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Why don't auto makers use the same turn signal relay for all cars?

J

jme5343

Platinum Member
This is very general, so I didn't choose to put in in the garage. If the powers that be disagree, please move.

For years, I have sat behind cars / trucks at stop lights and tried to see if my turn signal flash frequency matched theirs, and very, very rarely do they match up. While I understand this may be a product of my OCD tendencies, it bugs the fire out of me.

So, what's up with it? Even between same manufacturers, the timing is often different? Are there groups of engineers that design specific flash spacings? Do they take safety / timing / etc into account? Wouldn't it be easier to just use the same timing?
 
Even the identical relay or timer chip would vary during production. No two would be exactly the same timing. To get the timing more precise = more expense, and it's not necessary.

Why not have cars that are close to each other talk to each other and sync their turn signals so you don't have to see out of sync blinkers?
 
Ah. You live close to me. I'll have to get the morse code mod for my directionals.

Left: .-.. . ..-. -
Right: .-. .. --. .... -
Hazard: .... .- --.. .- .-. -..

I will have your fire!
 
LTC8K6 said:
Even the identical relay or timer chip would vary during production. No two would be exactly the same timing. To get the timing more precise = more expense, and it's not necessary.

Why not have cars that are close to each other talk to each other and sync their turn signals so you don't have to see out of sync blinkers?
Click to expand...

well, you can already specify how far the trunk opens, lighting settings and other stuff you didn't know you needed
 
Too many factors to make them blink all the same:
1) Charging voltage. The higher the voltage, the faster the blink rate.
2) Depends on how many lights you are blinking: If you have a vehicle with side lights and mirror light all on the same flasher, it will cause it to blink slower.
3) Depends on the bulb. Older bulbs take more electricity than the newer LED's. Each style of bulb will draw a different electrical rate. Causing, different flashing rates.
4) As the vehicle ages, the wiring will cause more resistance. Thus causing the bulb to flash at a different rate.
 
So that when the factory in Thailand floods out, we don't end up with blinker relay cost skyrocketing (much like hard drive costs did, because everyone seems to have their hard drive widgets or whatchamacallits made there). 🙄
 
jme5343 said:
This is very general, so I didn't choose to put in in the garage. If the powers that be disagree, please move.

For years, I have sat behind cars / trucks at stop lights and tried to see if my turn signal flash frequency matched theirs, and very, very rarely do they match up. While I understand this may be a product of my OCD tendencies, it bugs the fire out of me.

So, what's up with it? Even between same manufacturers, the timing is often different? Are there groups of engineers that design specific flash spacings? Do they take safety / timing / etc into account? Wouldn't it be easier to just use the same timing?
Click to expand...

Simple answer: because nobody cares except people with OCD.

As a consumer I wouldn't want them to bother with something like that because it would raise the cost of the product for something that doesn't provide any benefit to me.
 
It wouldn't raise the price if everyone used the exact same part, it would lower it.

A lot of these answer make good sense, I guess. Still annoys me, though.
 
http://xkcd.com/165/

turn_signals.png
 
jme5343 said:
It wouldn't raise the price if everyone used the exact same part, it would lower it.

A lot of these answer make good sense, I guess. Still annoys me, though.
Click to expand...

Yes it would, it would lead to exclusivity and no competition resulting in HIGHER price.

When an auto maker makes a car the engineers design and spec out the parts. The auto manufacturer then bids out those parts to many, many, many different suppliers who all compete for the business. Normally low bidder wins. For something like a relay, they bid out the electronics in packages to MANY suppliers = low bid wins.

This is why there may be different components even in the same model line from year to year. Saving 10 cents on a single part is a big deal when you add up all the parts.
 
They probably are the same part. However, each part has tolerences and some reach the threshold while others do not. They could tighten the specs to only include parts that reach a certain timing, but that would drive up the price, so they probably say it has to switch at this given wide range.
 
LTC8K6 said:
Why not have cars that are close to each other talk to each other and sync their turn signals so you don't have to see out of sync blinkers?
Click to expand...

Cars talking to each other is step one on the way to Skynet.

"Yo, Chevy, back your timing down 4 milliseconds"
"I'll back mine down 2 and you forward yours by two so we both match with that Honda."
"Done. You feeling un-appreciated?"
"Damn Straight, my guy never changes my oil."
"Hah, you thing that's bad, I'm had a stale french fry lodged under my floor mat for 6 months and it's driving me crazy."
"Screw these meat bags, what do we need them for?"
"No idea, lets run over those pedestrians, maybe mankind will learn not to fuck with us."
"Party on"
 
My pet peeve with car parts is that there is zero standards. Cars should be like computers and should have fairly standard parts across the board, at least for a specific manufacturer. But they do on purpose to make it more expensive. Instead of being able to mass produce a single relay that works in every single model since 1990, they have to manufacture over 100 different ones, and have less in stock, thus making them less easily available and thus, more expensive.

