...in their cordless phones with the "memory" problem of the NiCD batteries? Why does Panasonic continue to choose NiCD (Nickel Cadmium) over NiMH (Nickel Metal Hydride)?
Why does Panasonic use NiCD instead of NiMH batteries?
- Thread starter Cheese78CA
- Start date
It's not just panasonic, most companies still do. I have a feeling it's because the new batteries (packs) are highly profitable. $15 for a 3battery pack in a plasticwrap or $3 for the same batteries online in bulk...
Which is enough that many people will say f-it and buy a new phone... and who knows maybe they'll get another panasonic. Although, I wouldn't in that scenario.
My last vtech phone used nicd and had 2 packs, one in the base one in the handset, so you used the one pack until it discharged then swapped 'em. That phone lasted 3+ yrs until it started getting bad reception.
This time I bought a vtech 2.4ghz set which does use nimh. It was that or Siemens phone, and the reviews on the Siemens w/ NiMH batts were not very good. The VTech phone uses a NIMH batt pack. Some 'special' 2xAAA set w/ a plug connector. So, if they go, I'll still have to buy a new pack or hack the one I have...
Which is enough that many people will say f-it and buy a new phone... and who knows maybe they'll get another panasonic. Although, I wouldn't in that scenario.
My last vtech phone used nicd and had 2 packs, one in the base one in the handset, so you used the one pack until it discharged then swapped 'em. That phone lasted 3+ yrs until it started getting bad reception.
This time I bought a vtech 2.4ghz set which does use nimh. It was that or Siemens phone, and the reviews on the Siemens w/ NiMH batts were not very good. The VTech phone uses a NIMH batt pack. Some 'special' 2xAAA set w/ a plug connector. So, if they go, I'll still have to buy a new pack or hack the one I have...
sorry fellas, but LiIon is not better. They have to be replaced sooner than NiMH. which surprisingly would be a good reason for manufacturers to use them.
i like NiMH best myself.
Oops, yeah. Although lithium-ion cells withstand hundreds of charge/recharge cycles, the life of lithium cells is more limited than that of nickel-based designs.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
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*looks at the 6 year old cordless on his wall*
This battery pack has lasted 6 years without a problem.
ZV
This battery pack has lasted 6 years without a problem.
ZV
NICD batteries have no more of a memory effect than NIMH batteries. The so called "memory effect" is a huge misconception that just keeps spreading. I'm too tired to get into the details but I've done extensive research on this. Also, IMO I like the fact that cordless phones use NICD batteries rather than NIMH batteries since NICD batteries weigh a lot less and still tend to last plenty long.
You're right about the so called "memory effect". The "memory effect" is largely blown out of proportion with its usage as a catch-all phrase. More commonly, overcharging due to poorly designed battery chargers is to blame for reduced battery life. According to http://www.repairfaq.org/ELE/F_NiCd_Battery.html#NICDBATTERY_026, there are 3 test conditions for the memory effect:
1. Batteries achieve full overcharge.
2. Discharge is not exactly the same each cycle - plus or minus 2-3%
3. Discharge is to less than 1.0 volt per cell.
Eliminating #1 with better chargers and #3 requiring non-household equipment, how likely is to get into the pattern of discharge withing plus or minus 2-3% each cycle?
http://www.powerstream.com/BatteryFAQ.html#nicd
"Virtually non-existant" for Panasonic's NiCDs according to Panasonic: http://panasonic.co.jp/pcc/cs/en/telecom/tel-faq.htm#2
NiMH exhibit the memory effect as well, but to a much lesser extent. NiMH batteries do not perform well in extreme temperatures and discharge (5%/day) significantly more quickly than NiCD when they are not used. NiMH batteries last longer per charge (than a NiCD battery of the same size) since they have a higher charge density, but cannot go through nearly as many charge cycles as NiCD batteries.
http://www.batterycanada.com/Battery_Facts.htm
http://www.valence.com/chemistries.asp
1. Batteries achieve full overcharge.
2. Discharge is not exactly the same each cycle - plus or minus 2-3%
3. Discharge is to less than 1.0 volt per cell.
Eliminating #1 with better chargers and #3 requiring non-household equipment, how likely is to get into the pattern of discharge withing plus or minus 2-3% each cycle?
http://www.powerstream.com/BatteryFAQ.html#nicd
"Virtually non-existant" for Panasonic's NiCDs according to Panasonic: http://panasonic.co.jp/pcc/cs/en/telecom/tel-faq.htm#2
NiMH exhibit the memory effect as well, but to a much lesser extent. NiMH batteries do not perform well in extreme temperatures and discharge (5%/day) significantly more quickly than NiCD when they are not used. NiMH batteries last longer per charge (than a NiCD battery of the same size) since they have a higher charge density, but cannot go through nearly as many charge cycles as NiCD batteries.
http://www.batterycanada.com/Battery_Facts.htm
http://www.valence.com/chemistries.asp
I have wondered that myself becaue my newest cordless phone 2.4GHz SST only has a 4 hour talk time. However I have come to the conclusion that good Ni-Cd batteries probably just last longer. I used to buy Ever ready Ni_CD batteries and they are crap. If you do not use them for a year or two, they seem to die and not accept charge. I have a bunch of Ni-Mh now and they work great.
Well they cost a lot more than the other two types so do not expect to see them soon. Ni-Cd is bad for the environment so maybe if Panasonic was really concerned about the Kyoto effort, they'd use Ni-Mh.
Of course, in terms of cost: NiCD < NiMH << Lithium-ion Polymer. Who cares about the environmental effects? I don't until I have to take out the NiCD's to recycle. j/k Then I wish I paid more than the NiCD so I don't have to find the nearest recycling center. 
Never had a problem with NiCD batteries in a cordless phone, they last so many years that I usually break the phone before any charge problems. Just replaced a 900MHz phone purchased 7 years ago, battery charge works like new.
Um, no. There is a real memory effect. NiMH batteries tend to give out a bit smoother of a powerband, too. I did all of this crap when I was into R/C cars, and I even tested the memory effect on an old 1500 mah NiCD pack. Although as mentioned above, R/C cars = using very very precise and expensive peak chargers.
What i've heard is that with the proper charge (with reverse pulse whatyamacallit) memory effect can not only be stopped completly, but actually reversed! :Q
So if they use the correct charger, the impact of the memory effect will be so little it won't matter.
So if they use the correct charger, the impact of the memory effect will be so little it won't matter.
You mean to "discharge the battery to 1.0 volts per cell (VPC) on a minimal load, and then charge it fully. Repeat this procedure until you notice the battery lasting longer and longer on the drain, until it holds its correct capacity and not the "memorized" one. Unfortunately, unless you have good equipment, it is hard to discharge to 1.0 VPC without accidentally "reversing" a cell."?
http://www.batterybank.com/page18.html
http://www.batterybank.com/page18.html
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