Why does it all have to be so COMPLICATED!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Linuxator]

Ok I have been using windows since the first time I touched a keyboard 11 years ago I am very experienced with windows but not on a professional level I am able to do anything complicated I want with it without much help I do program in visual BASIC, and game on windows , windows isn't stable its not that reliable , microsoft keeps stealing ideas instead of creating ones and monopolising the market etc, etc that is a fact , But another fact is it FREAKING WORKS FOR ME SOME HOW , on the other side LINUX MIGHT WORK AFTER I SPEND MY WHOLE YOUTH TRYING TO INSTALL AN APP AND IT S LIBRARIES(i.e MPLAYER on fedora core 4 oh jesus) !!!!!!!! I saw this article by coincidence and I totally agree with the man. see link below :

http://www.icpug.org.uk/national/freesw/030712fs.htm

p.s dont get me wring now : I have been using linux for 6 months now I am totally into Redhat and Fedora Core why? some aspects of having something standard , excellent company + community support fedora core brought the fun back to computing for me in some areas.
This is my first post here at anandtech so excuse me if i messed the format somehow

 

[stars]

Most of the newer operating systems are reliable when properly maintained. If it took me an entire day to install one application I would find a new operating system. Welcome to Anandtech.

 

[The Linuxator]

"Most of the newer operating systems are reliable when properly maintained. If it took me an entire day to install one application I would find a new operating system. Welcome to Anandtech.''
Stars

Thank you Stars
I understand your viewpoint but what I am asking from the linux community and advanced linux users is that. Why is their this ignorance concerning Ease of Usability? Is it impossible to creat a setup file that does the work for the user? is that saying windows is more advanced than linux? , its impossible for a novice to run his linux system the way he runs his windows system even if he is a novice to windows too , the way the linux community asks a person to install an app can be viewed exactly as if microsoft is telling you, as the end user " hey you instead of letting the windows installer install this program for you in 20 seconds you are going to manually extract the .dll files(tons of them) not to mention .config into the C:\WINDOWS\system32 directory and while you are at it why dont you write the windows registry entries yourself and maybe find your way from there,but to cheer you up here is the list of 500 files you need to manually extract to their different directories and if your lucky, at the level of knwoledge you have right now you might be able to partially run the program when you see your 3rd grandchild ", crap, If I ever hear bill gates asking some stupid request like that from Win users I would approve that he be transfered into the nearest sanitarium in Redmond A.S.A.P. before all of the people trying to install his software go BANANAS and join him at the sanitarium ( not that he doesnt need one at the moment but mmmmhh....)

 

[Nothinman]

The article you linked to is 2 years old, a lot changes in 2 years.

And Windows is just fine stability-wise since Win2K, I have a Win2K machine at work and rarely have problems.

And I can install mplayer with 1 command in Debian (and Ubuntu I believe). RH/Fedora complicates things because there's too many external repositories needed to get all of the apps you might want, with Debian there's 1 main one with ~16,000 packages and 1 extra for mplayer because mplayer has some possibly patent infringing code in it so it can't go in Debian proper.

 

[P0ldy]

Yeah, just as Nothinman said. Debian's apt-get does it in no time. I don't even have to go google an app--it's most likely in the repositories. Just open a console.

 

[SinNisTeR]

Linux powers 301 of the 500 top Super Computer machines in the world, compared to 189 on Unix, two on FreeBSD, and one on Microsoft's.

^ On you sig.

what about the other seven? OSX?

 

[CTho9305]

Linux powers 301 of the 500 top Super Computer machines in the world, compared to 189 on Unix, two on FreeBSD, and one on Microsoft's.

I don't really care if the OS my desktop runs is good for supercomputers. I need it to manage a few dozen processes, <4 CPUs (usually only 1 CPU), and <4GB RAM. The ability of an OS to efficiently run on a large number of nodes in a cluster is useless to me. I don't need load balancing, the ability to handle CPU failures, or other supercomputery stuff.

