Why don't we want the President to be better than us?

[DealMonkey]

So now that we've established that being an elitist means having an arrogant attitude and by extension, talking down to everyone, can you conservo-bots please explain why Obama is an elitist? Examples, rants, whatever. Why is Obama an elitist and McCain is not?

TIA.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

why don't you hate the guts of GWB, he has no competence, never had but he is most certainly an arrogant sun of a bitch, IOW, he is elitist.

I do

I read a post of yours some time ago when you said that you'd vote for McCain as a person but would support Obama on the issues.

I felt exactly the same about that, i don't trust Obama, he seems like a sneaky little twit to me while McCain seems straightforward (It's very likely that i am wrong, i am a Brit in Afghanistan, i just know what little i have time to take part of in this)

Well then McCain had to go be a fucking moron and get Palin as a VP, i mean, for the fucking love of GOD, she's just about the worst of the very worst.

That bitch is fucking nuts.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
So now that we've established that being an elitist means having an arrogant attitude and by extension, talking down to everyone, can you conservo-bots please explain why Obama is an elitist? Examples, rants, whatever. Why is Obama an elitist and McCain is not?

TIA.

I'd say that neither of them are elitists.

Palin is most certainly an elitist though, but that comes with the territory for her kind, you can hardly be holier than thou without being elitist.

 

[Excelsior]

I felt exactly the same about that, i don't trust Obama, he seems like a sneaky little twit to me while McCain seems straightforward (It's very likely that i am wrong, i am a Brit in Afghanistan, i just know what little i have time to take part of in this)

This would be like me commenting on British politics. See, McCain kind of used to be straightforward (straight talk express and the whole thing) but that train derailed a while ago.

 

[XMan]

Nixon was extremely intelligent, IIRC. Didn't have much in the way of morality or character, but he was smart.

In other words there's more to the office than just raw intellect.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

McCain has realized that his straight talk express is not going to win him the Presidency. He's sold out, and that is why I cannot respect him.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: JS80
OP almost everyone in this country has a higher IQ than your unemployed actor ass, what is the problem?

Wow - personal attacks now?

I'm still offering to buy you a drink. Want to meet me at Barney's in WeHo?

He won't meet you.

He is one of the no profile Elitists that hate this country.



What's WeHo? Is that like SoHo here in New York but LA's version?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: JS80
OP almost everyone in this country has a higher IQ than your unemployed actor ass, what is the problem?

Wow - personal attacks now?

I'm still offering to buy you a drink. Want to meet me at Barney's in WeHo?

He won't meet you.

He is one of the no profile Elitists that hate this country.



What's WeHo? Is that like SoHo here in New York but LA's version?

West Hollywood.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I believe America's trademark independent streak coupled with a strong distrust of authority has morphed into a self-destructive hatred of all things intellectual. More and more Americans seem to want a president that is some normal joe they can have a beer with, someone that echews science, and eggheads of all disciplines. And quite frankly, it seems like Republicans and red-staters in general are the ones who really subscribe to this backwards "thought" process.

To me, this is the polar opposite of what we actually need as a country. We need a man of intelligence as President, not some dumbass yahoo who merely surrounds himself with men of intelligence.

I think America's trademark independent streak coupled with a strong distrust of authority makes people distrustful and annoyed with certain behaviors/personality traits, NOT a hatred of intellectualism... in fact I think most Americans appreciate and respect intelligence.

Great people like Jefferson and others were very smart (and rich) yet were not elitists in sense that's important to this debate because they didn't talk down to the people... rather they had faith in the people and built them up and showed tremendous respect for the masses. It's exactly what CAD said, an attitude.

This country is far too independent, proud, and just plain ornery to take the arrogance and belittlement from the Libs... and yes, saying us red-staters are anti-intellectual and backwards is just more of the same arrogance and belittlement.

Yes both sides like to tear down, but most of the reasoning on the Right revolves around how bad the lib ideas are, while much of the underlying foundation for Leftwing thought revolves around how dumb people who don't think like them are. It's a difference that's both subtle and substantial.

That's how I see it.

And how you see it is so very warped. In Jefferson's day the media was a totally different animal. Most of our opinion of Jefferson comes from what he wrote not what he said. So, you claiming he didn't talk down to people is a joke. The guy was a brilliant man and wrote well. I'd guess that a large number of the people bitching about elitism today would have trouble reading and fully comprehending a lot of what Jefferson wrote.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

I felt exactly the same about that, i don't trust Obama, he seems like a sneaky little twit to me while McCain seems straightforward (It's very likely that i am wrong, i am a Brit in Afghanistan, i just know what little i have time to take part of in this)

This would be like me commenting on British politics. See, McCain kind of used to be straightforward (straight talk express and the whole thing) but that train derailed a while ago.

You're very welcome to do so.

