Why hasn't in-game Dolby Digital taken off for PCs?

[CptObvious]

I'm talking about discrete 5.1 like on the XBox, not Pro Logic. You'd think it'd be a standard feature by now. Is Creative trying to keep EAX alive by not putting DD encoders on their cards?

 

[Accord99]

How many computer users have a speaker system with an onboard DD decoder? Let alone the number of users with an DD decoder that can beat the A2's DAC? And DD has nothing to do with EAX, DD is a compression technique for audio, EAX is for generating more realistic 3D position audio.

 

[CptObvious]

Originally posted by: Accord99
How many computer users have a speaker system with an onboard DD decoder? Let alone the number of users with an DD decoder that can beat the A2's DAC? And DD has nothing to do with EAX, DD is a compression technique for audio, EAX is for generating more realistic 3D position audio.

I was thinking that in-game Dolby Digital could eventually replace EAX (and other positional audio like A3D, if it's still around).

Also, if games offered in-game DD support, don't you think more gamers would go out and buy a 5.1 setup and sound card? I mean you can get a Logitech 5.1 system with DD/DTS now for $200, but people buy them mainly for watching DVDs on their PC. Most computer users probably wouldn't spend the money but gamers are always upgrading gear.

 

[gururu]

Who needs DD when THX is now becoming standard on audio cards?

 

[Dug]

Originally posted by: gururu
Who needs DD when THX is now becoming standard on audio cards?

THX isn't a format for positional sound.

 

[gururu]

Originally posted by: Dug

Originally posted by: gururu
Who needs DD when THX is now becoming standard on audio cards?

THX isn't a format for positional sound.

THX EX
THX EX is the name of a new Dolby Digital sound format, using 6.1 channels. The format adds an additional surround center channel to the current 5.1 setup to create a more engrossing surround field that is compatible to the front field in terms of spatial integration. Unlike sound formats like DTS,THX EX does not necessarily require additional equipment to listen to the audio track. It is an extension and as such backwards compatible with the current Dolby Digital standard. If you do not have a THX EX decoder in your home theater setup, the playback will be automatically converted for 5.1 playback.

source

 

[Slick5150]

No, it's not called THX EX. It'd Dolby Digtal EX (or DD-EX).

http://www.dolbydigital.com/re...tech_library/index.cfm

THX is Lucas's "certification" process, meaning you pay them to say "yes, this meets our criteria for good sound/video". It's actually fairly meaningless.

 

[gururu]

Originally posted by: PinwiZ
No, it's not called THX EX. It'd Dolby Digtal EX (or DD-EX).

http://www.dolbydigital.com/re...tech_library/index.cfm

THX is Lucas's "certification" process, meaning you pay them to say "yes, this meets our criteria for good sound/video". It's actually fairly meaningless.

why oh why are people always trying to prove each other wrong!!!!

THX EX

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: CptObvious
I was thinking that in-game Dolby Digital could eventually replace EAX (and other positional audio like A3D, if it's still around). .

You don't create positional audio in DD. You have to have it in some master form (DirectSound3D/EAX for games, uncompressed master track in movies) then compress it into DD. In fact for games, it's not necessary since the main benefit of DD is reduction of data size to a reasonable size for storage, which is not necessary for dynamic positional audio like in games.

 

[CptObvious]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: CptObvious
I was thinking that in-game Dolby Digital could eventually replace EAX (and other positional audio like A3D, if it's still around). .

You don't create positional audio in DD. You have to have it in some master form (DirectSound3D/EAX for games, uncompressed master track in movies) then compress it into DD. In fact for games, it's not necessary since the main benefit of DD is reduction of data size to a reasonable size for storage, which is not necessary for dynamic positional audio like in games.

I might be wrong, but isn't EAX just some delays that a Creative card adds to the audio to give the illusion of 3D?

 

[Wingznut]

However you want to define it, the positional audio in PC games is quite inferior to Xbox games. Just like the OP, I'm quite surprised that it hasn't improved.

I'm even more surprised that it's not a very hot topic.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: CptObvious
I might be wrong, but isn't EAX just some delays that a Creative card adds to the audio to give the illusion of 3D?

No. DirectSound3D is the base for discrete 3D audio and EAX consists several levels of techniques, from reverb to reflection, you can do to the sound to make it more realistic. It depends on the game developers on how much effort they want to go to.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
However you want to define it, the positional audio in PC games is quite inferior to Xbox games. Just like the OP, I'm quite surprised that it hasn't improved.

I'm even more surprised that it's not a very hot topic.

It's all about money and effort, not DD. XBox games use DirectSound3D to generate 3D audio, just like most PC games. Any quality difference lies soley with the game developers.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: Wingznut
However you want to define it, the positional audio in PC games is quite inferior to Xbox games. Just like the OP, I'm quite surprised that it hasn't improved.

I'm even more surprised that it's not a very hot topic.

It's all about money and effort, not DD. XBox games use DirectSound3D to generate 3D audio, just like most PC games. Any quality difference lies soley with the game developers.

So, you're saying that game developers just aren't that concerned with high quality/accuracy positional audio?

I've been told that if you use optical out on a PC (to a receiver), you'll get Pro Logic sound. Yet with the Xbox, you get 5.1DD. Why???