 

[The Linuxator]

quote:

"^ On you sig.

what about the other seven? OSX?"

ya I know its of by a little of the 500 number but where I read this article see link:

http://www.forbes.com/home/enterprisetech/2005/03/15/cz_dl_0315linux.html

they said that their by a little of on the 500 number but this is what there source gave them but I dont think apple would be any were near the top ones , remember anandtech's review about mac G5 as servers and how they were in a disadvantage from their position as desktop so I dont think MAC architechture could be of excellent performance vs others they wouldn't be performing optimally in a large scale such as a supercomputer handling 40,000+ processors and thousands of clients doesnt sound good but thats just my humble opinion

quote :

"The article you linked to is 2 years old, a lot changes in 2 years.

And Windows is just fine stability-wise since Win2K, I have a Win2K machine at work and rarely have problems.

And I can install mplayer with 1 command in Debian (and Ubuntu I believe). RH/Fedora complicates things because there's too many external repositories needed to get all of the apps you might want, with Debian there's 1 main one with ~16,000 packages and 1 extra for mplayer because mplayer has some possibly patent infringing code in it so it can't go in Debian proper."

I know the article is old but the problem is old and is in continuation.
I do agree with you fedora core has the same thing using yum install blabla... in the terminal , but most of the time what i want is not in the redhat servers for example , even for debian I bet you you might find things here and there that you might need but you have to compile it from source code which sucks .I had to compile ndiswrapper from source code it kicked the sh**t out of my patience and all instructions considre that you have done the stuff a million times before.

My main gripe isnt with Mplayer thats one big problem yes but its the arrogance of many in the open source community
they think people were born with a gentoo manual installation guide preloaded into their braincells by the Dr using an invisible hot plug USB 2.0 port in the back of the skull jeeeez!!!!!! sometimes I feel the open source community isnt open at all LOL

 

[Nothinman]

ven for debian I bet you you might find things here and there that you might need but you have to compile it from source code which sucks .I had to compile ndiswrapper from source code it kicked the sh**t out of my patience and all instructions considre that you have done the stuff a million times before.

I have maybe 5 things installed that aren't in Debian and one is VMWare which is non-free so it hardly counts. Hell I even have Acrobat installed via the same 3rd party repository that hosts mplayer. You can't judge Linux on one distro, especially once as limiting as Fedora.

 

[The Linuxator]

quote:
"
I don't really care if the OS my desktop runs is good for supercomputers. I need it to manage a few dozen processes, <4 CPUs (usually only 1 CPU), and <4GB RAM. The ability of an OS to efficiently run on a large number of nodes in a cluster is useless to me. I don't need load balancing, the ability to handle CPU failures, or other supercomputery stuff."

I think I have changed My sig people here at the forums are taking it seriously all i meant is that when you see a company investing 100million+ in a supercomputer and running linux on it , its a great testomonial that Linux is an OS to be trusted , but things can be much different on desktop/personal servver level but again its up to the owners what to think

yah by the way CTho9305 "War - the only way Americans learn geography." nice sig

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
My main gripe isnt with Mplayer thats one big problem yes but its the arrogance of many in the open source community
they think people were born with a gentoo manual installation guide preloaded into their braincells by the Dr using an invisible hot plug USB 2.0 port in the back of the skull jeeeez!!!!!! sometimes I feel the open source community isnt open at all LOL

If you think there isn't an insane amount of arrogance in all of science and technology, you are sorely mistaken. Arrogance is part of the territory, and you feel the full blast of it when you fail to demonstrate that you have at least thought about the problem to some basic degree. You are usually protected from this arrogance by many layers of professional tech support, designed to weed out painfully obvious problems read from a checklist before reaching the arrogant engineers.

When it comes to installing programs in Linux, the answer usually begins with the package manager and front-end (up2date, yum, apt, etc.). End of that line of discussion.

 

[The Linuxator]

I have made computers my main intrest through my life is because I enjoyed the fact that computers fascilitate things
not complicate them now there is a serious degree of progress from the old linux but I hope linux's isolation in practices doestn't deter people from it or everything that is left goes to monopoly. And what did you mean by "you feel the full blast of it when you fail to demonstrate that you have at least thought about the problem to some basic degree" are you saying I failed to try cause obviously this thread is about me trying too hard and failing after trying not failing at trying , I didnt get you there.??

