why don't the big japanese 3 (honda, nissan, toyota) use forced induction?

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Doggiedog

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
12,780
5
81
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Jap = sounds racist. I'm Japanese.

I'm Japanese too and I agree. If you can spell Domestic or American, which both have the same amount of letters in them, you can spell Japanese.

Japanese people do not call each other Japs btw.

Anyway, back on topic.

I believe its because those companies have become so mainstream and their target audience so broad that to make an FI vehicle would be asking for higher service expenses. The average person wouldn't know not to start up a turbo right after turning it on or even buy a turbo timer. Those other cars you see like the WRX are really tailored towards specific audiences that know a bit about cars, IMO.

 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
25,074
4
0
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3


nitrous is the ultimate definition of "power on demand" (hit a little button and you have instant power)
Nitrous isn't forced induction ;)

and unless you're running a huge effing turbo on a tiny engine lag isn't that big of a deal...
Depends on what your definition of "big deal" is, many people like the power right there as soon as they mash the pedal, and every turbo car suffers from lag, just in varying degrees from one case to the next.

My car is turbo'd, it spools up almost instantaneously from any RPM (mitsu TD0413G snail).
Any RPM? That's an embellishment, cmon Flyermax ;)

I'll take FI over NA any day of the week. At least with FI you can turn up the boost and get more power.
Within the motor's limits. It's not as easy as just cranking the boost up and going unless you have something to manage your fuel and spark curves as well. Sure, you can have a motor tuned for say, 18psi, and then turn your boost down and you'll be fine, but going beyond that may be dangerous. I love turbos and all, but it's not as simple as cranking the boost and leaving it.
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
25,074
4
0
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: geno
Originally posted by: Lifer
Originally posted by: KhoiFather
Because they can make the same amount of HP without using FI. So what would you do, produce a FI engine to make 250HP or produce an N/A engine that makes 250HP? Hmmmmm... which would be more reliable and cost less to produce.....

why must ppl insist on quoting max hp figures. look at the whole curve.
and there's something more important than hp known as torque.

Take a look at the old Nissan 300ZX TT motor, it was a TT 3.0 whereas the new VQ in the 350Z is a 3.5 L unit with a very flat torque curve. I don't have any dyno charts off hand, but I'd be willing to bet that the torque of the 350Z is very sufficient compared to the old TT VG motor...

Perhaps, but the VG30DETT made more than enough HP and torque all across the powerband ;) 320HP ain't nuthin to sneeze at

300 ;) Again, about 10 HP away from what the VQ35 makes. If someone could come up with some stock tourque curves, that'd be great. I'm willing to bet the curves are comparible.
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: geno
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: geno
Originally posted by: Lifer
Originally posted by: KhoiFather
Because they can make the same amount of HP without using FI. So what would you do, produce a FI engine to make 250HP or produce an N/A engine that makes 250HP? Hmmmmm... which would be more reliable and cost less to produce.....

why must ppl insist on quoting max hp figures. look at the whole curve.
and there's something more important than hp known as torque.

Take a look at the old Nissan 300ZX TT motor, it was a TT 3.0 whereas the new VQ in the 350Z is a 3.5 L unit with a very flat torque curve. I don't have any dyno charts off hand, but I'd be willing to bet that the torque of the 350Z is very sufficient compared to the old TT VG motor...

Perhaps, but the VG30DETT made more than enough HP and torque all across the powerband ;) 320HP ain't nuthin to sneeze at

300 ;) Again, about 10 HP away from what the VQ35 makes. If someone could come up with some stock tourque curves, that'd be great. I'm willing to bet the curves are comparible.

No, it really did make 320HP, just like the 3000GT and most other supercars of that era. They were all rated at 280ps(276hp) but every single one of them put out at least 320HP if not 330 (Lancer Evo and Skyline come to mind).
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: geno
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3


nitrous is the ultimate definition of "power on demand" (hit a little button and you have instant power)
Nitrous isn't forced induction ;)

and unless you're running a huge effing turbo on a tiny engine lag isn't that big of a deal...
Depends on what your definition of "big deal" is, many people like the power right there as soon as they mash the pedal, and every turbo car suffers from lag, just in varying degrees from one case to the next.

