Why don't Muslin leaders condemn the actions of terrorists?

[Kibbo]

You know, I've heard many people say on these boards that there might be something fundamentally wrong with Islam. Often, this is supported by the fact that these people had never heard muslim leaders condemn the actions of terrorists.

I realized that I hadn't either, and so I began to wonder. I remember many Islamic leaders condemning 9/11, as well as the Bali bombing. But I havn't heard anything since then. So I used my best friend.

Google

Pay careful attention to this one:

Observer

Look at that, my faith in humanity restored by a simple Google.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Like I've said. If this were reported in the American Media, we'd find common grounds with our "enemies" It makes public opinion much harder to reconile with the "evil" arab imagery. Look how hard WWI and WWII propaganda worked to seperate America from her enemies. From showing "eccentric" Japanese customs to barbiac crimes being perputrated by the "Hun" it helped create a divide between us and them. We just have become far more sophisticated at this.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Like I've said. If this were reported in the American Media, we'd find common grounds with our "enemies" It makes public opinion much harder to reconile with the "evil" arab imagery. Look how hard WWI and WWII propaganda worked to seperate America from her enemies. From showing "eccentric" Japanese customs to barbiac crimes being perputrated by the "Hun" it helped create a divide between us and them. We just have become far more sophisticated at this.

Nice screen name, BTW. :roll:

The diff b/t us and them is that we don't kidnap, make propaganda videos of, and then behead our prisioners of war.

Hey, WAR is war and it is ugly. That's why it's WAR. I'm not saying prisioners are not "interrogated" for vital information. Don't kid yourself for a minute if you think American POWs are treated any better!

The capture, public humiliation for propaganda purposes and public beheadings of American AND American allied personnel are barbaric at best.

Please; nobody kid themselves w/Googled results as to the "pleasant and non-violent nature" of the Muslim religion. It's no less brutal now than the Christians were during the Crusades and the Inquisition.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Of course what was done is heinous, but it doesn't change the fact that demonizing the other side is easier than finding common ground.

BTW my name has nothing to do with religion, it's from a game called StarCraft/Brood War and one of the coolest units in the game is called a Zealot. Make quicker generalizations please.

Our propaganda is so sophisticated it is difficult to even notice it is propaganda.

 

[CanOWorms]

There were reports about Muslim leaders condemning terrorist actions after the whole Russian school incident thing. I think it was on most of the major news websites, and I'm pretty sure that I saw it on CNN, too. I'm pretty sure that it was posted on this forum, too.

 

[MichaelD]

Your name=whatever. Sorry I'm not so hip on the latest RPGs. I feel bad. <--sarcasm.


Anyway, sure, the USA uses propaganda!!! What successful business doesn't? There is a basic DIFFERENCE though; one you're intentionally not seeing, one I pointed out in my earlier response. That whole "public on tape beheading thing" :roll: A minor, but important detail, don't you think?

ANY country at war takes prisioners. ANY country at war that takes prisioners will attempt to extract information from said prisioners. Humans being human, not all survive the interrogation process.

Killing is killing. However, my country kills you...and privately burns your body, denying any existence of your capture.

Your country kills me...beheads me, live on Islamic I Hate The West TV, then drags my headless body thru the streets where my genitals are eaten by wolves.

Even you, in your blind and confused state, can see the slight difference here, no?

 

[Genx87]

Those nations have some growing up to do and it wont be easy. Watch or read anything about the time of the crusades, inquisitions, or the salem witch trials and it is unbelievable the similarities between what is accepted in Islamic culture and what Christians did several hundred years ago.

The problem is somehow convincing people that religion is great so long as you dont base your govt on it or let it run your govt policies.

 

[MichaelD]

Organized religion of any kind is evil, wrong, hypnotic and is for people that cannot think for themselves. That goes for ALL of them. Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Tree Worshipping, Wiccan, you name it.

 

[Genx87]

k

 

[BarneyFife]

The same reason the pope didn't condemn Timothy McVeigh.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: MichaelD

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Like I've said. If this were reported in the American Media, we'd find common grounds with our "enemies" It makes public opinion much harder to reconile with the "evil" arab imagery. Look how hard WWI and WWII propaganda worked to seperate America from her enemies. From showing "eccentric" Japanese customs to barbiac crimes being perputrated by the "Hun" it helped create a divide between us and them. We just have become far more sophisticated at this.

Nice screen name, BTW. :roll:

The diff b/t us and them is that we don't kidnap, make propaganda videos of, and then behead our prisioners of war.

Hey, WAR is war and it is ugly. That's why it's WAR. I'm not saying prisioners are not "interrogated" for vital information. Don't kid yourself for a minute if you think American POWs are treated any better!

The capture, public humiliation for propaganda purposes and public beheadings of American AND American allied personnel are barbaric at best.

