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Why go cheep if you overclock?

Pederv

Golden Member
I see a lot of people suggest getting cheap RAM "You'll only lose 3-5% in performace".
The motherboard of choice "You'll lose 3-5% at stock speeds, but it overclocks great!"
Heck, with those 2 choices you'll use 200MHz of your overclock just to get where you would be if you bought some better quality components!

Wouldn't quality components get you a better performing system?
 
$100 for cheap RAM, or $250 for that extra 3-5% performance. Hmmmmmm. Overclocking is about getting the most for your money. Spending $250 vs. $100 for a 3-5% performance increase isn't exactly getting the most for your money.
 
is it even 3-5%, it was like 10% in winrar, and 5% in games at low resolution but at higher resolutions in didn't make a difference so unless your into benchmarking, with a64's, save the money and get a better videocard
 
But then higher quality RAM will run at a higher frequency with lower timings. Thus equating to maybe another 100MHz or more in CPU speed. Granted some apps need raw CPU power, but others need to move data quickly.
 
Originally posted by: Pederv
But then higher quality RAM will run at a higher frequency with lower timings. Thus equating to maybe another 100MHz or more in CPU speed. Granted some apps need raw CPU power, but others need to move data quickly.

It doesn't work that way with Athlon 64's.

Sure you can spend $1350 on an FX-57 and 1 GB of fast RAM. Or you could spend $350 on a 3200+ and 1 GB of cheap RAM and have 90% of the performance for only 25% of the cost.
 
Originally posted by: coomar
like in your case, isn't the s2g a POS? you would have been far better going off with a NF7 V2

My first X800XT from newegg, blew up my MSI K7N2. So I picked up the cheapest Nforce board I could find, to hold me for a couple of months. It's going into the daughters system before school starts.
 
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: Pederv
But then higher quality RAM will run at a higher frequency with lower timings. Thus equating to maybe another 100MHz or more in CPU speed. Granted some apps need raw CPU power, but others need to move data quickly.

It doesn't work that way with Athlon 64's.

Sure you can spend $1350 on an FX-57 and 1 GB of fast RAM. Or you could spend $350 on a 3200+ and 1 GB of cheap RAM and have 90% of the performance for only 25% of the cost.

Or you could spend $350 for a 3700+ with an XP-90, and $100 for the gig of ram, and have 99% equal performance for 1/3 of the cost. 🙂

But like everyone said, it's about bang for the buck. I bet no one on this forum [almost no one] owns an FX-57. That's because they know that they can get that level of performance with a bit of tweaking.

 
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: Pederv
But then higher quality RAM will run at a higher frequency with lower timings. Thus equating to maybe another 100MHz or more in CPU speed. Granted some apps need raw CPU power, but others need to move data quickly.

It doesn't work that way with Athlon 64's.

Sure you can spend $1350 on an FX-57 and 1 GB of fast RAM. Or you could spend $350 on a 3200+ and 1 GB of cheap RAM and have 90% of the performance for only 25% of the cost.

But Anands tests show that the more you multitask, the faster your memory should be.
 
Originally posted by: Pederv
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: Pederv
But then higher quality RAM will run at a higher frequency with lower timings. Thus equating to maybe another 100MHz or more in CPU speed. Granted some apps need raw CPU power, but others need to move data quickly.

It doesn't work that way with Athlon 64's.

Sure you can spend $1350 on an FX-57 and 1 GB of fast RAM. Or you could spend $350 on a 3200+ and 1 GB of cheap RAM and have 90% of the performance for only 25% of the cost.

But Anands tests show that the more you multitask, the faster your memory should be.

most can live with having more $$$ and a 5% lower computer performance.
 
The penalty with timing and memory divider is around 80MHz core speed. Add another 40MHz with the board. That's not a lot of performance when you factor in the additional $ you'll be spending on expensive RAM and motherboard.

Without benchmark applications, there is NO way the user could notice the 120MHz core speed penalty.
 
i thought anandtech's benchmarks were with the x2's, when having 2 cores, more bandwith helps but with the single core the on-die controller saturates the cpu with memory bandwith
 
I believe in business it is called a cost / benefit analysis.

We don't always realize we are doing it but we do.

There are two types of overclockers:
1) People who overclock to get the fastest everything
2) People who buy slow and overclock to extend the value of their dollar.