I think Blair is a traitor that should be charged with treason and sentenced accordingly, i think Brown is an idiot and when i vote i'll vote for the Tories.

What is your opinion?

I'm a military man, McCain gets an inherent respect from me because of what he did and how he served honorably even when faced with severe punishment.

Obama just strikes me as a career politician without any substance what so ever.

 

[manowar821]

I do, the problem is that they never are.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

And how you see it is so very warped. In Jefferson's day the media was a totally different animal. Most of our opinion of Jefferson comes from what he wrote not what he said. So, you claiming he didn't talk down to people is a joke. The guy was a brilliant man and wrote well. I'd guess that a large number of the people bitching about elitism today would have trouble reading and fully comprehending a lot of what Jefferson wrote.

:roll: Oh yeah, I have firsthand accounts of his conversations... wtf are you thinking?

If you don't understand what I'm saying, please don't reply to me.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Excelsior

And how you see it is so very warped. In Jefferson's day the media was a totally different animal. Most of our opinion of Jefferson comes from what he wrote not what he said. So, you claiming he didn't talk down to people is a joke. The guy was a brilliant man and wrote well. I'd guess that a large number of the people bitching about elitism today would have trouble reading and fully comprehending a lot of what Jefferson wrote.

:roll: Oh yeah, I have firsthand accounts of his conversations... wtf are you thinking?

If you don't understand what I'm saying, please don't reply to me.

There is nothing to understand because it is complete rubbish. You're the one suggesting that Jefferson was not an elitist because he didn't talk down to people...as if you knew. And none of his writings suggest that he purposefully wrote in a lesser fashion so as to not confuse or condescend. In his day there wasn't TV or radio news coverage. The political atmosphere was vastly different.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Excelsior

I felt exactly the same about that, i don't trust Obama, he seems like a sneaky little twit to me while McCain seems straightforward (It's very likely that i am wrong, i am a Brit in Afghanistan, i just know what little i have time to take part of in this)

This would be like me commenting on British politics. See, McCain kind of used to be straightforward (straight talk express and the whole thing) but that train derailed a while ago.

You're very welcome to do so.

I think Blair is a traitor that should be charged with treason and sentenced accordingly, i think Brown is an idiot and when i vote i'll vote for the Tories.

What is your opinion?

I'm a military man, McCain gets an inherent respect from me because of what he did and how he served honorably even when faced with severe punishment.

Obama just strikes me as a career politician without any substance what so ever.

I don't have one. I don't follow the climate much at all.

I can understand that, for sure. And even as many Obama supporters can respect his service, it hardly means he should be president simply because of that service.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Excelsior

I felt exactly the same about that, i don't trust Obama, he seems like a sneaky little twit to me while McCain seems straightforward (It's very likely that i am wrong, i am a Brit in Afghanistan, i just know what little i have time to take part of in this)

This would be like me commenting on British politics. See, McCain kind of used to be straightforward (straight talk express and the whole thing) but that train derailed a while ago.

You're very welcome to do so.

I think Blair is a traitor that should be charged with treason and sentenced accordingly, i think Brown is an idiot and when i vote i'll vote for the Tories.

What is your opinion?

I'm a military man, McCain gets an inherent respect from me because of what he did and how he served honorably even when faced with severe punishment.

Obama just strikes me as a career politician without any substance what so ever.

I don't have one. I don't follow the climate much at all.

I can understand that, for sure. And even as many Obama supporters can respect his service, it hardly means he should be president simply because of that service.

Then why the fuck did you bring it up?

If i was American i would vote for Obama, only because of Palin, she's fucked up beyond all recognition, i mean that literally. She's worse than Bush and Blair put together, she is really really REALLY fucked up.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Because I do. I want the president to have a brain the size of a soccer ball and an IQ so high they don't have a number for it yet. I want him to be better than me, my dumbass friends and you and your dumbass friends.

Since when did being "elite" become a bad thing?

Elite is an interesting descriptor IMHO.

I have nothing wrong with a President being more intelligent than myself, however I would put more into their staff and ability to work with people/organizations/nations and be a better leader than their sheer level of intelligence.

However I have a big problem with those who feel they are "elite", or superior to others which is what I often feel is the attitude of Obama and especially his wife.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
So now that we've established that being an elitist means having an arrogant attitude and by extension, talking down to everyone, can you conservo-bots please explain why Obama is an elitist? Examples, rants, whatever. Why is Obama an elitist and McCain is not?

TIA.

I'll try.

Everytime obama speaks carries a tone of "your too helpless and stupid for your own good, live by my ideals and I shall provide for you." For self made men and women that is offensive. That is the very definition of elitist...I should know, I have an elitist attitude.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
So you WANT a president like you? Someone who works a boring 9 to 5 job, gets home from work, eats a Hungry Man dinner, rubs one out to internet porn, goes to sleep in a puddle of his own scrum, wakes up and does it all over again?

