Question Why does the overall gaming GPU market treat AMD like they have AIDS?

[VirtualLarry]

I guess I get the (sub-liminal) "The way it's meant to be played" ads from NVidia, along with the recurring FUD tropes about "AMD drivers", but I honestly don't get the sales disparity, especially for the price.

I've owned both NVidia-powered as well as AMD powered GPUs, and IMHO, AMD is (generally) just as good. Maybe 99% as good.

Edit: And I think that there's something to be said about the viability of AMD technologies, when they're in both major console brands.

 

[Leeea]

I never said anything wasn't stable. I'm saying that I can enter let's say 800 mV value and AMD software will apply nothing lower than 850mV. It's probably not a broken feature, but annoying limitation that wasn't disclosed anywhere. And my card most likely can go bellow that limit in lower power states.

So your overclocking
everything is stable
but the drivers are broken

so you have all sorts of issues that are all the drivers fault.


Have you considered turning the overclock off?

 

[Leeea]

Well yes, but also no. On launch AMD said that they will make some partial acceleration feature functional, so that GPU helps CPU to decode VP9. That hardly happened. Fun thing is that forcing VP9 decoding through DXVA actually works, but power usage sucks. It was just typical Raja bullshit from that time to massively overstate HW capabilities and then sell stuff based on hope.

Your just confused.

While the unified video decoder did support video decoding for some types of video back on the rx500 series, vp9 was never one of them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder

Your confusing vp9 with the other video codecs it does do, like H265, H264, vc1, wmv9, h263, h262.


Vp9 was never supported until VCN, which shows up first in integrated graphics, and then in the rx5000 series and later.



Not that any of this matters, even CPUs considered complete crap 4 years ago had no issues decoding vp9:

https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=120569

The problem here is not with the hardware.

 

[Leeea]

Well, that's really disappointing. 8k at only 30 fps. It should matter more for you, because if you have 4k monitor or even 1440p monitor, YT's bitrate for 60 fps videos is bad and forcing 4k or 8k videos gives you a lot more bitrate, therefore better video output quality, especially in motion. YT is very skimpy with bitrate, meanwhile GPUs still seemingly can't handle high res (8K or 16K) decoding very well. Not to mention that YT is super heavy to run for no good reason. My other PC can decode BD quality 4k60 video with Athlon X4 870K in SW mode only, yet in YT it can barely handle 1080p60 by itself.

Even on 8k videos youtube only allows the users to select a max of 4k on a 1440p monitor. At least, that is what it shows for me. Youtube premium subscriber here to.

So the whole 8k video thing is not particularly relevant for 1440p users.


As for 8k 60 fps playback, it seems the fix is the same for both AMD and Nvidia:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/jqfuhi

( in short, chrome messed up the implementation )

Apparently the go to solution is just to disable hardware GPU decoding for all GPUs rather then futzing around. Although the above reddit link does seem to have a solution for windows users.

 

[Captante]

Youtube in general just works better at lower resolutions anyway and their version of "4k" ain't great under pretty much the best of circumstances. (friends high-end gaming PC and LG OLED 4k)

Even @ 1440p/165hz things can get a little "sketchy" and it really seems like the closer you stay to 1080p/60hz maximum the "happier" Youtube is.

 

[The red spirit]

If you put half the effort into optimising your system you did into writing that last post I'm pretty sure you would have figured out your PC issues months ago.

Fortunately it's not my problem.... best of luck.




EDIT: Btw a buddy of mine is still daily-driving a 7700k/RX-470 based system and HE streams 4k/60hz YT videos to his TV CONSTANTLY with zero issues. (AND no "hardware" acceleration)

I'm sure you'll have a handy "explanation" for this that makes your issue somebody else's fault though.... I'm done.

Like you should have been a long time ago. I never asked for anyone's help here, yet I'm getting a lot of unsolicited "advice", which offers zero insight and some of it comes from not understanding certain key concepts. So, goodbye.

So your overclocking
everything is stable
but the drivers are broken

so you have all sorts of issues that are all the drivers fault.


Have you considered turning the overclock off?

Put your crystal ball back into attic, I'm not overclocking anything, everything is stable, but certain AMD driver functionality is simply broken or limited.

Your just confused.

While the unified video decoder did support video decoding for some types of video back on the rx500 series, vp9 was never one of them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder

Your confusing vp9 with the other video codecs it does do, like H265, H264, vc1, wmv9, h263, h262.


Vp9 was never supported until VCN, which shows up first in integrated graphics, and then in the rx5000 series and later.



