Question Why hasn't AMD announced desktop Renoir APUs?

[TheRookie]

Why hasn't AMD announced desktop Renoir APUs?

AMD could simple release the same Renoir mobile processors on the desktop.

For example:

Ryzen 5 4600H --> Ryzen 5 3600G

Ryzen 7 4800H --> Ryzen 7 3700G/3800G

 

[Shivansps]

Why? The low-end Matisse 6c chip launched at $199 and is dropping in price already. There's plenty of room for a downclocked 6c APU that isn't as fast as a 3600 in the traditional APU price points. 8c maybe so, but by the time Vermeer is out, there will be plenty of room in AMD's lineup for a $150-ish 8c Renoir on the desktop.

Im not seeing a 8C Zen2 cpu below 200 this year to be honest. AMD needs to replace the 3400G at $150 with something good, this means a 6C with Vega 8 at very high clocks, that may or may not have SMT. If it does have SMT, they may launch a 8/8 at $200 and a 8/16 at 250. And the 4200G may be 4/8 or 6/6 at $100, this would be the absolutely best case escenario.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@Shivansps

That seems plausible. I'm not convinced that they'll have an APU in the $300 or higher segment, though. $250 might be a stretch, or it might not last long at that price point due to market forces. Less than 6 months to Vermeer in all probability, and that will change the market value of a lot of things.

 

[moinmoin]

With Ryzen 3000 the APUs replaced the sub 6 cores offerings. I can see the same happening with sub 8 cores (sub 12 seems like too big a stretch) offerings as part of Ryzen 4000. Pricing will depend on how AMD intends to set up the range in the next round. But I suspect they'll do more of what they did with Ryzen 3000/Threadripper 3 where they essentially kept the Zen 1 prices at launch but extended the performance (thanks to Zen 2) and expanded the top end offerings with more cores. So we may see little changes which would mean Renoir costing the same as iGPU-less counterparts currently.

 

[Gideon]

With Ryzen 3000 the APUs replaced the sub 6 cores offerings. I can see the same happening with sub 8 cores (sub 12 seems like too big a stretch) offerings as part of Ryzen 4000. Pricing will depend on how AMD intends to set up the range in the next round. But I suspect they'll do more of what they did with Ryzen 3000/Threadripper 3 where they essentially kept the Zen 1 prices at launch but extended the performance (thanks to Zen 2) and expanded the top end offerings with more cores. So we may see little changes which would mean Renoir costing the same as iGPU-less counterparts currently.

Phasing out 3600 and 3600x would be a very bad move, as the strong gaming performance of these chips really relies on the 2x16MB of L3 cache. The APU cuts it doen to 2x4MB.

 

[maddie]

Phasing out 3600 and 3600x would be a very bad move, as the strong gaming performance of these chips really relies on the 2x16MB of L3 cache. The APU cuts it doen to 2x4MB.

Do we have any indication that the cache reduction will hurt a lot? I ask this as there is no chiplet penalty in APUs.

 

[Gideon]

Do we have any indication that the cache reduction will hurt a lot? I ask this as there is no chiplet penalty in APUs.

That's actually a good point, didn't consider the fact that Renoir on desktop can improve memory latency noticably.

Still, according to AMD itself the added L3 cuts effective memory latency by (up to) 33ns:

Now I know it's a marketing slide (gamecache, eww), but even then this looks like a substantial increase (the L3 is quadroupled not doubled). Does anyone have the RZ3-15 endnotes slide to know the details of how AMD measured it?

 

[Zepp]

Do we have any indication that the cache reduction will hurt a lot? I ask this as there is no chiplet penalty in APUs.

not sure if it's entirely relevant but there was an old discussion on reddit when raven ridge first launched about it's performance compared with 1500X. CCX vs monolithic with less L3

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/7vjolu

 

[moinmoin]

Phasing out 3600 and 3600x would be a very bad move, as the strong gaming performance of these chips really relies on the 2x16MB of L3 cache. The APU cuts it doen to 2x4MB.

Older gens are not really phased out, they just don't get a non-APU successor in the new gen (like 4600, if that is still 6c/12t).

Regarding the influence of the cut L3 cache size on Renoir has on latency plenty folks seem to expect the worst. I expect it to be the first application of Zen 3's unified L3 cache, making it perform with similar latency just like AMD managed with the previous two APU gens despite their cut L3 caches.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Phasing out 3600 and 3600x would be a very bad move, as the strong gaming performance of these chips really relies on the 2x16MB of L3 cache. The APU cuts it doen to 2x4MB.

Those chips will only be phased out when AMD releases Vermeer equivalents. Those will be even better as gaming chips.