Why (health) insurance companies must go

[JMapleton]

And the top selling basketball shoes year after year are still Jordan brand. >_> Lebron just don't have what it takes.

Lebron is the number 2 best selling "signature" basketball shoe brand on the market. He sells $300m a year of his shoes. I think he's doing fine. He'll never be MJ but he's top of the pack for his generation.

 

[JMapleton]

They just keep making more and more while the wages of the people they manage have pretty well stayed put despite large increases in productivity.

While I agree, that is absolutely true. But whether you like it or not, that's demand for talented CEOs is high, while the supply is low. Meanwhile it's easy for companies to find qualified workers and freshly minted college graduates willing to work for cheap.

I'm not a CEO, but I can only be honest. Everything goes for market rate. It's the law of economics. You can say it's not fair but it's the reality of the situation.

If you don't like what you're being paid, find something else or start your own business.

 

[Engineer]

While I agree, that is absolutely true. But whether you like it or not, that's demand for talented CEOs is high, while the supply is low. Meanwhile it's easy for companies to find qualified workers and freshly minted college graduates willing to work for cheap.

I'm not a CEO, but I can only be honest. Everything goes for market rate. It's the law of economics. You can say it's not fair but it's the reality of the situation.

If you don't like what you're being paid, find something else or start your own business.

LOL, stack the board of directors with other 'friendly' CEO's and wonder why the pay is so high. Jump from company to company, even while running some of them into the ground before jumping and get a nice parachute and a pay raise at the next place.

What's wrong with this picture:


Alan Mulally - Ford Motor Company - $21 million
Martin Winterkorn - Volkswagen - $19 million
Dieter Zetsche - Daimler - $14.5 million
Dan Akerson - General Motors - $11 million
Akio Toyoda - Toyota - $1.9 million

 

[JMapleton]

LOL, stack the board of directors with other 'friendly' CEO's and wonder why the pay is so high. Jump from company to company, even while running some of them into the ground before jumping and get a nice parachute and a pay raise at the next place.

What's wrong with this picture:


Alan Mulally - Ford Motor Company - $21 million
Martin Winterkorn - Volkswagen - $19 million
Dieter Zetsche - Daimler - $14.5 million
Dan Akerson - General Motors - $11 million
Akio Toyoda - Toyota - $1.9 million

Akio Toyoda is already worth hundreds, probably over a billion dollars from inherited money. He doesn't need a big salary. Bill Gates didn't take a huge salary when he ran Microsoft. Try again.

 

[Slew Foot]

Do you have any data to support this is exclusive to the insurance industry? Looks like business as usual for US corporations to me.

you obviously skipped over the graph that showed US per capita spending on admin is 3-20 times that of other countries.

edit: quoted wrong post

 

[TheSlamma]

My insurance company made me do a test procedure that was billed out to them at $6000 to prove the long term solution would actually work. My co-pay for it was 10% of that crap. The full blown procedure was $1100. If I knew that crap I would have just foot the bill outside of insurance and done the long term procedure. The test that ran only proved that yes I had the problem the doc already found in the office

 

[Slew Foot]

One guy's $500k salary does not effect the billions and billions of dollars in healthcare claims. That's like saying one man peeing in the ocean is killing off the sea turtles.

You just see a big number (it's actually not that big) and react emotionally. For most people $500k a year is a lot of money. I would guess Anand was making more than that with this website when he owned it. That's not a lot of money.

$500k is what i make a year about, and guess what, Im the CEO of a medical corporation (while performing clinical duties). The US spends 3-20 times what other countries spend on admin, fat salaries for guys sitting at a desk not really performing health care is a part of that.

 

[Engineer]

Akio Toyoda is already worth hundreds, probably over a billion dollars from inherited money. He doesn't need a big salary. Bill Gates didn't take a huge salary when he ran Microsoft. Try again.

and those other guys NEED a big salary? Try indeed.

Again, stack the boards with 'friendly' CEO's and it becomes a good ole boy country club.

 

[xeemzor]

$500k is what i make a year about, and guess what, Im the CEO of a medical corporation (while performing clinical duties). The US spends 3-20 times what other countries spend on admin, fat salaries for guys sitting at a desk not really performing health care is a part of that.

Doctors should be getting more of that money instead of administrators. IMO there should rules against owning primary care monopolies like you have today. Control over that referral path is just too powerful. More open minded and independent doctors would do a tremendous amount of good to the system.

 

[sdifox]

I can only shake head at USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Health_systems_comparison_OECD_2008.png

 

[sdifox]

Sorry, but Fuck that! Please explain how the ability to afford more expensive things should have anything to do with paying for someone else's healthcare.

you already do. except you get shitty healthcare on top of spending top dollars.

 

[Jeff7]

While I agree, that is absolutely true. But whether you like it or not, that's demand for talented CEOs is high, while the supply is low. Meanwhile it's easy for companies to find qualified workers and freshly minted college graduates willing to work for cheap.

I'm not a CEO, but I can only be honest. Everything goes for market rate. It's the law of economics. You can say it's not fair but it's the reality of the situation.

If you don't like what you're being paid, find something else or start your own business.

Markets can be rigged to favor certain individuals, groups, or classes.

 

[JMapleton]

and those other guys NEED a big salary? Try indeed.

Again, stack the boards with 'friendly' CEO's and it becomes a good ole boy country club.

Market rate!

Those other guys are not billionaires. They go to work everyday to make the money, not to further a legacy like Toyoda or Gates.