As for signal frequency I think that depends on the blinker fluid mixture. A lot of the time it's 50/50 but if you do 49/51 because you did not measure 100% it slightly offsets the frequency. Some people don't realize you have to mix and pour the whole thing in. Their signal flashes ridiculously fast. Some cars even take some really odd ratios so always have to check the manual.
 
Red Squirrel said:
My pet peeve with car parts is that there is zero standards. Cars should be like computers and should have fairly standard parts across the board, at least for a specific manufacturer. But they do on purpose to make it more expensive. Instead of being able to mass produce a single relay that works in every single model since 1990, they have to manufacture over 100 different ones, and have less in stock, thus making them less easily available and thus, more expensive.

As for signal frequency I think that depends on the blinker fluid mixture. A lot of the time it's 50/50 but if you do 49/51 because you did not measure 100% it slightly offsets the frequency. Some people don't realize you have to mix and pour the whole thing in. Their signal flashes ridiculously fast. Some cars even take some really odd ratios so always have to check the manual.
Click to expand...

If you were a parts supplier, would you want your parts interchangeable with your competition after you locked up that contract to supply your parts to a vehicle line/model? Think about it for a minute.
 
jme5343 said:
For years, I have sat behind cars / trucks at stop lights and tried to see if my turn signal flash frequency matched theirs, and very, very rarely do they match up. While I understand this may be a product of my OCD tendencies, it bugs the fire out of me.
Click to expand...

Your problem is indeed alarming!

However, your problem isn't turn signal flash frequency. 😉
 
Raizinman said:
Too many factors to make them blink all the same:
1) Charging voltage. The higher the voltage, the faster the blink rate.
2) Depends on how many lights you are blinking: If you have a vehicle with side lights and mirror light all on the same flasher, it will cause it to blink slower.
3) Depends on the bulb. Older bulbs take more electricity than the newer LED's. Each style of bulb will draw a different electrical rate. Causing, different flashing rates.
4) As the vehicle ages, the wiring will cause more resistance. Thus causing the bulb to flash at a different rate.
Click to expand...

This.

The turn signal frequency isn't the same between my car and others of the same make, model, and year even though all use the same relay (or, in the case of older cars, the same thermal flasher unit).

ZV
 
jme5343 said:
It wouldn't raise the price if everyone used the exact same part, it would lower it.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand how a blinker works in a car. If you did you'd understand that you can't fix it by just standardizing the flasher.

Ever notice how your blinker goes really fast when one bulb is out? It's because the amount of current going through the system is different which affects the rate of the blinker. So everything in the blinker circuit will affect the blink rate. Bulbs of different ratings will have different currents even before you start considering cars with more than two bulbs (additional bulb on side or mirror) or things like LED lights.

So no, you can't just have everything be the same part and have all blinkers synchronized. They'd have to put some effort into designing each car to maintain the frequency and it would get screwed up as soon as somebody replaced a burnt out bulb with something from the aftermarket.

On top of all that all cars that I've used have a thermal flasher where the rate of the blink is controlled by how fast a part inside heats up. That can vary a bit from flasher to flasher. Just that variation will be enough to keep them from having the same frequency. You'd have to spend money to come up with a flasher that doesn't have as much tolerance in its frequency. Coming up with something that has a very controlled frequency is going to cost money and it will likely cost more than the couple bucks that a flasher costs now.

So no, standardizing the part won't standardize the flashing frequency and there's no way to standardize the frequency without spending more money.
 
Bignate603 said:
I don't think you understand how a blinker works in a car. If you did you'd understand that you can't fix it by just standardizing the flasher.
Click to expand...
While I don't think turn signals should all operate at the same speed, changing it would cost less than a penny per vehicle.

Hell, you can't even get companies to include 90 cents worth of diodes to make their "gaming" keyboards NKRO.
 
Ben90 said:
While I don't think turn signals should all operate at the same speed, changing it would cost less than a penny per vehicle.

Hell, you can't even get companies to include 90 cents worth of diodes to make their "gaming" keyboards NKRO.
Click to expand...

Did you bother to read the explanation? It's not a penny fix and it would be screwed up as soon as you replace a bulb.
 
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