That would be someone like you........and no, I'd rather not have that dude as my President.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Because I do. I want the president to have a brain the size of a soccer ball and an IQ so high they don't have a number for it yet. I want him to be better than me, my dumbass friends and you and your dumbass friends.

Since when did being "elite" become a bad thing?

Elite is an interesting descriptor IMHO.

I have nothing wrong with a President being more intelligent than myself, however I would put more into their staff and ability to work with people/organizations/nations and be a better leader than their sheer level of intelligence.

However I have a big problem with those who feel they are "elite", or superior to others which is what I often feel is the attitude of Obama and especially his wife.

Elite is not a title you assign for yourself, it's a title you can be given if others think you have earned it.

Elitism, on the other hand is just arrogance with a different name.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
So you WANT a president like you? Someone who works a boring 9 to 5 job, gets home from work, eats a Hungry Man dinner, rubs one out to internet porn, goes to sleep in a puddle of his own scrum, wakes up and does it all over again?

That would be someone like you........and no, I'd rather not have that dude as my President.

Wait, i thought you LIKED Bush?

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
So now that we've established that being an elitist means having an arrogant attitude and by extension, talking down to everyone, can you conservo-bots please explain why Obama is an elitist? Examples, rants, whatever. Why is Obama an elitist and McCain is not?

TIA.

I'll try.

Everytime obama speaks carries a tone of "your too helpless and stupid for your own good, live by my ideals and I shall provide for you." For self made men and women that is offensive. That is the very definition of elitist...I should know, I have an elitist attitude.

Too bad your attitude doesn't match reality.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Excelsior

And how you see it is so very warped. In Jefferson's day the media was a totally different animal. Most of our opinion of Jefferson comes from what he wrote not what he said. So, you claiming he didn't talk down to people is a joke. The guy was a brilliant man and wrote well. I'd guess that a large number of the people bitching about elitism today would have trouble reading and fully comprehending a lot of what Jefferson wrote.

:roll: Oh yeah, I have firsthand accounts of his conversations... wtf are you thinking?

If you don't understand what I'm saying, please don't reply to me.

There is nothing to understand because it is complete rubbish. You're the one suggesting that Jefferson was not an elitist because he didn't talk down to people...as if you knew. And none of his writings suggest that he purposefully wrote in a lesser fashion so as to not confuse or condescend. In his day there wasn't TV or radio news coverage. The political atmosphere was vastly different.

Let me break it down Barney style for you... if you read Jefferson (and his better biographies) you will come to understand that he had a great respect for the average man and a great faith -almost to naivety- in humankind's potential. In a sense, he is perhaps the greatest populist of all time. Someone like Hamilton was an elitist who admitted that he was, unlike Jefferson, who was an elitist who was always talking about 'The People' and complained bitterly of elites.

Of course Jefferson was an elite, he was a genius, and it showed in a number of ways. But that's not the kind of elitism I'm talking about here. Indeed "elitist" is an imperfect word, easily confused, but for lack of a better term it's the one I use. For as great and unique a person Jefferson was, his overriding attitude included a healthy appreciation and admiration of the common man.

The media has nothing to do with my belief and it's irrelevant to the argument... the fact you bring it up shows you have no real clue what I'm saying. I don't think many people have a problem with "the best and the brightest" leading the country. They have a problem with people who don't respect them and actively condescend to them yet still want to lead the country... or just as bad, people who don't respect them and actively condescend to them yet still want them to vote for their guy.

Jefferson saw, and most people today see democracy as a mechanism whereby the people would elect the best men and women among them. That's great... it's the way it should be. I'm not into "descriptive representation" where voters seek candidates who are as much as possible like themselves. However, when most people say "I'm looking for someone I can relate to" what they're really saying is "I'm looking for someone who doesn't see me as a moron."

Obama understands this to a degree... at a minimum he doesn't show utter disdain and scorn for small-town-America type folks, unlike a great many of his Liberal disciples across the country and on this forum who make sure their total contempt for rural/red state Americans is broadcasted loud and clear.

 

[BarneyFife]

The new trend is that Republicans look down on education. They love the dumb guy. Case in point, McCain and now Palin (obviously she's the dumb whore). Who doesn't want the guy at the top of their class at Harvard leading us? Instead we have some military guy who kept on crashing his airplanes and some trailer trash who took 8 years to get a communications degree. Wow. So shameful.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
The new trend is that Republicans look down on education. They love the dumb guy. Case in point, McCain and now Palin (obviously she's the dumb whore). Who doesn't want the guy at the top of their class at Harvard leading us? Instead we have some military guy who kept on crashing his airplanes and some trailer trash who took 8 years to get a communications degree. Wow. So shameful.

Classy... this should win over a few undecided moderates :roll: These are the people who complain loudest about politics and the system, yet only offer productive discussion like this gem. I've said it before and I say it again... we get exactly what we deserve.