Most people here are type 2)

Personally, I do benchmarks in the applications I use most where performance matters to me (specific games I play mostly) and my testing has shown that at the resolutions I play at I simply cannot get better MINIMUM frame rates by increasing RAM speed or CPU speed. In some cases there was zero difference at all for a 700 MHz overclock becuase it's a video card limited situation. So it is totally pointless for me to have spent any more money than I did (3000+ @ 2.5GHz). In most cases I can't even tell the difference between 400 MHz of CPU speed because I'm in a video card limited situation.

Take a look at this example for BF2 by the Inquirer, this is typical of what I see:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23973

scroll down to 'memory and CPU' see how 1.6 GHz and 2.4 GHz are almost identical except for one part where the frame rates are already well above 70 FPS. That is the kind of thing I see when I do FRAPS, except I usually set my video settings so my minimum in closer to the 40-45 FPS range. Faster is only gaining in the highest FPS areas. I don't care if I get higher framerates in the higher FPS areas, I want higher framerates in the lower FPS areas, and I find that does not typically come with CPU and memory speed improvements, but with graphics card improvements.

Anyway you can get very good memory for near the price of value RAM that you don't have to compromise much on RAM performance at all. Crucial generic RAM is failed Ballistix and overclocks VERY well. Twinmos is often UTT that will run 2-2-2 with enough voltage and 2-3-2 1GB sticks are less than $120 per gig. There is just no longer any reason to buy the expensive RAM anymore. You don't lose 2-3% you lose less than 1% because cheap RAM overclocks to within inches of the performance of the stuff that costs twice as much.

The bottom line is that that extra couple percent is totally expendable in most cases because you can get a $150 A64 in the 2.5-2.7 GHz range at which point it's overkill for most applications.

I know that not everyone here is a gamer, but many are. The point is that we evaluate our needs, comparing the cost in $ to the performance gain we will get. In most cases cheap and OC will easily prevail over adding $50 more for a better processor, or $50 per gig more for better RAM. However, if you feel that the cost / benefit analysis gives more benefit to the more expensive parts, then buy the more expensive parts. There is no ONE answer that fits every situation, but for most enthusiasts even, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to get a (maybe) 3% performance improvement for $50 per gig. Much of the overclocking and upgrading industry is hyped up about what amounts to very small overall improvements in real world applications. With the recent DDR500 article on AT, finally it is getting some pretty widespread publicity.
 
Originally posted by: furballi
The penalty with timing and memory divider is around 80MHz core speed. Add another 40MHz with the board. That's not a lot of performance when you factor in the additional $ you'll be spending on expensive RAM and motherboard.

Without benchmark applications, there is NO way the user could notice the 120MHz core speed penalty.

Looking at the recent PCIe board comparison that Anand did, it doesn't even look like there is a 3-5% difference between the boards, except the Biostar XGP version, so there might not even be the equivilant of a 40MHz hit.
I'm interested in the Nforce3 though. Just bought this AIW last month, so I'm looking for an AGP board. It's been since before the Nforce3 Ultra came out that I've seen a comparison on AGP s939 boards.
Sorry about this, planning on upgrading to s939 next month and I want to figure out what I should be trying to get so I can budget myself accordingly.
 
with the system in sig I bought pretty much "value everything" and it only cost me about $800 total.

O/C that thing to 2.6GHZ (stock cooling), 2.8GHZ when my XP-90 arrives and I have bought myself a highend computer for mid-range prices.

Oh and my "Value VX" Ram will do 240mhz without even raising the DRAM voltage past 3.00v. With 3.3v I'm hoping I can hit 250mhz or higher.

Compare how much 1GB of Value VX PC3200 is (I got mine for $106) and how much 1GB of DDR500 or DDR550 is.

The term "cheap" is relative. "Cheap" in the way you are using it infers poor quality. You can get very good quality products (check my sig A64 3000+ Venice, 1GB Value VX RAM, ATI Radeon X800XL, NEC 3520) at "a good price".

That's how I look at it.
 
Thanks Concillian,
As you put it, I'm doing a cost analysis.

I have enough memory available so that I can get my daughter setup with her new school system and get my s939 system going (when I get it) so that I can take my time to decide if I should:
1) Get more of the same
2) Go with 2GB, slower latency
3) Go with 1GB, faster memory

I'll probably be waiting until a few sites check into how memory performance affects multitasking on multi core CPU's, before making that decision.
 
