why i7 6700k always OUT OF STOCK while 6600k is available

[Omar F1]

AVX512 was never to be in client SKUs.

And the supply depends a lot on region. Look on Europe:

Skylake:
http://geizhals.eu/?cat=cpu1151

Broadwell:
http://geizhals.eu/?cat=cpu1150&xf=1133_Core+i5-5000#xf_top
http://geizhals.eu/?cat=cpu1150&xf=1133_Core+i7-5000#xf_top

All stock and free flow. Ever since releases.

But looks like with a limited supply in a few countries only.
German-base Computeruniverse.net is still without stock.

 

[frozentundra123456]

What does the price of prior products have to do with the demand curve of existing products?

You aren't "artificially lowering demand" if you set the price such that the supply/demand curve is nearer to equilibrium.

Whoever chooses to pay the higher price obviously feels the product is worth the higher price, regardless what a predecessor product may or may not have been valued at.

For those individuals, charging a lower price nets them a bargain (they get something for less cost than what they would have otherwise been willing to pay), but that still doesn't justify the price ever having been the traditionally expected value in the first place.

As for why the supply is low, we don't really know if the supply is low, or if demand is high. All we do know (from observation) is that there is an imbalance in the supply versus demand, one which traditionally would be addressed by elevating the pricepoint (even if temporarily until such time as more supply comes available).

I guess we need real figures about how many Skylake cpus were sold/available compared to say Haswell or Ivy Bridge to really know about the supply situation.

I agree that in a vacuum, what you are saying makes sense. They could raise the price until sales match supply. (I am assuming for the sake of argument, pretty safely I believe, that 6700K is in short supply, not that they are selling in huge numbers.)

Now if skylake were in short supply because of high demand due to a 30% performance improvement, I could see a justification for raising the price. However, seeing the performance improvement was in the usual 10% range, you are basically saying Intel should reward themselves with a higher price because they cannot produce enough chips. While this might make sense from a purely economics standpoint, I think it would generate a *lot* of ill will, and eventually they would have to cut the price or have a lot of unsold chips.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

The 6700K is in stock in 20 shops here in NL, but there's no way I'd buy one if the 5820K is only 30 euros more.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Not exactly scientific and very small sample. But I asked my favourite hardware pusher site that covers Scandinavia. They say that Skylake sells more than Haswell did in the same timeframe. And NVME based SSDs is also selling like crazy.

 

[TeknoBug]

why i7 6700k always OUT OF STOCK

Probably that Intel didn't produce/ship very many.

With fast memory Skylake is 20-30% faster than Haswell.

Hmm? no.

 

[Atreidin]

Why is Passmark so popular anyway? It sort of feels like a junky benchmark some kid wrote in his basement without much thought then passed around to his friends, and then suddenly everyone uses it.

 

[Idontcare]

I guess we need real figures about how many Skylake cpus were sold/available compared to say Haswell or Ivy Bridge to really know about the supply situation.

I agree that in a vacuum, what you are saying makes sense. They could raise the price until sales match supply. (I am assuming for the sake of argument, pretty safely I believe, that 6700K is in short supply, not that they are selling in huge numbers.)

Now if skylake were in short supply because of high demand due to a 30% performance improvement, I could see a justification for raising the price. However, seeing the performance improvement was in the usual 10% range, you are basically saying Intel should reward themselves with a higher price because they cannot produce enough chips. While this might make sense from a purely economics standpoint, I think it would generate a *lot* of ill will, and eventually they would have to cut the price or have a lot of unsold chips.

Did the memory makers generate a lot of ill-will by pricing DDR4 Dimms higher than DDR3 dimms? Of course not, they are priced higher (and atmospherically so for the highest clocked stuff, just as the 6700K is the highest clocked Intel SKU) until such time that volume and yields pan out to generate supply in excess of demand.

