is less than a certain % of your total tuition cost, your get a Pell Grant. Worst idea ever, because the Pell grants, if the desire is to decrease the out of pocket expense to students attending university, have to keep increasing to stay ahead of the rising tuition costs.

If the market needs more workers, then wages will increase across the board until the incentive to take on the loans and enter the market reaches the cost of taking on the loans. Instead Pell grants saturate the market with employees that are not needed, thus depressing the wage each employee can demand.
-Our nations "word" means nothing internationally
I'm not very concerned with the rest of the world because they whine if we don't try to fix things, and if we do, they whine some more. South Korea whines because we have troops in their country. They'd whine if we left too, because North Korea, with the help (arms probably) of their allies China, would waltz down into SK and there would be mass bloodshed. North Korea is frickin crazy.
You know what the government there tells people when the UN drops food and supplies? That it is because we, the rest of the world, are so in awe of their progressive society and government and how wonderfully things are run there, that we send tribute in hopes that they will like us. And the people believe it, because they have nothing else to believe. So who cares if SK doesn't like our presence, having American troops that can go kick NK into submission, should they try anything, is one of the few things keeping them from getting aggressive.
-We call Bush an idiot now, but who put him in power?
I agree, people are too short sighted.
-Loans from credit cards are insane, I read over a half TRILLION dollars, we buy things we cannot simply afford.
I fail to see this as a problem. Stupid people will be stupid, there's nothing you can do to stop that. Nor is there anything we should do to insulate them from being stupid. Right? If you're buying things you can't afford, you're not being wise. This is not the fault of the credit institutions, but of the people that are living outside their means. I know the mortgage companies can be tricksy, but honestly, all it takes is a couple saturday afternoons reading about finances on the internet, and someone can calculate for themselves, and decide for themselves, whether or not they should be taking on this $200k loan when they are only making $20k/year. Yet Democrats would have us believe it is someone else's fault, that it's too much work for the person looking at taking out a $200k loan to research for themselves, think for themselves about the truth of the situation. If people would just do this, we wouldn't have a housing bubble, we wouldn't have people buying houses on speculation, on AMRs when they know they aren't going to be able to refi with a standard loan that is affordable. But the Democrats say it's someone else's fault, never the loanee's fault for not being educated.

Democrats are almost always insular, never introspective. They never ask "could it be that my actions are bringing this pain on me?" They always exclaim that it's someone else's fault. This obvious character flaw is why I don't take their arguments for much weight, because their fundamental reasoning capabilities are so obviously flawed. It's also why I'm hesitant to vote for Obama, not because I think Obama thinks like this or is this way, but because so many people who do, are going to vote for him. Makes me afraid I'm missing something about him.
-We call ourselves "the greatest place on earth", arrogant then too.
And we still have the best economy, even with how it is doing now (which isn't that bad). You should go see other countries. America is nothing compared to many African countries engaged in, more or less, eternal war, with eachother. Not saying America doesn't have problems, and that the problems aren't serious, because many of them are, but they're nothing in comparison to what they COULD be.
-We put money in the hands of other countries before our own (paying billions in aid packages and other fundings because we're "rich" and can spread the "wealth")
Sure, this one doesn't make sense to me either.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Coldkilla


(These are against other modernized industrial nations)
-We're the fattest nation
Probably, but the rest of the world is catching up. Cheap food and lack of manual labor is taking its toll on everyone in the modern world.