Not that any of this matters, even CPUs considered complete crap 4 years ago had no issues decoding vp9:

https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=120569

Your problem exists between the keyboard and the chair.

You literally quoted a source, which states that RX 580 can indeed decode VP9. I'm seriously losing patience in this thread explaining things, but ffs, AMD's own whitepaper:

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/docs/amd-polaris-architecture.pdf

page 18 "The Polaris architecture has also been updated to include support for the VP9 codec at up to 4K resolution, which dovetails with YouTube’s transition to VP9 encoding"

About CPUs, that was in 2018, today is 2022 and YT is more bloated than ever and runs worse than ever. I had Athlon 64 and it could decode 1080p BD perfectly fine in SW mode via VLC, but in YT max was 240p/360p.

A person would think that after you purchased that 8k monitor for a few thousand dollars you could upgrade your five year old rx580.


Are you aware the rx580 maxes out at 4k 120Hz output? Your missing out on pixels!

You miss out on YT bitrate. BTW YT bitrate is directly tied to selected resolution and fps.

 

[Leeea]

You literally quoted a source, which states that RX 580 can indeed decode VP9. I'm seriously losing patience in this thread explaining things, but ffs, AMD's own whitepaper:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/docs/amd-polaris-architecture.pdf

VP9 is quite pointedly not listed:
https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/radeon-rx-580

and the source I pointed to makes it clear the first AMD GPU that could decode vp9 was the 2200g. Released a year after the rx500 series.

Your just misreading it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder

Take a closer look, vp9 does not show up until VCN, which does not show up until 2200g. Your Polaris is using UVD 6.3.



Your white paper is interesting, it seems vp9 was planned for Polaris. However, by the time it was released that feature was dropped. It does not appear AMD claimed it was a working feature on any of the cards it sold.

 

[The red spirit]

Even on 8k videos youtube only allows the users to select a max of 4k on a 1440p monitor. At least, that is what it shows for me. Youtube premium subscriber here to.

So the whole 8k video thing is not particularly relevant for 1440p users.

lmao, that's some nice bullshit I heard here. 8 videos load just fine on Windows 7 and that old V8800

I just retried my high res YT experiment in FF and 8K30 works okay, but isn't done on GPU. Around 46% load on GPU and 83% load on CPU. Less than ideal, but works.

Apparently the go to solution is just to disable hardware GPU decoding for all GPUs rather then futzing around. Although the above reddit link does seem to have a solution for windows users.

Yeah "solution".

 

[The red spirit]

Youtube in general just works better at lower resolutions anyway and their version of "4k" ain't great under pretty much the best of circumstances. (friends high-end gaming PC and LG OLED 4k)

Even @ 1440p/165hz things can get a little "sketchy" and it really seems like the closer you stay to 1080p/60hz maximum the "happier" Youtube is.

Like I said it's all about bit rate, want higher bitrate, then use higher than native res setting when playing videos and it will look better. Basically 4k for 2k screen, 8k for 4k screen, 2k or 4k for 1080p screen. As long as HW can handle that well, it always looks better.

 

[Leeea]

Yeah "solution".

It is the solution for everyone. Go scream at google for not caring about their implementation.

Or fire up windows and download the correct codec. Apparently either works.

 

[The red spirit]

VP9 is quite pointedly not listed:
https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/radeon-rx-580

and the source I pointed to make it clear the first AMD GPU that could decode vp9 was the 2200g.

Your just misreading it.

So why does it work well in linux? Why does AMD literally write that it indeed works in their own whitepaper?
Here, this explains everything that happened:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9rsubj

Was bait and switch AMD themselves and only botched solution remained.

Adrenalin removed vp9 hybrid acceleration? (Polaris)

I've lost hardware accelerated vp9 codec capability with recent driver update. Before Adrenalin it used to work just fine, 4k 60fps with mostly no dropped frames. Chrome flags I've used for it: --ignore-gpu-blacklist --enable-accelerated-vpx-decode=2 No longer work for me after driver update...

community.amd.com

Yep, AMD is really that crappy sometimes

 

[The red spirit]

It is the solution for everyone. Go scream at google for not caring about their implementation.

Or fire up windows and download the correct codec. Apparently either works.

I'm on Firefox, I don't need no Google.

 

[Leeea]

I'm on Firefox, I don't need no Google.

Three year old bug:

1601297 - Slight stuttering on 8K 60 fps YouTube videos on NVidia cards

NEW (nobody) in Core - Graphics: WebRender. Last updated 2024-07-27.

bugzilla.mozilla.org

and still broke.