Originally posted by: Matt2
with the system in sig I bought pretty much "value everything" and it only cost me about $800 total.

O/C that thing to 2.6GHZ (stock cooling), 2.8GHZ when my XP-90 arrives and I have bought myself a highend computer for mid-range prices.

Oh and my "Value VX" Ram will do 240mhz without even raising the DRAM voltage past 3.00v. With 3.3v I'm hoping I can hit 250mhz or higher.

Compare how much 1GB of Value VX PC3200 is (I got mine for $106) and how much 1GB of DDR500 or DDR550 is.

The term "cheap" is relative. "Cheap" in the way you are using it infers poor quality. You can get very good quality products (check my sig A64 3000+ Venice, 1GB Value VX RAM, ATI Radeon X800XL, NEC 3520) at "a good price".

That's how I look at it.

why does it matter how fast your ram goes if you cant get a 1:1 OC anyways. That 50 Mhz on the ram wont help much at all. But that is basically the system i would recommed to anyone trying to OC a s939.
 
My Corsair Value Select will do 275MHz FSB at 5:6 memory divider. VDIMM is set at 2.7V. If you go with an AMD 64 3200, then you may be able to hit +2.7GHz CPU core speed with a good CPU. I doubt that you will SEE any performance gain if you run the RAM at 1:1 memory divider.
 
In the past I've gotten the best motherboard and memory that I could afford and skimped on the CPU, with the intention of upgrading the CPU as it became affordable. This has helped when upgrading the CPU became more demanding of its platform.
 
Originally posted by: Pederv
I see a lot of people suggest getting cheap RAM "You'll only lose 3-5% in performace".
The motherboard of choice "You'll lose 3-5% at stock speeds, but it overclocks great!"
Heck, with those 2 choices you'll use 200MHz of your overclock just to get where you would be if you bought some better quality components!

Wouldn't quality components get you a better performing system?

Apparently money means nothing to you.
 
Originally posted by: mariok2006
Originally posted by: Matt2
with the system in sig I bought pretty much "value everything" and it only cost me about $800 total.

O/C that thing to 2.6GHZ (stock cooling), 2.8GHZ when my XP-90 arrives and I have bought myself a highend computer for mid-range prices.

Oh and my "Value VX" Ram will do 240mhz without even raising the DRAM voltage past 3.00v. With 3.3v I'm hoping I can hit 250mhz or higher.

Compare how much 1GB of Value VX PC3200 is (I got mine for $106) and how much 1GB of DDR500 or DDR550 is.

The term "cheap" is relative. "Cheap" in the way you are using it infers poor quality. You can get very good quality products (check my sig A64 3000+ Venice, 1GB Value VX RAM, ATI Radeon X800XL, NEC 3520) at "a good price".

That's how I look at it.

why does it matter how fast your ram goes if you cant get a 1:1 OC anyways. That 50 Mhz on the ram wont help much at all. But that is basically the system i would recommed to anyone trying to OC a s939.

I plan on going to at least 2.7GHZ (300x9)

at 300 HTT there is no RAM in the world that is going to let you use 1:1, so you're going to ahve to use a divider anyways.

Getting Ram that will do at least 250mhz will help you're performance a lot no matter what people say.

I would much rather get value RAM like the Value VX and run @ 250mhz than spend $10 less on value RAM that will only do 210mhz.

That is bang for your buck.
 
Originally posted by: Matt2
Originally posted by: mariok2006
Originally posted by: Matt2
with the system in sig I bought pretty much "value everything" and it only cost me about $800 total.

O/C that thing to 2.6GHZ (stock cooling), 2.8GHZ when my XP-90 arrives and I have bought myself a highend computer for mid-range prices.

Oh and my "Value VX" Ram will do 240mhz without even raising the DRAM voltage past 3.00v. With 3.3v I'm hoping I can hit 250mhz or higher.

Compare how much 1GB of Value VX PC3200 is (I got mine for $106) and how much 1GB of DDR500 or DDR550 is.

The term "cheap" is relative. "Cheap" in the way you are using it infers poor quality. You can get very good quality products (check my sig A64 3000+ Venice, 1GB Value VX RAM, ATI Radeon X800XL, NEC 3520) at "a good price".

That's how I look at it.

why does it matter how fast your ram goes if you cant get a 1:1 OC anyways. That 50 Mhz on the ram wont help much at all. But that is basically the system i would recommed to anyone trying to OC a s939.