-We're the dumbest nation
We have the post college system in the world and we are able to attract the best and brightest from all over the world. We are not that dumb.
-We don't produce anything, you hardly see "Made in USA" anymore..
We produce alot, but we import alot as well because we are wealthy enough to do so. There was a recent article about there not being enough container ships to carry our current exports. Not bad for a country that does not produce anything.
-We work harder for less/our dollar is in the trash
For a sane point of reference, our dollar is worth about the same as it was in mid 90s when compared to other currencies. The world is not coming to end.
-We outsource all of the well paying jobs to other countries
Some jobs get outsoured, other jobs get insourced. It all balances out for the most part.
-We have a horrible health care system (Being ripped off severely for nearly all medications). If you seen how much the Bill Clinton fund has raised, its staggering how he lowered the cost of medications in Africa.
Yes our health care system needs reform. But it needs less goverment intervention not more. Just remember those cheap meds in other countries made big phara head to the US to do all their research and development.
-We're one of the most major polluters, and complain about every cent increase while gas in other countries exceeds 7 dollars a gallon.
We are a major polluter, but we are also a major producer as well. For the las several decades industry has become much cleaner and that will continue for the next many decades. China on the other hand....
As far as gas go, gas is more expense elsewhere because of taxes.
-Our public education system is broken (inner city schools, college loan interest/debt, etc)
Public schools are broken. Give voucher to those that want them, so people can get out of broken schools. College loans are great deal, one of the best investments you can mkae in yourself.
-We buy things we simply cannot afford. (Half Trillion dollars already in debt as a whole)
Do we over consume? Probably,but it is not going to kill us.
[/quote]

 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,661
755
126
ANYONE can become a multi millionaire.

Strongest most advanced military on the planet.

Virtually unlimited money (public AND private).

Freedom to tell your government to fuck off with no repercussions.

The poorest can still have a microwave and a big screen TV.



Combine all those together and there isnt another country on the planet that comes close.
 

Foxery

Golden Member
Jan 24, 2008
1,709
0
0
It's a label based on the country's military and economic power on a large scale. Faults with citizens as individuals being fat or stupid has nothing to do with it. There are still enough smart and successful folks keeping things moving forward.

We might be an empire in decline, (it is a surprisingly good analogy,) but we're still an empire.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Foxery
It's a label based on the country's military and economic power on a large scale. Faults with citizens as individuals being fat or stupid has nothing to do with it. There are still enough smart and successful folks keeping things moving forward.

We might be an empire in decline, (it is a surprisingly good analogy,) but we're still an empire.
Actually we are not and have never been an empire. maybe when we start demanding tribute from occupied areas, but until then.
 

Superrock

Senior member
Oct 28, 2000
467
1
0
You forgot:

We have the highest % of our population in jail in the world.
We have the highest amount of teen pregnancy among industrialized nations.
We have the highest % of STDs among the industrialized nations.

I'm pretty sure all three of those are related. We need to reinforce family values at a level that's accessible to everybody. Abstinance programs aren't working.


 

Buck Armstrong

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,016
0
0
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Are We Rome?
There are actually a few close parallels between the USA's current situation and the decline of the Roman Empire, but since they are "politically incorrect", they aren't discussed in that context very often.

 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,850
0
0
You know what, I'd rather live in a country where citizen have the intelligence to look at themselves and find things to improve on. I have been to some shitty third world country where people always trying to talk up their own countries and not admit or face their own problems.

To me self critic/awareness is what make this country great, it will only help improve this country, unless bunch of people who lack self confidence and don't wanna hear anything but praise about themselves or the country, ruin it for the rest of us.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,072
1
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Foxery
It's a label based on the country's military and economic power on a large scale. Faults with citizens as individuals being fat or stupid has nothing to do with it. There are still enough smart and successful folks keeping things moving forward.

We might be an empire in decline, (it is a surprisingly good analogy,) but we're still an empire.
Actually we are not and have never been an empire. maybe when we start demanding tribute from occupied areas, but until then.
Philippines?
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
0
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Hmm, this is really hard, lets see:

-largest economy
-largest military

What the heck else is there that matters? I mean you list all these things which are bad, but no other country is better is all those areas, maybe they beat us in a few any we beat them in a few. I deffinitely think we have a good balance of hard working people and good quality of life. I mean in some European countires the AVERAGE quality of life may be better but the taxes and welfare programs don't provide as much incentive to work hard. Meanwhile in some other countires, like say China, there is a very large incentive to work hard, but the average persons quality of life is sucky.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,072
1
0
Originally posted by: charrison
-We have a horrible health care system (Being ripped off severely for nearly all medications). If you seen how much the Bill Clinton fund has raised, its staggering how he lowered the cost of medications in Africa.
Yes our health care system needs reform. But it needs less goverment intervention not more. Just remember those cheap meds in other countries made big phara head to the US to do all their research and development.
I agree in principle at least with all your points except this one, i don't think that a strictly for-profit medical system has the proper incentives to either minimize costs or effectively solve problems; pharmas don't make money off healthy people. Instead of searching for an effective cure for malaria for instance, they search for 'cures' for limp dick old people and restless legs. furthermore, they also spend as much (or more) on advertising than they do on R&D to convince us that we need these joke medicines.

The medical industry certainly needs some reform, but i don't believe that market enterprise on its own can deliver anything superior to the current system,
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
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Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Foxery
It's a label based on the country's military and economic power on a large scale. Faults with citizens as individuals being fat or stupid has nothing to do with it. There are still enough smart and successful folks keeping things moving forward.

We might be an empire in decline, (it is a surprisingly good analogy,) but we're still an empire.
Actually we are not and have never been an empire. maybe when we start demanding tribute from occupied areas, but until then.
Philippines?
What does charrison think it is when we get resources cheaply from nations coercively, when other nations' people labor for our benefit cheaply because of pressure we can exert?

Funny enough, what's happening with China today is not colonialism, it's 'consensual', other than the coercion of poverty on the Chinese workers to accept the work at low wages. But in many cases, it's another story; for example, when Allende was elected to lead Chile, he was going to do some things that were not what American corporations wanted, and those corporations pressured a like-minded Nixon to do something to stop him taking power. Putting Pinochet in charge was for the benefit of US corporations - a form of colonialism.

It wasn't US troops occupying Chile but rather US-supported forces under our hand-picked dictator; they didn't send us 'tribute' but they did give our corporations 'friendly' deals.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,560
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frickin somebody read my post on the previous page and flame me for it so at least I'll feel like all that time went to good use
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,699
424
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A lot of technology and research comes from the US. While not exactly a tangible product, it has a huge sway in the world.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,072
1
0
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
frickin somebody read my post on the previous page and flame me for it so at least I'll feel like all that time went to good use
it was a lot of speculative, hypothetical garbage and not really based on reality, and probably made everyone in this thread dumber.




better now? :)
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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Originally posted by: miketheidiot


I agree in principle at least with all your points except this one, i don't think that a strictly for-profit medical system has the proper incentives to either minimize costs or effectively solve problems; pharmas don't make money off healthy people. Instead of searching for an effective cure for malaria for instance, they search for 'cures' for limp dick old people and restless legs. furthermore, they also spend as much (or more) on advertising than they do on R&D to convince us that we need these joke medicines.

The medical industry certainly needs some reform, but i don't believe that market enterprise on its own can deliver anything superior to the current system,
I will agree the free market is not cure all, but it can fix many problems. The way we have our health insurance setup is insane. It completely masks the costs of services from the consumer and this just drives up the cost of everything, since "someone else" is paying. Next time you go see a doctor, ask what a office visit costs if you pay cash and then ask what he bills the insurance company. They wont be same and cash price will be cheaper.

As far as pharma goes, you are correct that high volume health problems are going to be treated first. They may spend too much on advertising, but the more people they can get to take their meds, they cheaper they get. We do need to make sure that drug patents are protected so new drugs get developed, but we also need to make sure that patents dont get overextended just to keep generics off the market. $4 walmart generics are good thing.

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Foxery
It's a label based on the country's military and economic power on a large scale. Faults with citizens as individuals being fat or stupid has nothing to do with it. There are still enough smart and successful folks keeping things moving forward.