 

[The red spirit]

Three year old bug:

1601297 - Slight stuttering on 8K 60 fps YouTube videos on NVidia cards

NEW (nobody) in Core - Graphics: WebRender. Last updated 2024-07-27.

bugzilla.mozilla.org

and still broke.

You don't seem to understand that AMD's UVD isn't equal to nV's NVDEC, not to mention gens are different and gens largely decide feature support. Seriously, read wiki page what HW decode even is and stop posting me drivel.

 

[Leeea]

So why does it work well in linux? Why does AMD literally write that it indeed works in their own whitepaper?

That is super interesting, but like I said AMD did not advertise it as a feature on the spec sheet.

Was bait and switch AMD themselves and only botched solution remained.

As far as I can tell AMD did not advertise it as a feature on the cards specification sheets. Perhaps they decided to drop it since it was a botched solution as you claim?


Perhaps they came to the same conclusion I did, it really does not matter when any old potato can decode vp9. As you said previously, it used high power consumption. If the hybrid GPU decode is inferior to CPU, it makes sense to get rid of it.


I suspect it would be difficult to find a customer who was harmed by this. Sounds like your using the CPU decode anyway.

 

[Leeea]

You don't seem to understand that AMD's UVD isn't equal to nV's NVDEC, not to mention gens are different and gens largely decide feature support. Seriously, read wiki page what HW decode even is and stop posting me drivel.

1601297 - Slight stuttering on 8K 60 fps YouTube videos on NVidia cards

NEW (nobody) in Core - Graphics: WebRender. Last updated 2024-07-27.

bugzilla.mozilla.org

Hardware-accelerated playback of 8K 60 fps videos on YouTube is inferior to Chrome, it exhibits slight periodic stutters. I have Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti.

Nvidia GTX gtx 1070

Intel Iris Plus Graphics 1536 Mo

Looks cross platform to me. Blaming a firefox issue that effects both nvidia and intel on AMD seems a bit odd to me.

 

[Leeea]

You don't seem to understand that AMD's UVD isn't equal to nV's NVDEC, not to mention gens are different and gens largely decide feature support. Seriously, read wiki page what HW decode even is and stop posting me drivel.

says the poster who is claiming AMD's Unified Video Decoder supports features found only in AMD's Video Core Next.

 

[The red spirit]

That is super interesting, but like I said AMD did not advertise it as a feature on the spec sheet.

I still remember it being on Raja's own slides

Perhaps they came to the same conclusion I did, it really does not matter when any old potato can decode vp9. As you said previously, it used high power consumption. If the hybrid GPU decode is inferior to CPU, it makes sense to get rid of it.


I suspect it would be difficult to find a customer who was harmed by this. Sounds like your using the CPU decode anyway.

Any old potato can't do that. My 10400F at best can do 4K60 or 8K30, that's max. It certainly matters a lot for any mobile user, it matter a lot when YT now uses vp9 even for 1080p. It sure does matter if your CPU isn't great, but you wanna watch high res Youtube. It matters, if you want to use old CPU and Polaris card for UHD BD. What doesn't matter is excusing AMD's bait and switch tactics with HW decoding. They claimed that Polaris supports it, then it means that it must work. Anything less than that is not acceptable. BTW power consumption is only high, because AMD's botched solution end up doing decoding on CPU while making Radeon card's VRAM work as buffer, therefore it's probably even worse than non hybrid solution.

 

[Leeea]

It certainly matters a lot for any mobile user

Peoples mobile phones do not have rx500s in them.

it matter a lot when YT now uses vp9 even for 1080p

Intel's old Atoms, one of the most pathetic CPU line ever made, can decode 1080p VP9. I already linked that.

Most peoples mobile phones outperform Intel Atoms.

Any old potato can't do that.

The Intel Atom series was the definition of potato.

They claimed that Polaris supports it, then it means that it must work.

As far as I can find, AMD did not claim that for the cards that were sold to consumers.

A whitepaper of AMD's goals for the architecture != specification sheet. Raja's powerpoint presentation of his goals != specification sheet. From what I can find, it was not listed as a supported feature on the cards that were sold. Yea, you can hack it back in, but all that does is show us why they dropped it.

 

[The red spirit]

1601297 - Slight stuttering on 8K 60 fps YouTube videos on NVidia cards

NEW (nobody) in Core - Graphics: WebRender. Last updated 2024-07-27.

bugzilla.mozilla.org

Looks cross platform to me. Blaming a firefox issue that effects both nvidia and intel on AMD seems a bit odd to me.

Tried in Edge and it's even worse. 4K60 drops some frames, CPU is loaded nearly to 100% at 4K60 and no 8K option anywhere. Firefox is better.