Do all the computer engineers on this forum need to make $80-100k?? No, they could live off $40k. But the market rate for their job dictates they are worth more.

For most CEOs, their position is their job, they're not doing it for charitable purposes and they want to be paid market rate or else they would rather retire and sit on a beach.

The common man thinks being a CEO is just sitting on a leather chair looking at reports. Those guys have to put up with a lot of crap and if something major in the company goes wrong, it's they who get blamed by everyone else in the company. They take on a lot of responsibility. Why would you take a job like that and only accept 10% of what the market says they'll pay?

You're talking about "needs"? You sound like Marx.

 

[TheSlamma]

$500k is what i make a year about, and guess what, Im the CEO of a medical corporation (while performing clinical duties). The US spends 3-20 times what other countries spend on admin, fat salaries for guys sitting at a desk not really performing health care is a part of that.

sweet, one of the ATOT millionaires!

 

[Engineer]

D/P

 

[Engineer]

You're talking about "needs"? You sound like Marx.

I never mentioned NEED until you said that the CEO of Toyota doesn't need to make that much.

Akio Toyoda is already worth hundreds, probably over a billion dollars from inherited money. He doesn't need a big salary. Bill Gates didn't take a huge salary when he ran Microsoft. Try again.

As for market rates, when the market is rigged, it's pretty simple to get what you 'want'...much less 'need'.

Here is exactly the problem with the US and it's not just healthcare (but healthcare is the thread topic and it's just as relevant here as any other industry in the US):

CEO Pay Ratio

The ratio of CEO pay to the median salary for all other employees in the company provides a reference of how high CEO pay is. It's often used to compare CEO pay across countries. U.S. CEOs earn from 400 to 500 times the median salary for workers. For CEOs in the U.K., the ratio is 22; in France, it's 15; and in Germany it's 12.

http://work.chron.com/ceo-compensation-vs-world-15509.html. I'm sure the US CEO's are worth so much more than the 'good' CEO's around the world through.

The common man thinks being a CEO is just sitting on a leather chair looking at reports. Those guys have to put up with a lot of crap and if something major in the company goes wrong, it's they who get blamed by everyone else in the company. They take on a lot of responsibility. Why would you take a job like that and only accept 10% of what the market says they'll pay?

Except if the common man fucks up, he gets kicked to the curb and if he fucks up pretty bad, might even get jail time. If 'most' CEO's fuck up, they get a bonus and if they really fuck up, they get to jump out with a parachute and somehow, end up somewhere else doing the same thing over and over again.

 

[Strk]

Akio Toyoda is already worth hundreds, probably over a billion dollars from inherited money. He doesn't need a big salary. Bill Gates didn't take a huge salary when he ran Microsoft. Try again.

And the CEOs of Costco and Honda make less than that group too. I'm sorry, but the whole "must retain talent" argument is a joke. The people cleaning the toilets show more loyalty towards those companies than most CEOs ever will.

 

[JMapleton]

Except if the common man fucks up, he gets kicked to the curb and if he fucks up pretty bad, might even get jail time. If 'most' CEO's fuck up, they get a bonus and if they really fuck up, they get to jump out with a parachute and somehow, end up somewhere else doing the same thing over and over again.

Nice try. Officers of companies are held at a higher level of legal liability for mistakes they make. Common employees usually just get fired unless they doing it for personal gain. There is an endless list of CEOs and officers of companies that spent and are still currently spending time in jail.

 

[Engineer]

Nice try. Officers of companies can be held personally liable for mistakes they make. Common employees usually just get fired unless they doing it for personal gain. There is an endless list of CEOs and officers of companies that spent and are still currently spending time in jail.

Believe what you want. IMO (and many other's), it's a cooked system and those people are not WORTH anything near what they are getting. The rest of the world's CEO's pay rate (even in US dollars) reflects that.

Talent? Heh.

 

[JMapleton]

Believe what you want. IMO (and many other's), it's a cooked system and those people are not WORTH anything near what they are getting. The rest of the world's CEO's pay rate (even in US dollars) reflects that.

According to you. If Lebron James can make $70m to dunking a ball, I have no problem with someone making $20m for running a $100 billion company that employs 100,000 people.

 

[IAteYourMother]

My cell phone plan doesn't have unlimited data and I want unlimited data, but I don't want to pay extra on top of my plan. Therefore a government solution is needed.

Here's a clue: first world problems like the one described can always be solved with (your) money.

Insurance companies aren't middle men, anyone that claim that doesn't understand economics. Insurance is simply a risk pool.

Insurance companies work with risk pools but eliminate the highest risk and costly population (the elderly) and throw that to the government (medicaid/care), so essentially we all pay not only for our own insurance privately, but also for everyone else's insurance anyways through taxes for medicare/medicaid. So wtf is the point?

 

[Engineer]

Insurance companies work with risk pools but eliminate the highest risk and costly population (the elderly) and throw that to the government (medicaid/care), so essentially we all pay not only for our own insurance privately, but also for everyone else's insurance anyways through taxes for medicare/medicaid. So wtf is the point?

Not to mention those that go to the ER or other forms of medical providers and can't or won't pay. Those costs don't just magically disappear....they get added to the bill of the people that do pay.

 

[bradly1101]

Then there are the really complicated and expensive procedures, which is where insurance can be a literal lifesaver.

But if we did it like other countries that risk would still be shared. Everyone would pay into a single fund that's not subject to profit taking. Genius!

 

[OverVolt]

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[OverVolt]

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