We might be an empire in decline, (it is a surprisingly good analogy,) but we're still an empire.
Actually we are not and have never been an empire. maybe when we start demanding tribute from occupied areas, but until then.
Philippines?
What does charrison think it is when we get resources cheaply from nations coercively, when other nations' people labor for our benefit cheaply because of pressure we can exert?
I think that trade benefits all countries that are involved. You may see their low wages as slave labor, but more often than not it is great improvement to what these people were previously doing.


 

Duwelon

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,070
0
0
Originally posted by: Coldkilla
Honestly... I'm an American and all I hear these days is that we're the last at everything, and the worst at everything. Granted most American's are kind hearted and it seems as if the corporate fat cats make the country look bad, but is that really the cause?


(These are against other modernized industrial nations)
-We're the fattest nation
-We're the dumbest nation
-We don't produce anything, you hardly see "Made in USA" anymore..
-We work harder for less/our dollar is in the trash
-We outsource all of the well paying jobs to other countries
-We have a horrible health care system (Being ripped off severely for nearly all medications). If you seen how much the Bill Clinton fund has raised, its staggering how he lowered the cost of medications in Africa.
-We're one of the most major polluters, and complain about every cent increase while gas in other countries exceeds 7 dollars a gallon.
-Our public education system is broken (inner city schools, college loan interest/debt, etc)
-We buy things we simply cannot afford. (Half Trillion dollars already in debt as a whole)

Rant continuing:
-We call Bush an idiot now, but who put him in power?
-We call ourselves "the greatest place on earth", arrogant then too.
-Our nations "word" means nothing internationally
-We put money in the hands of other countries before our own (paying billions in aid packages and other fundings because we're "rich" and can spread the "wealth")



So we have our constitution.... but are giving up these "rights" pretty darn quick. It seems to me, no matter how many people complain, no matter how loud the voices of everyday American's yell, nothing gets done. I just don't see how EVERY leader does poorly, casts a blind eye, or doesn't do their job. I find that to be somewhat of a scapegoat if you ask me. Something else must be going on, rather than ALL of the leaders EVER being secretive liars and thieves with their own personal selfish agenda. Sure we'd all like to believe that, so we can centralize our frustrations on one particular man, but is it really.... just his or her fault? Honestly, how can every single person in a position of power have the agenda that states "rip America down, take it for all she's worth"... The aim seems to force all Americans to live in constant fear, doubt, and despair, so we don't "feel good" about standing up for these issues.. I just don't understand it.

Why the hell are we still a super power?

Power corrupts... I guess that leaves no one out huh? So if you were a president of a company, a local government, THE government, you'd instead of making 1 billion, you'd try to make everyone else poor while you make another 3-4 billion? If it corrupts all, you too would be one to rip even your own mother off, or your children's education/health... it just doesn't add up.
Part of the reason we're number one is that fools like you can spout this crap and still live to tell about it the next day. Freedom, less government micromangement is what has helped create the US what it is, by allowing people to do their best.
 

Duwelon

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,070
0
0
Originally posted by: Coldkilla
Honestly... I'm an American and all I hear these days is that we're the last at everything, and the worst at everything. Granted most American's are kind hearted and it seems as if the corporate fat cats make the country look bad, but is that really the cause?
Seriously OP, what media sources have you been consuming?
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,281
0
0
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
frickin somebody read my post on the previous page and flame me for it so at least I'll feel like all that time went to good use
This entire thread takes one page for me - so didn't look for it since I assumed the reference was a mistake.
 

Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
3,945
0
71
Originally posted by: Duwelon
Originally posted by: Coldkilla
Honestly... I'm an American and all I hear these days is that we're the last at everything, and the worst at everything. Granted most American's are kind hearted and it seems as if the corporate fat cats make the country look bad, but is that really the cause?
Seriously OP, what media sources have you been consuming?
Perhaps I don't live in the part of the country where everyone is optimistic and happy. Everywhere I go, I hear but negative things... I guess living in inner city Milwaukee doesn't help ether.
 

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