The only reason I can fathom for Intel to hold prices needlessly low, such that demand outstrips supply, is because of the ecosystem. In order to ensure mobo makers had sufficient and compelling economic expectations for Skylake related TAM, Intel had to ensure a low-ball price that would sync up with the notion that Intel was going to shift millions and millions of OC'ing capable 6*00K chips such that all major mobo makers (and ram makers) jumped on the bandwagon of gearing up to shift an equal number of units.

In a nutshell, ecosystem mindshare. But the yields probably didn't come through, otherwise we'd see a shortage of mobos and ram kit on par with the shortage of 6700K.

 

[Boze]

The 6700K is frequently out of stock whereas the 6600K is frequently in stock for one reason and one reason alone - price.

Intel priced the 6700K too low, and the 6600K too high.

Had Intel priced the 6700K at $400 or $450, and the 6600K at $200 or $150, the availability situation would be exactly the opposite between those two SKUs.

We can all make rational arguments regarding the supply disparity, but the bottom line is that the demand disparity is solely due to Intel mispricing the 6700K.

I hate to break this to yah, genius, but if the i7 6700k was priced at $400 it'd stay on shelves because you can pick up an i7 4790K for $300 - $325 and you'll get over the 6 - 8% performance difference pretty fast, because another $100 means another 16 GB of RAM or a GTX 980 Ti instead of a GTX 980, or another 4 TB hard drive for your rig, or a $100 watercooler to let you overclock your i7 4790K to Skylake performance levels.

Prices don't exist in a vacuum. You price shit too high and you end up pricing yourself right out of the market.

 

[Innokentij]

what is the reason intel made many of 6600k but not 6700k ???

Nobody knows, have to ask Intel direct, whole thread is just bunch of "probably cause"

 

[wneubert]

If what I read is true, the I5-6600k is available because they recycle failed I7-6700k into I5-6600k. Sadly the article says the shortage won't end till the end of November. On the upside there are may benchmarks showing the 6700k is little to no faster than the 4790k. There are even benchmarks where 6700k loses, http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html.

This stinks for over clockers since in the "silicon lottery" it means the I5s are all verified losing tickets. It also puts a damper on the argument that I5 is just as good as I7.

The article I read looked legit. Here is a clip:

PCR's distribution source says there's another reason why Skylake is in short supply - it's because Intel has a lack of materials, so it can'tmake as many 6700ks as it needs for market demand.

"There have been issues getting the 6700k up to standard," the source said. "They can't get the quality right on the 6700k, so they are recycling them down to 6600k to get more stock into the market.

"In order to get to the speed required for a 6700k CPU, you need a better quality silicon - and Intel needs to get that quality of the silicon right."

Here is a link: http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/read...-of-skylake-cpus-until-end-of-november/036847

 

[LTC8K6]

That's pretty much how all CPUs are made and binned as far as I know.

6600K chips seem to overclock okay.

 

[wneubert]

I agree, but didn't realize they could turn an I7 into an I5, or at least I never thought about it. But it is a great explanation for why I5 is in stock and I7 isn't.

As for overclocking, I didn't mean you can't overclock, because you can increase the voltage, which Intel won't. I meant you are starting with an under performing chip which will limit what you can get out of it.

To me, overclocking is has been pretty much dead for a while anyway. You used to be able to overclock 30%, even as late as I7-2600k. But now Intel is wisely taking advantage of the headroom. The I7-4790k was effectively overclocked to 4.4Ghz by Intel, and there is no way your getting 30% additional out of it.

Plus they say "free" performance, then they buy an expensive cooler, or god forbid, water cool it. And the time you spend over clocking and testing seems to be valued at zero.

 

[ShintaiDK]

LOL, an i5 can simply be an i7 with a bad cache block. (8 vs 6MB)

Overclocking means running above spec. All binnings=spec.

 

[SPBHM]

a lot of people would buy an i7 6600K (same l3/clock specs but HT turned on) for more than they are paying for the i5 6600K, but sure, once supply is sorted this would only kill the 6700K and lower their profits I think...

 

[LTC8K6]

I agree, but didn't realize they could turn an I7 into an I5, or at least I never thought about it. But it is a great explanation for why I5 is in stock and I7 isn't.

