why does john carmack stick with opengl?

[draggoon01]

he's the last of game programmers who still use opengl right? since hardware is being devloped based on directx specs (and companies are hit hard when they don't...*cough*nvidia*), why is it he still chose opengl? doesn't he sit on some board for msft and help develop xbox?

is there anything wrong with msft dictating the api used? with 3dfx it was problem, but msft doesn't make hardware so there seems no conflict (unless they want to punish a company... is it possible that recent nvidia-halflife2 problems are due in part to msft?)

 

[UlricT]

more "to the metal" coding is possible... I suppose. Instead of leaving control with a proprietary High-level language, You could use the GPU to its fullest extent? I'm just guessing here....

 

[DaveSimmons]

> is there anything wrong with msft dictating the api used? with 3dfx it was problem, but msft doesn't make hardware so there seems no conflict (unless they want to punish a company... is it possible that recent nvidia-halflife2 problems are due in part to msft?)

OpenGL is an open standard that is OS-neutral (PC, Mac, 'nix, consoles) while Directx is a proprietary Windows-only API and is changed according to MS' whim not according to a community standards process.

Also, Carmack had been using OpenGL for years before Directx became a credible alternative (for Windows), so he might just be staying with the API he has the most experience with.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: draggoon01
he's the last of game programmers who still use opengl right? since hardware is being devloped based on directx specs (and companies are hit hard when they don't...*cough*nvidia*), why is it he still chose opengl? doesn't he sit on some board for msft and help develop xbox?

is there anything wrong with msft dictating the api used? with 3dfx it was problem, but msft doesn't make hardware so there seems no conflict (unless they want to punish a company... is it possible that recent nvidia-halflife2 problems are due in part to msft?)

Yes there is a problem with Microsoft dictating the API that must be used. What if you get another crazy monopoly situation or Microsoft decided to charge royalties 6 years down the road when everyone just knows Direct3d - switching won't be easy and most companies would probably just bite the bullet.

And your analogy is like saying there is no problem with Microsoft controlling the software market because it doesn't affect the hardware market...

 

[oldfart]

I like OpenGL. It always seems faster/smoother. The games that I have run that can be run in DX or OpenGL, Half-Life, UT, Serious Sam all run better in OpenGL.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
> is there anything wrong with msft dictating the api used? with 3dfx it was problem, but msft doesn't make hardware so there seems no conflict (unless they want to punish a company... is it possible that recent nvidia-halflife2 problems are due in part to msft?)

OpenGL is an open standard that is OS-neutral (PC, Mac, 'nix, consoles) while Directx is a proprietary Windows-only API and is changed according to MS' whim not according to a community standards process.

Also, Carmack had been using OpenGL for years before Directx became a credible alternative (for Windows), so he might just be staying with the API he has the most experience with.

Exactly why I think he's sticking to it.

That, and in my experience OGL has been much easier to code than DX.

- M4H

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
> is there anything wrong with msft dictating the api used? with 3dfx it was problem, but msft doesn't make hardware so there seems no conflict (unless they want to punish a company... is it possible that recent nvidia-halflife2 problems are due in part to msft?)

OpenGL is an open standard that is OS-neutral (PC, Mac, 'nix, consoles) while Directx is a proprietary Windows-only API and is changed according to MS' whim not according to a community standards process.

Also, Carmack had been using OpenGL for years before Directx became a credible alternative (for Windows), so he might just be staying with the API he has the most experience with.

Exactly why I think he's sticking to it.

That, and in my experience OGL has been much easier to code than DX.

- M4H

I seem to like OpenGL modes in games better too, especially for textures and their "richer" color...

 

[mosco]

I always heard that open gl wasn't as easy to code in, which is why opengl 2 was supposed to be such a big deal.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: mosco
I always heard that open gl wasn't as easy to code in, which is why opengl 2 was supposed to be such a big deal.

What (ignorant MS-loving moron) gave you that idea?

- M4H

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: mosco
I always heard that open gl wasn't as easy to code in, which is why opengl 2 was supposed to be such a big deal.

What (ignorant MS-loving moron) gave you that idea?

- M4H

ameesh?

 

[draggoon01]

Originally posted by: magomago

And your analogy is like saying there is no problem with Microsoft controlling the software market because it doesn't affect the hardware market...

please elaborate

 

[Pocatello]

I've seen pictures of Carmack using a mac instead of a pc, for making Doom III.