My car is turbo'd, it spools up almost instantaneously from any RPM (mitsu TD0413G snail).
Any RPM? That's an embellishment, cmon Flyermax ;)

I'll take FI over NA any day of the week. At least with FI you can turn up the boost and get more power.
Within the motor's limits. It's not as easy as just cranking the boost up and going unless you have something to manage your fuel and spark curves as well. Sure, you can have a motor tuned for say, 18psi, and then turn your boost down and you'll be fine, but going beyond that may be dangerous. I love turbos and all, but it's not as simple as cranking the boost and leaving it.

Since when is nitrous not considered FI?
My turbo does spool up from *any* RPM, it's insanely quick-spooling. The 13G is a tiny turbo. It's the same turbo they use on the WRX (non-STI).
I know you can't just turn up the boost to your heart's content, but considering that there's no NA equivalent of upping the boost, I'd still go with FI.
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
25,074
4
0
Well I've never seen anything in terms of proof of higher than 300HP numbers in the American version. I remember the Supra and the 3000GT being rated for 320 if memory serves correct, but the 300ZX was behind them somewhat.

As for the Nitrous being Forced Induction - "Forced" means there's air being forcably pushed into the engine, something Nitrous doesn't do.

I bet there's limits to your motor's spooling up, take it uphill @ 1300 RPMs and mash the gas, what do you get for boost? ;)

but considering that there's no NA equivalent of upping the boost, I'd still go with FI
For tuning and upping power, Turbos are the way to go. But when it comes down to it, and tuning/modding is out of the picture, I'd rather have N/A power than Turbo power anyday.
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: geno
Well I've never seen anything in terms of proof of higher than 300HP numbers in the American version. I remember the Supra and the 3000GT being rated for 320 if memory serves correct, but the 300ZX was behind them somewhat.

Nope, the "big 3" super cars of the 90's (Supra, 3000GT, 300ZX) all had 320HP. I can see why you think the 300ZX would have 300hp though ;) It's a common misnomer, due to the name of the vehicle. I assure you, it really did have 320hp :)
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
I think it's funny that Mazda's turbocharged Miata only has 178hp.

Why? That's about what the Mazdaspeed Protege puts out...
Mazda isn't really about the whole "insane levels of power" thing... They're more of a power-to-weight ratio company that focuses on building light vehicles that have good weight distribution and handle well.
 

Doggiedog

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
12,780
5
81
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: geno
Well I've never seen anything in terms of proof of higher than 300HP numbers in the American version. I remember the Supra and the 3000GT being rated for 320 if memory serves correct, but the 300ZX was behind them somewhat.

Nope, the "big 3" super cars of the 90's (Supra, 3000GT, 300ZX) all had 320HP. I can see why you think the 300ZX would have 300hp though ;) It's a common misnomer, due to the name of the vehicle. I assure you, it really did have 320hp :)

I hope you are kidding. They were the 300s or 3000s bc they had 3.0 liter engines not 300HP.
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
25,074
4
0
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: geno
Well I've never seen anything in terms of proof of higher than 300HP numbers in the American version. I remember the Supra and the 3000GT being rated for 320 if memory serves correct, but the 300ZX was behind them somewhat.

Nope, the "big 3" super cars of the 90's (Supra, 3000GT, 300ZX) all had 320HP. I can see why you think the 300ZX would have 300hp though ;) It's a common misnomer, due to the name of the vehicle. I assure you, it really did have 320hp :)

It's
300
Trust Me ;)
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: geno
Well I've never seen anything in terms of proof of higher than 300HP numbers in the American version. I remember the Supra and the 3000GT being rated for 320 if memory serves correct, but the 300ZX was behind them somewhat.

Nope, the "big 3" super cars of the 90's (Supra, 3000GT, 300ZX) all had 320HP. I can see why you think the 300ZX would have 300hp though ;) It's a common misnomer, due to the name of the vehicle. I assure you, it really did have 320hp :)

I hope you are kidding. They were the 300s or 3000s bc they had 3.0 liter engines not 300HP.