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
So, you're saying that game developers just aren't that concerned with high quality/accuracy positional audio?

It would seem to be the case for many games. It's hard to show-off in advertising and the number of people with high-quality speaker systems connected to their computers just isnt' that high. Doom 3's software sound engine was hyped a lot before its release (first 5.1 game! first true Dolby Digital game! all false), and it really is quite basic and most of its sound effects are low quality 32Kbit/s, 22050Hz mono ogg files.

I've been told that if you use optical out on a PC (to a receiver), you'll get Pro Logic sound. Yet with the Xbox, you get 5.1DD. Why???

The XBox, like SoundStorm has an onboard DD encoder. What happens is that the game generates 3D audio with DirectSound3D, the sound card portion of the XBox converts the 3D audio into 6 channels and feeds it into the DD encoder to output a single DD signal. Exactly like what would happen with a SoundStorm PC. Other soundcards don't have a DD encoder and can only output uncompressed stereo over a digital optical or coaxial connection. Creative soundcards can in fact output uncompressed 5.1 digital audio, but it only works with some computer speaker systems, simply because the HT industry has had lots of trouble trying to standardize on a uncompressed multichannel digital audio connection.

 

[Slick5150]

Originally posted by: gururu

Originally posted by: PinwiZ
No, it's not called THX EX. It'd Dolby Digtal EX (or DD-EX).

http://www.dolbydigital.com/re...tech_library/index.cfm

THX is Lucas's "certification" process, meaning you pay them to say "yes, this meets our criteria for good sound/video". It's actually fairly meaningless.

why oh why are people always trying to prove each other wrong!!!!

THX EX

My point was that the surround encoding technology is DD-EX. The THX EX is just marketing and pointless to this discussion which is about DD surround sound gaming.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Accord99
Creative soundcards can in fact output uncompressed 5.1 digital audio, but it only works with some computer speaker systems, simply because the HT industry has had lots of trouble trying to standardize on a uncompressed multichannel digital audio connection.

But if I were to output to my 5.1 receiver, it will still be Pro Logic, right?

 

[GoSharks]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Accord99
Creative soundcards can in fact output uncompressed 5.1 digital audio, but it only works with some computer speaker systems, simply because the HT industry has had lots of trouble trying to standardize on a uncompressed multichannel digital audio connection.

But if I were to output to my 5.1 receiver, it will still be Pro Logic, right?

AFAIK, prologic uses a standard stereo signal and creates a fake surround by sending it to your 5.1 speakers that are hooked up to your receiver. you can turn on prologic and have the receiver just send it to your front two speakers as stereo.

if you output a DD5.1 signal (say from a dvd), your receiver will recognize this and switch to DD5.1 mode.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Accord99
Creative soundcards can in fact output uncompressed 5.1 digital audio, but it only works with some computer speaker systems, simply because the HT industry has had lots of trouble trying to standardize on a uncompressed multichannel digital audio connection.

But if I were to output to my 5.1 receiver, it will still be Pro Logic, right?

The only way that I'm aware of to output Dolby Digital to a receiver (for all sound sources, not just premixed stuff like DVD's) is to use a nForce2 motherboard with SoundStorm. I do this at LAN parties and it works perfectly.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
The only way that I'm aware of to output Dolby Digital to a receiver (for all sound sources, not just premixed stuff like DVD's) is to use a nForce2 motherboard with SoundStorm. I do this at LAN parties and it works perfectly.

And that's completely silly... The fact that the overwhelming majority of PC audio isn't true 5.1. And this is supposed to be the most advanced gaming machine.

5.1DD is one of the things that makes the Xbox experience so immersive.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Accord99
Creative soundcards can in fact output uncompressed 5.1 digital audio, but it only works with some computer speaker systems, simply because the HT industry has had lots of trouble trying to standardize on a uncompressed multichannel digital audio connection.

But if I were to output to my 5.1 receiver, it will still be Pro Logic, right?

Using a digital connection, it will only be stereo. However, use the analog connections to the receiver's 5.1 analog inputs and you'll get 5.1 audio from games, and with a decent sound card, better quality than you can with DD encoded digital signal.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
The only way that I'm aware of to output Dolby Digital to a receiver (for all sound sources, not just premixed stuff like DVD's) is to use a nForce2 motherboard with SoundStorm. I do this at LAN parties and it works perfectly.

And that's completely silly... The fact that the overwhelming majority of PC audio isn't true 5.1. And this is supposed to be the most advanced gaming machine.

5.1DD is one of the things that makes the Xbox experience so immersive.

I'm not quite sure what you mean...? "The overwhelming majority of PC audio isn't true 5.1" - you're referring to sound card manufacturers and such? If so, then I agree...I still don't know why no one but Nvidia seems to have a clue. Oh, and to make things worse, they don't even support realtime DD 5.1 encoding anymore on Nforce3&4 motherboards - so now I have to either give up that option, or stick with my Athlon XP system for now.

Edit: and Accord99 is correct too - you can easily output a 5.1 signal in most cases from several (many?) sound cards; trying to get a digital connection through one cable is where the difficulty arises. And who really wants to run six wires from a computer to a receiver anyway? I know I don't. This is why I'm in no hurry to upgrade to an Athlon 64 system...