 

[Luagsch]

doom 3 on linux will not just be for dedicated servers. there will a lot of people playing it on linux/unix rigs. maybe an osx version will be out too in some time. with direct x you would run into problems as it is ms proprietary. the only way hl2 will run on linux is as dedicated server i guess... (or maybe software mode )

 

[wetcat007]

A better question would be why don't other companies stick to opengl?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Luagsch
the only way hl2 will run on linux is as dedicated server i guess... (or maybe software mode )

It would be funny if the porting company licensed the Doom3 engine for Mac HL2

 

[randumb]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
> is there anything wrong with msft dictating the api used? with 3dfx it was problem, but msft doesn't make hardware so there seems no conflict (unless they want to punish a company... is it possible that recent nvidia-halflife2 problems are due in part to msft?)

OpenGL is an open standard that is OS-neutral (PC, Mac, 'nix, consoles) while Directx is a proprietary Windows-only API and is changed according to MS' whim not according to a community standards process.

Also, Carmack had been using OpenGL for years before Directx became a credible alternative (for Windows), so he might just be staying with the API he has the most experience with.

Exactly why I think he's sticking to it.

That, and in my experience OGL has been much easier to code than DX.

- M4H

If you take a look at DirectX 8 and 9 versus OpenGL 1.4, DirectX is easier to code and has better formatting. DirectX is very easy if you're familiar with OOP (Object Oriented Programming), since it is COM based. OpenGL extensions can get pretty ugly too.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: wetcat007
A better question would be why don't other companies stick to opengl?

 

[Spearhawk]

Originally posted by: mosco
I always heard that open gl wasn't as easy to code in, which is why opengl 2 was supposed to be such a big deal.

DX is a pain in the posteriors to initialize and it got horrible var/function names. Howerver DX got serverl things that OpenGL don't (since OGL is just a graphic api), like vectors classe, matrices, etc etc . Which can make DX more conviniant to code in since you don't have to make all that stuff youself.
I my slef prefare OGL since it got function names that's actuly possible to remeber, it's cross platform, it requiers you to write things like vector classes youself (yes, it's a good thing when understanding of the subject is your goal), is a open standard and most importantly is just as powerfull as DirectX. With that said I guess I should mention that I plan to learn DX sometime soon, knowing both APIs is alwys useful.

 

[BFG10K]

While both APIs are good and can be fast, I believe the two main reasons he sticks with OpenGL are familiarity and cross-platform support.

 

[Pocatello]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
While both APIs are good and can be fast, I believe the two main reasons he sticks with OpenGL are familiarity and cross-platform support.

I think HL2 developers will regret that they're using DX9. A lot of Linux and OS X users won't be able to run HL2. I don't know if all those Linux servers which ran Counterstrike will be able to run Counterstrike 2. There are emulators for Linux to run Direct X games...we will have to wait and see.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
While both APIs are good and can be fast, I believe the two main reasons he sticks with OpenGL are familiarity and cross-platform support.

BFG10K didn't bash open standards!!! :Q

 

[BFG10K]

I think HL2 developers will regret that they're using DX9.

I don't.

A lot of Linux and OS X users won't be able to run HL2.

That market share is an insignificant blip. If DX9 was the right tool for Valve's purposes, other platforms are simply not big enough sway that decision.

 

[HigherGround]

I think HL2 developers will regret that they're using DX9. A lot of Linux and OS X users won't be able to run HL2. I don't know if all those Linux servers which ran Counterstrike will be able to run Counterstrike 2. There are emulators for Linux to run Direct X games...we will have to wait and see.

If valve did their design homework, the server code can be run independently from the rest of the game, thus allowing for easy CLI port to a Unix (*BSD/Linux) platform. OSX users will get a shaft, hey what else is new

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Luagsch
doom 3 on linux will not just be for dedicated servers. there will a lot of people playing it on linux/unix rigs. maybe an osx version will be out too in some time.

As far as I know of, a Mac version is a given, it's the Linux version that may not come.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Luagsch
doom 3 on linux will not just be for dedicated servers. there will a lot of people playing it on linux/unix rigs. maybe an osx version will be out too in some time.

As far as I know of, a Mac version is a given, it's the Linux version that may not come.

Does the Mac have DirectX? If not, then they must be having to write in an alternate API (possibly OpenGL?).