I plan on going to at least 2.7GHZ (300x9)

at 300 HTT there is no RAM in the world that is going to let you use 1:1, so you're going to ahve to use a divider anyways.

Getting Ram that will do at least 250mhz will help you're performance a lot no matter what people say.

I would much rather get value RAM like the Value VX and run @ 250mhz than spend $10 less on value RAM that will only do 210mhz.

That is bang for your buck.

Maybe this will get you where you're going. Have to wait and see what the price and availablity will be.
http://www.patriotmem.com/company/news/newsp.jsp?source=5
 
Originally posted by: Pederv
Originally posted by: Matt2
Originally posted by: mariok2006
Originally posted by: Matt2
with the system in sig I bought pretty much "value everything" and it only cost me about $800 total.

O/C that thing to 2.6GHZ (stock cooling), 2.8GHZ when my XP-90 arrives and I have bought myself a highend computer for mid-range prices.

Oh and my "Value VX" Ram will do 240mhz without even raising the DRAM voltage past 3.00v. With 3.3v I'm hoping I can hit 250mhz or higher.

Compare how much 1GB of Value VX PC3200 is (I got mine for $106) and how much 1GB of DDR500 or DDR550 is.

The term "cheap" is relative. "Cheap" in the way you are using it infers poor quality. You can get very good quality products (check my sig A64 3000+ Venice, 1GB Value VX RAM, ATI Radeon X800XL, NEC 3520) at "a good price".

That's how I look at it.

why does it matter how fast your ram goes if you cant get a 1:1 OC anyways. That 50 Mhz on the ram wont help much at all. But that is basically the system i would recommed to anyone trying to OC a s939.

I plan on going to at least 2.7GHZ (300x9)

at 300 HTT there is no RAM in the world that is going to let you use 1:1, so you're going to ahve to use a divider anyways.

Getting Ram that will do at least 250mhz will help you're performance a lot no matter what people say.

I would much rather get value RAM like the Value VX and run @ 250mhz than spend $10 less on value RAM that will only do 210mhz.

That is bang for your buck.

Maybe this will get you where you're going. Have to wait and see what the price and availablity will be.
http://www.patriotmem.com/company/news/newsp.jsp?source=5


Wow, thanks for the link.

I think I'm ok with 250mhz on the RAM, sure as hell beats DDR400

That DDR600 will probably cost as much as 7800GTX for 2GB 🙂

Can you imagine the incredibly low yields that must be produced when trying to get to DDR600???
 
spending 300-800 for an exhaust gets you about 5hp for your little civic. that's about a 3% performance gain.

YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY.
 
Originally posted by: Matt2
Originally posted by: mariok2006
Originally posted by: Matt2
with the system in sig I bought pretty much "value everything" and it only cost me about $800 total.

O/C that thing to 2.6GHZ (stock cooling), 2.8GHZ when my XP-90 arrives and I have bought myself a highend computer for mid-range prices.

Oh and my "Value VX" Ram will do 240mhz without even raising the DRAM voltage past 3.00v. With 3.3v I'm hoping I can hit 250mhz or higher.

Compare how much 1GB of Value VX PC3200 is (I got mine for $106) and how much 1GB of DDR500 or DDR550 is.

The term "cheap" is relative. "Cheap" in the way you are using it infers poor quality. You can get very good quality products (check my sig A64 3000+ Venice, 1GB Value VX RAM, ATI Radeon X800XL, NEC 3520) at "a good price".

That's how I look at it.

why does it matter how fast your ram goes if you cant get a 1:1 OC anyways. That 50 Mhz on the ram wont help much at all. But that is basically the system i would recommed to anyone trying to OC a s939.

I plan on going to at least 2.7GHZ (300x9)

at 300 HTT there is no RAM in the world that is going to let you use 1:1, so you're going to ahve to use a divider anyways.

Getting Ram that will do at least 250mhz will help you're performance a lot no matter what people say.

I would much rather get value RAM like the Value VX and run @ 250mhz than spend $10 less on value RAM that will only do 210mhz.

That is bang for your buck.
Incorrect. The RAM in my sig is rated at 600mhz. With a boost in voltage, I can run it over 300 or at 300 2.5-4-3-5 1T 1:1

OCZ EL DDR PC-4800 Dual Channel Platinum
 
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