As for overclocking, I didn't mean you can't overclock, because you can increase the voltage, which Intel won't. I meant you are starting with an under performing chip which will limit what you can get out of it.

To me, overclocking is has been pretty much dead for a while anyway. You used to be able to overclock 30%, even as late as I7-2600k. But now Intel is wisely taking advantage of the headroom. The I7-4790k was effectively overclocked to 4.4Ghz by Intel, and there is no way your getting 30% additional out of it.

Plus they say "free" performance, then they buy an expensive cooler, or god forbid, water cool it. And the time you spend over clocking and testing seems to be valued at zero.

Most Z97 boards will let you set the multi on all cores to the turbo multiplier with no problem and no fiddling around. I call that free performance. Take a standard i7-4790, set overclock to manual, set the multi to 40, and you have A 4.0ghz i7 with no sweat. It basically works on any chip with turbo boost. Even the Xeons, which are cheaper chips.

My 4790K, may it rest in peace, ran well with lowered voltage. I was lowering the voltage to get lower temps, but keeping the speed.

I don't know what it might have made it to if I were an extreme overclocker, but I think it was definitely a good chip for overclocking.

Waiting to see what I get back from intel to replace it.

 

[wneubert]

I shouldn't have said anything about overclocking since I know some people like to do it still. I know you can get some slight benefits for free and even more if you have a good cooler and motherboard.

What I was trying to say is these gains have been reduced in the newer CPUs (Intel at least), to the point where the gains are really marginal and without a running benchmark you might not even notice the difference.

 

[LTC8K6]

6700K is in stock at Newegg $369.00

 

[LTC8K6]

I shouldn't have said anything about overclocking since I know some people like to do it still. I know you can get some slight benefits for free and even more if you have a good cooler and motherboard.

What I was trying to say is these gains have been reduced in the newer CPUs (Intel at least), to the point where the gains are really marginal and without a running benchmark you might not even notice the difference.

I think it depends a lot on what you are doing with the system.

Many things have shown decent progress from SB, to IB, to HW.

Encoding and rendering, for example.

Some certainly haven't.

 

[sf8user]

FYI in the San Francisco Area - Central Computer (San Mateo and probably other stores) now has the Intel Core i5 6400, 6500 in stock in addition to the 6600k, 6700k.

Interesting that newegg still does not have them.

 

[iSkylaker]

Interesting that newegg still does not have them.

what?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=19-117-559

 

[ShintaiDK]

what?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=19-117-559

He is talking about mainstream models. Not K models.

 

[arandomguy]

I think it depends a lot on what you are doing with the system.

Many things have shown decent progress from SB, to IB, to HW.

Encoding and rendering, for example.

Some certainly haven't.

I think he is referring to the relative gains from overclocking from each generation.

With Sandybridge you were looking at gains in the 30% range via overclocking. Successive generation have dropped those gains down to 10% which is rather marginal in terms of noticeable difference for the vast majority of usage cases.

For usage such as rendering or encoding where the difference where such a minor difference may be more notable it does also bring to mind his point that one would be better off moving to a higher SKU then investing into more expensive aftermarket solutions to aid overclocking.

 

[LTC8K6]

I think he is referring to the relative gains from overclocking from each generation.

With Sandybridge you were looking at gains in the 30% range via overclocking. Successive generation have dropped those gains down to 10% which is rather marginal in terms of noticeable difference for the vast majority of usage cases.

For usage such as rendering or encoding where the difference where such a minor difference may be more notable it does also bring to mind his point that one would be better off moving to a higher SKU then investing into more expensive aftermarket solutions to aid overclocking.

Ah. Well, I was an avid computer nut and builder back in the P4 days, but then I left it cold turkey for years.

I got back into it recently with Haswell.

So, for me, it's been P4 then Haswell. :biggrin:

 

[iSkylaker]

He is talking about mainstream models. Not K models.

ah, well in that case, they will officially go on sale in two days in NA, on the 27th. Although, apparently TigerDirect has them in stock.