Why doesn't AMD just license their chipset designs to VIA for free?

[Modus]

I was just thinking that it's so inefficient for AMD, who knows better than anyone the ins and outs of chipset design for their own CPU's, to design a perfectly good chipset like the 750 or the 760 and then just let it sit there while VIA goes nuts trying to copy it and bring it to market quickly.

Why can't AMD just give the complete AMD 760 design to VIA for free and tell them "go make lots"? It would free up VIA from wasting time reinventing the wheel, it would free up AMD from wasting time and fab space that could be better spent on more profitable stuff like CPU's and flash ROM, and it would give customers the assurance that they're really getting a total CPU/chipset solution designed by one company.

We've seen something similar in the past, only in revserse. AMD actually licensed VIA's VP2 Socket 7 chipset and called it the AMD 640.

So why doesn't VIA make a request, or offer a token small fee, for AMD's chipset designs? Could it be any of these:

Is there perhaps already an unwritten agreement that AMD will lend VIA any expertise and assitance necessary to complete a chipset product for an AMD platform? Considering the delay in VIA's DDR Athlon chipset, and the lack of coordination with AMD on the KX133/KT133 revision, this doesn't appear to be the case.

Is VIA too proud for such an arangement?

Does AMD not want to give away any secrets to a company that might one day challenge them in the CPU industry? This is hard to believe, considering that VIA's forays into the CPU world have been a total joke.

Does AMD want to keep VIA desinging the chipsets so that, if any major chipset issue arises, they can dodge the blame? Considering VIA's tremendous success with stability and performance on AMD platforms, I doubt they would be worried.

I don't know. Can some one shed some light?

Modus

 

[subhuman]

You do realize that the southbridge of the AMD760 chipset is the VIA 686B chip, which has onboard ATA/100, right?

I dunno, I really wish SOMEONE would clue VIA in as to how to make a decent chipset, seeing as they have probably the largest chipset market share currently (just guessing). It's frusterating having such an awesome chip like the Thunderbird being tied down by the mediocre designs VIA comes up with.

The flaws that I know about are the lack of working AGP 4X (small importance to overall performance, but still, if you advertise it, it should work, right?), horrible out-of-the-box memory bandwidth (yes, there are tweaks, but you don't have to do them on an intel chipset and not everyone knows about them), and finally, the dreaded lack of PCI Bandwidth (is that even the right term?). This problem, PCI Bandwidth (if that's even the right term) will keep me and any serious user who pushes any PCI card to it's limits (read: Realtime audio creation, realtime-video-creation-utilizing-a-PCI-card) far, far away from any product with the VIA name. And trust me, I would love to buy a VIA board. It's cheaper than an intel, it's the only decent chipset for Tbirds currently, and Tbirds, without a doubt, knock the socks of any Intel chip.

Unfortunately, a computer is STILL a sum of all the parts. And all the parts fit together on a motherboard, which is governed by a chipset.

VIA, please, get your chipsets right. Or, if they are already right from a hardware perspective, make them somewhat optimized out of the box. I STILL HAVENT FOUND A SOLUTION TO THE PCI BANDWIDTH PROBLEM. Frusteratingly, most gamers and MS office users won't run into this problem, and as this seems to be about 99% of users, it leaves me with no choice but to buy Intel.... .



Edit: changed horrible to to mediocre. horrible FOR ME, totally fine for most people it seems. Please note that I could care less who makes the parts, as long as they work together for a total solution.

 

[beat mania]

Nothing's free, boy.

 

[Modus]

subhuman,

<<I dunno, I really wish SOMEONE would clue VIA in as to how to make a decent chipset>>

If you think VIA doesn't make decent chipsets, you're then one who needs a clue. Every single VIA chipset of the modern era has been a solid, stable performer. Well made VIA motherboards are just as stable as well made Intel boards.

<<The flaws that I know about are the lack of working AGP 4X>>

What are you talking about? There is one (1) issue with a bug in nVidia's Detonator 3 drivers that prevents some systems from using AGP 4x. But the feature is there and it works in the vast majority of cases where video card manufacturers write properly compatible drivers. Regardless, it's a marketting gimick that yields no real world benefit whatsoever.

<<horrible out-of-the-box memory bandwidth>>

Just because memory bandwidth is lower than AMD or Intel chipsets doesn't make it horrible. It's certainly not enough to hobble VIA's chipsets in real world performance, as shown by various reviews including this one at Firing Squad.

<<and finally, the dreaded lack of PCI Bandwidth>>

What? I've never heard of such a thing. You're either getting your facts mixed up, or your harping on a theoretical issue that we've seen to have no bearing on real world performance.

<<This problem, PCI Bandwidth (if that's even the right term) will keep me and any serious user who pushes any PCI card to it's limits (read: Realtime audio creation, realtime-video-creation-utilizing-a-PCI-card) far, far away from any product with the VIA name.>>

Oh, brother. Don't tell me: you bought a VIA board for a DV system, something didn't work right, and some one told you it was because VIA chipsets have bad PCI bandwidth. So then you got an Intel system and it magically worked, so you decided it must have been the Intel chipset that fixed everything. Please.

You really don't know what you're talking about. VIA chipsets can and do perform competitively in any real world application, including &quot;realtime video creation utilizing a PCI card.&quot; Just ask around and I'll bet there's a dozen people on this forum who use a VIA board with a Firewire card to edit digital video.

<<VIA, please, get your chipsets right.>>

Oh please. There is nothing to get right. VIA's chipset are fine. So stable, in fact, that we're relying on a VIA board (KT133 Thunderbird) to run these very AnandTech forums that we're using to communicate.

It's a dangerous, Intel-favoring myth that VIA's chipsets are buggy or incompatible. In reality, a simple software driver (less than what's required for the i815, BTW) is all it takes for rock solid stability and top notch performance on a VIA board. Believe me, I've built and supported dozens of them. There's nothing wrong.

Now back to the topic at hand. Why doesn't AMD give VIA their chipset designs for free?

Modus

 

[Rectalfier]

When things are free it's hard to get money, money and mo' money.

And like you said, Via's chipsets are pretty good nowadays, the KT133A is almost as fast as the 760 without the DDR. Pisses me off that Via didn't release the KT133 with built-in 133 bus speed support.

 

[subhuman]

PCI Bandwidth issue


For normal people, the VIA chipset is great, I'm sure. But, after many different VIA boards, Thunderbird, and P3, I have come to the conclusion that there is something wrong with the way VIA implemented the PCI bus timings (or, something in the VIA southbridge).

Like I said, it is frusterating to me, since most people don't seemm to have any idea what I'm talking about. I *have* asked everyone on this board for help in resolving this issue, and have went out above and beyond the call of duty to get to the source of the problem.

I have some serious hardware here, visit the Creamware website and read about the SCOPE and Pulsar audio cards. The SCOPE card is a $3500 audio card, the Pulsar a $1200 audio card. Together they are a seriously beefy audio system that really push every aspect of a computer to it's limits.

I am a very serious hardware user, and I build lots of computers (specifically for audio). If you follow the link above, you'll see the issues I'm talking about, complete with links to audio card companies specifically stating the issues.

If you can help me find a solution, I will gladly retract my comments, and send you a free gift, and trust me, it'll be better than a couple of cooling fans. Thanks for upping the ante, now, stop critising me and let's see if there is a solution to the problem, eh?

But back to the topic, it's probably cash as already stated. Please leave the flames at the door...