Please; nobody kid themselves w/Googled results as to the "pleasant and non-violent nature" of the Muslim religion. It's no less brutal now than the Christians were during the Crusades and the Inquisition.

No, you just humiliate them, anally rape them, force them to sexual acts and kill them and film it.

Remember Abu Ghraib? Get doen from that high horse before you hurt yourself.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Organized religion of any kind is evil, wrong, hypnotic and is for people that cannot think for themselves. That goes for ALL of them. Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Tree Worshipping, Wiccan, you name it.

Ad you are stupid, organized religion FORCED on others is wrong, having faith is not.

But since you were born stupid and grew up stupid you will never get that.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Beheading is a fairly heinous act. It gets far more attention than a simple gunshot or hanging. This is probably why this paticular act of execution was chosen.

Plus, the insurgents wish to make their cause known and instill fear.

It is still a despicable act that can not be condone no matter the circumstances. I am merely saying that there is method to the madness.

 

[sandorski]

It appears to me that Islam is quite a de-centralized Religion, aka it has no Pope or other singular Head. As such the Leadership is quite large in number and likely quite varied in opinion. That also makes it difficult to get a finger on the pulse of the "Muslim World" as it's far from the Monolithic Society that many here(P&amp;N) seem to view it as.

 

[0marTheZealot]

sandorski is also correct in his assumption above (although Shi'ism is more centralized (aka Iran and parts of Iraq) than Sunnism (the rest of the world)).

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Kibbo
You know, I've heard many people say on these boards that there might be something fundamentally wrong with Islam. Often, this is supported by the fact that these people had never heard muslim leaders condemn the actions of terrorists.

I realized that I hadn't either, and so I began to wonder. I remember many Islamic leaders condemning 9/11, as well as the Bali bombing. But I havn't heard anything since then. So I used my best friend.

Google

Pay careful attention to this one:

Observer

Look at that, my faith in humanity restored by a simple Google.

They decry this act, but also admit to a deeper problem:

Al-Rashed said that Muslims will not be able to cleanse their image unless 'we admit the scandalous facts... Our terrorist sons are an end-product of our corrupted culture. The picture is humiliating, painful and harsh for all of us.'

IMO, Islam is making the natural progression that it seems major religions make: a few centuries to figure out what they're all about, then a massive wave of violence. The Jews did it, Christians did it. I'm not familiar enough with Hindu history, but I would imagine that similar things have occurred. The more higher-up Muslim leaders that speak out, the better the chance of stemming the tide before it washes over everyone.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: MichaelD

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Like I've said. If this were reported in the American Media, we'd find common grounds with our "enemies" It makes public opinion much harder to reconile with the "evil" arab imagery. Look how hard WWI and WWII propaganda worked to seperate America from her enemies. From showing "eccentric" Japanese customs to barbiac crimes being perputrated by the "Hun" it helped create a divide between us and them. We just have become far more sophisticated at this.

Nice screen name, BTW. :roll:

The diff b/t us and them is that we don't kidnap, make propaganda videos of, and then behead our prisioners of war.

Hey, WAR is war and it is ugly. That's why it's WAR. I'm not saying prisioners are not "interrogated" for vital information. Don't kid yourself for a minute if you think American POWs are treated any better!

The capture, public humiliation for propaganda purposes and public beheadings of American AND American allied personnel are barbaric at best.

Please; nobody kid themselves w/Googled results as to the "pleasant and non-violent nature" of the Muslim religion. It's no less brutal now than the Christians were during the Crusades and the Inquisition.

No, you just humiliate them, anally rape them, force them to sexual acts and kill them and film it.

Remember Abu Ghraib? Get doen from that high horse before you hurt yourself.

Sounds a little like the UN, too.

 

[imported_Condor]

Abu Ghraib was a fraternity initiation compared to what American POW's have had to suffer throughout history. The stupid terrorist don't even do the beheading correctly. The Japs, British and French did a much cleaner job throughout history. Like everything else the terrorists do, they just can't seem to get anything right. What they seem to overlook is that terrorism invokes rage, not terror. Talk about misnomers! The ultimate result of what is happening today will be a mass slaughter of Arabs. It takes a while to get the weaker members of civilization in a rage, but they are getting closer by the day. Maybe the Nazis were right and just had the wrong group. Every time someone befriends the terrorists, they do something awful to them. You just can't continue to make the mistakes they make without an eventual evening of the score. I sure hope I am not there when that happens.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Condor
Abu Ghraib was a fraternity initiation compared to what American POW's have had to suffer throughout history. The stupid terrorist don't even do the beheading correctly. The Japs, British and French did a much cleaner job throughout history. Like everything else the terrorists do, they just can't seem to get anything right. What they seem to overlook is that terrorism invokes rage, not terror. Talk about misnomers! The ultimate result of what is happening today will be a mass slaughter of Arabs. It takes a while to get the weaker members of civilization in a rage, but they are getting closer by the day. Maybe the Nazis were right and just had the wrong group. Every time someone befriends the terrorists, they do something awful to them. You just can't continue to make the mistakes they make without an eventual evening of the score. I sure hope I am not there when that happens.