You can't read, can you?
"It's a common misnomer, due to the name of the vehicle"
Do you understand what that sentence means?
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: geno
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: geno
Well I've never seen anything in terms of proof of higher than 300HP numbers in the American version. I remember the Supra and the 3000GT being rated for 320 if memory serves correct, but the 300ZX was behind them somewhat.

Nope, the "big 3" super cars of the 90's (Supra, 3000GT, 300ZX) all had 320HP. I can see why you think the 300ZX would have 300hp though ;) It's a common misnomer, due to the name of the vehicle. I assure you, it really did have 320hp :)

It's
300
Trust Me ;)

Fine, it's got 300hp :(
Every single Z owner I know has said it had 320hp stock though, guess they inflated their car's hp to compete with Supra and 3000GT owners ;)
 

Originally posted by: Buttzilla
Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Jap = sounds racist. I'm Japanese.
Good for you, now stop perpetuating racism you nob.

Jap is a racist term you ignorant noob.

And I think people nowadays are too easily offended. It was not used in a racist manner, so stop bitching.
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: FallenHero
Originally posted by: Buttzilla
Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Jap = sounds racist. I'm Japanese.
Good for you, now stop perpetuating racism you nob.

Jap is a racist term you ignorant noob.

And I think people nowadays are too easily offended. It was not used in a racist manner, so stop bitching.

It doesn't matter whether the person making the comment thinks it was racist, that's for the people whom the term refers to to decide.
 

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: FallenHero
Originally posted by: Buttzilla
Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Jap = sounds racist. I'm Japanese.
Good for you, now stop perpetuating racism you nob.

Jap is a racist term you ignorant noob.

And I think people nowadays are too easily offended. It was not used in a racist manner, so stop bitching.

It doesn't matter whether the person making the comment thinks it was racist, that's for the people whom the term refers to to decide.

Well then, I think the term "American" or "Human" is racist, because I am a god among men. I dont like being called something lower than me, so refer to me at "Your lordship" "Your holiness" or "God" from now on. kthxbye
 

DrNoobie

Banned
Mar 3, 2004
774
0
0
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Jap = sounds racist. I'm Japanese.

Then never call me, or other Scottish people, Scots. That's racist, and you'll hurt my poor little feelings, you oversensitive, prepubescent, whiny, perpetual bigot.

Aaaahhh. Sweet release. Don't take that personally, just needed to get that out somehow.
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: FallenHero
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: FallenHero
Originally posted by: Buttzilla
Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Jap = sounds racist. I'm Japanese.
Good for you, now stop perpetuating racism you nob.

Jap is a racist term you ignorant noob.

And I think people nowadays are too easily offended. It was not used in a racist manner, so stop bitching.

It doesn't matter whether the person making the comment thinks it was racist, that's for the people whom the term refers to to decide.

Well then, I think the term "American" or "Human" is racist, because I am a god among men. I dont like being called something lower than me, so refer to me at "Your lordship" "Your holiness" or "God" from now on. kthxbye

Typical white male response
rolleye.gif
(for the record, I'm a white male too)
People who have never been subject to racism don't tend to be too sympathetic to people of other races who have been subject to racism.
 

MacBaine

Banned
Aug 23, 2001
9,999
0
0
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: FallenHero
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: FallenHero
Originally posted by: Buttzilla
Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Jap = sounds racist. I'm Japanese.
Good for you, now stop perpetuating racism you nob.

Jap is a racist term you ignorant noob.

And I think people nowadays are too easily offended. It was not used in a racist manner, so stop bitching.

It doesn't matter whether the person making the comment thinks it was racist, that's for the people whom the term refers to to decide.

Well then, I think the term "American" or "Human" is racist, because I am a god among men. I dont like being called something lower than me, so refer to me at "Your lordship" "Your holiness" or "God" from now on. kthxbye

Typical white male response
rolleye.gif
(for the record, I'm a white male too)
People who have never been subject to racism don't tend to be too sympathetic to people of other races who have been subject to racism.

We also don't perpetuate it as much.
rolleye.gif