 

[Leeea]

Tried in Edge and it's even worse. 4K60 drops some frames, CPU is loaded nearly to 100% at 4K60 and no 8K option anywhere. Firefox is better.

is there a tool your using to measure this?

( my new 4k monitor just showed up today, and I was thinking about playing around with it later )

 

[Captante]

I never asked for anyone's help here, yet I'm getting a lot of unsolicited "advice"

Then why the freak did you even bother posting at all?

Just like hearing yourself talk? (erm... type?)


Your system is slow as molasses in January, it bogs down on a task it should be able to run easily and you've been told this repeatedly by more than one person. Something is obviously wrong even if you're too defensive to accept it.

But I'm sure it's all AMD's drivers not something you did right? (rotfl)

 

[The red spirit]

says the poster who is claiming AMD's Unified Video Decoder supports features found only in AMD's Video Core Next.

Nope, I just relay waht AMD themselves told. I only claim that it's broken stuff and AMD was dishonest and probably got away without some lawsuit.

Peoples mobile phones do not have rx500s in them.

Mobile also means laptops, hybrids and tablets

Intel's old Atoms, one of the most pathetic CPU line ever made, can decode 1080p VP9. I already linked that.

Most peoples mobile phones outperform Intel Atoms.

Because Intel didn't botch Quicksync's decoding capabilities. My own laptop with 7300u decodes VP9 4K60 videos on iGPU perfectly fine, while using a watt or two. BTW it also happens to be the first gen for Intel that they integrated VP9 decoding. Gotta say it actually works as they claimed.

As far as I can find, AMD did not claim that for the cards that were sold to consumers.

Pro cards use identical GPUs, so whatever.

A whitepaper of AMD's goals for the architecture != specification sheet. Raja's powerpoint presentation of his goals != specification sheet. From what I can find, it was not listed as a supported feature on the cards that were sold. Yea, you can hack it back in, but all that does is show us why they dropped it.

Whitepapers aren't for goals, they are for documenting what already has been made, also Raja's slides were for launching cards, so no goals either.

Anyway, found that damn slide:

Also AMD themselves (1:13):

Looks like AMD "unlaunched" VP9 from Polaris in consumer screwing way.

is there a tool your using to measure this?

( my new 4k monitor just showed up today, and I was thinking about playing around with it later )

Open YT video, enable geek menu and turn on task manager, that's all. Watch GPU decoder load and CPU load. CPU shouldn't be loaded much if GPU HW decoding is in use.

Then why the freak did you even bother posting at all?

Just like hearing yourself talk? (erm... type?)

Literally read the title of this thread. AMD has software AIDS and doesn't care to ever fix it. And if they can't they are also prone to clearly "unlaunch" features of cards. AMD's SW team is an utter joke.

Your system is slow as molasses in January, it bogs down on a task it should be able to run easily and you've been told this repeatedly by more than one person. Something is obviously wrong even if you're too defensive to accept it.

But I'm sure it's all AMD's drivers not something you did right? (rotfl)

How about a driver and software release that fixes all that?

 

[Thunder 57]

Lol, this thread escalated quickly. Here's my two cents:

I'm going to undervolt my GPU and when it doesn't work right I'm going to say AMD has software AIDS and their drivers are broken!

About right?

 

[The red spirit]

Lol, this thread escalated quickly. Here's my two cents:

I'm going to undervolt my GPU and when it doesn't work right I'm going to say AMD has software AIDS and their drivers are broken!

About right?

It does work correctly undervolted or not. Even without undervolt Radeon Chill stutters badly and is unusable. RIS doesn't apply to all games or majority of games. I already tested that and retested today, still nonfunctional. VP9 bullshit never worked and obviously doesn't work now either. It's also perfectly repeatable on several Polaris refresh cards in different computers. Do you people even read anything?

 

[Thunder 57]

It does work correctly undervolted or not. Even without undervolt Radeon Chill stutters badly and is unusable. RIS doesn't apply to all games or majority of games. I already tested that and retested today, still nonfunctional. VP9 bullshit never worked and obviously doesn't work now either. It's also perfectly repeatable on several Polaris refresh cards in different computers. Do you people even read anything?

You should work on your manners. Joining a forum and being argumentative with everyone isn't going to win you friends. Maybe you don't want friends and that's fine, but at least try to be a bit more civil. Also, pro tip, profanity is not allowed on the tech forums. I didn't report you because I don't care unless it's egregious, but someone else might care.

Radeon Chill works as advertised for me. What fps min and max are you using with it? Do you have a freesync monitor?