No, the Nazis were wrong.

 

[0roo0roo]

well yea the nazi's were wrong, but the arab states were at their side and never punished for it.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well yea the nazi's were wrong, but the arab states were at their side and never punished for it.

Doesn't invasion and occupation by the Allies count as punishment? Iraq and Iran both suffered that fate, while Egypt, Palestine, Jordan, and Syria were all European colonies throughout the war. The Saudis played nice with the Americans, so got off fairly well.

 

[b0mbrman]

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...0848&amp;enterthread=y

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Condor
Abu Ghraib was a fraternity initiation compared to what American POW's have had to suffer throughout history. The stupid terrorist don't even do the beheading correctly. The Japs, British and French did a much cleaner job throughout history. Like everything else the terrorists do, they just can't seem to get anything right. What they seem to overlook is that terrorism invokes rage, not terror. Talk about misnomers! The ultimate result of what is happening today will be a mass slaughter of Arabs. It takes a while to get the weaker members of civilization in a rage, but they are getting closer by the day. Maybe the Nazis were right and just had the wrong group. Every time someone befriends the terrorists, they do something awful to them. You just can't continue to make the mistakes they make without an eventual evening of the score. I sure hope I am not there when that happens.

Terrorism is our word for what they do. They want your rage. They want us in Iraq. We do what they want.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Kibbo
You know, I've heard many people say on these boards that there might be something fundamentally wrong with Islam. Often, this is supported by the fact that these people had never heard muslim leaders condemn the actions of terrorists.

I realized that I hadn't either, and so I began to wonder. I remember many Islamic leaders condemning 9/11, as well as the Bali bombing. But I havn't heard anything since then. So I used my best friend.

Google

Pay careful attention to this one:

Observer

Look at that, my faith in humanity restored by a simple Google.

Pay even closer attention to that one:

Even the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's biggest Islamic group, condemned the bloody siege in Beslan. Its leader, Mohammed Mahdi Akef, said that kidnappings may be justified but killings are not. He added: 'What happened is not jihad [holy war] because Islam obligates us to respect the souls of human beings; it is not about taking them away.

iow, terrorism is OK (in the name of "jihad"), it's just the actual killing of children that was considered bad. Sounds as if it's a statement of disassociation from the action because they don't want the bad PR and image problem.

And here's a standard tactic. Let's blame the Jews:

Ali Abdullah, an Islamic scholar in Bahrain who follows the ultra-conservative Salafi stream of Islam, also condemned the school attack as 'unIslamic'. However, he insisted Muslims were not involved and revived an old conspiracy theory: 'I have no doubt that this is the work of the Israelis, who want to tarnish the image of Muslims.'

Making statements such as that does little for the image of Muslims, Ali.

And look at this at the end:

His extraordinary critique was echoed by Ahmed Bahgat, an Egyptian Islamist. Writing in the pro-government newspaper, Al-Ahram , he said hostage-takers in Russia and Iraq are only harming Islam. 'If all the enemies of Islam united and decided to harm it... they wouldn't have ruined and harmed its image as much as the sons of Islam have done by their stupidity, miscalculations and misunderstanding.' Horrifying images of the dead and wounded students 'showed Muslims as monsters who are fed by the blood of children and the pain of their families'.

They seem more concerned about their own image than the actual deaths of children and the atrocities committed. They try to claim Muslims did not do this yet it's well known the Chechnyan separatists are in fact primarily Muslim and are also the founding region of al Qaeda.

Sorry, Kibbo. I don't think that article does anything to back up your contention.

 

[Sultan]

TastesLikeChicken

iow, terrorism is OK (in the name of "jihad"), it's just the actual killing of children that was considered bad. Sounds as if it's a statement of disassociation from the action because they don't want the bad PR and image problem.

And here's a standard tactic. Let's blame the Jews:

Since when is kidnapping=terrorism??? Kidnappings happen here at home. Do you call the Christians or the Jews or the Buddhists terrorists?

They seem more concerned about their own image than the actual deaths of children and the atrocities committed. They try to claim Muslims did not do this yet it's well known the Chechnyan separatists are in fact primarily Muslim and are also the founding region of al Qaeda.

Yes, I would be concerned about the image of my faith, since I was not involved in the action that resulted in those deaths. Chechnyans may follow the Islamic faith but Chechnyans are fighting for independence of Chechnya, which can only in your own perverted mind be associated with a religious action.

What do you make of this:
Link

So by the above, do you infer that all Christians (the major religion of Russia) are rapists and murderers and even turn a blind eye to those who commit such actions?