I am trying to change my sig but isnt working eventhough I am below 255 charachters and have no code in it nor special charachters.

 

[The Linuxator]

it actually turned out my firewall was preventing me from changing profile disabled it changed profile reenabled it all worked out hmmm never seen that happening before!!! some members fixed it the same way too

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
"Most of the newer operating systems are reliable when properly maintained. If it took me an entire day to install one application I would find a new operating system. Welcome to Anandtech.''
Stars

Thank you Stars
I understand your viewpoint but what I am asking from the linux community and advanced linux users is that. Why is their this ignorance concerning Ease of Usability? Is it impossible to creat a setup file that does the work for the user? is that saying windows is more advanced than linux? , its impossible for a novice to run his linux system the way he runs his windows system even if he is a novice to windows too , the way the linux community asks a person to install an app can be viewed exactly as if microsoft is telling you, as the end user " hey you instead of letting the windows installer install this program for you in 20 seconds you are going to manually extract the .dll files(tons of them) not to mention .config into the C:\WINDOWS\system32 directory and while you are at it why dont you write the windows registry entries yourself and maybe find your way from there,but to cheer you up here is the list of 500 files you need to manually extract to their different directories and if your lucky, at the level of knwoledge you have right now you might be able to partially run the program when you see your 3rd grandchild ", crap, If I ever hear bill gates asking some stupid request like that from Win users I would approve that he be transfered into the nearest sanitarium in Redmond A.S.A.P. before all of the people trying to install his software go BANANAS and join him at the sanitarium ( not that he doesnt need one at the moment but mmmmhh....)

Actually there isn't a sanitarium in redmond its in Lakewood near Tacoma.

 

[lucky9]

I run a Debian based distro called Simply Mepis 3.3

Can be point and click as you want or all command line. Apt-get is great for installing software and GUI tools are available for those that wish (Synaptic and KPackage) to use them. MultiMedia is setup with default install. Mepis.org will get you to the download link and that has multiple mirrors. Normally mepislovers.com will be a good support site along with the above forum. 'lovers also has a pretty good wiki. Currently having a bandwidth problem that restricts use for the rest of June to daytime and evening (got more popular than they thought it would this early).

 

[The Linuxator]

Yeah man whatever works lakewood,alaska, the amzons , but ill bet you he' ll choose cyberia $500 savings a month he cant resist that = 5 xp keys wow keyyyyyyyyyys droooooole bill droooole!!!!!!!!

 

[Nothinman]

So, Linuxator, you're what? Like 12yrs old?

 

[calyco]

Odd, I never had a problem with Fedora. How much simpler can it get than yum install mplayer (or synaptic on Ubuntu)? It installs the app and its dependencies for you. I also installed Fedora about 6 months ago, I am now on FreeBSD which "just works" for me. Once you get past the learning curve and grasp the basic concepts then everything starts to make sense. Then you can start customizing, sh!t.. you can even make linux look exactly like XP if you wanted. I dont know about you but I first installed linux to learn more about computers/OS. If you just wanted to point n click your way through and not really care what goes on behind the scenes then why not just stick with Windows? I guess its a similar mentality with the developers, if you were smart enough to find out about and get linux up and running then you should be capable of knowing how to approach configuration, administration etc. of the system (aka RTFM). I dont think they "think people were born with a gentoo manual installation guide preloaded into their braincells", thats why its there for you to read it

 

[R3MF]

i agree that linux distro's should spend more time just making-sure-it-works in a bomb proof and idiot proof manner.

i love SUSE, and really quite like ubuntu, but there is more work to be done. [/written in XP ]

 

[The Linuxator]

Actually you are too smart to post, If I was able to install Mplayer via yum I wouldn't be writing this post , Mplayer isnt available trough yum. tell me where you able to get WIFI working on fedora core and how much time did it take there is NO RPM package for fedora core nor redhat so how are you supposed to get wifi installed on your pc(in a non-novice crazy driving manner) . Now tell me is wifi is some lame technology nowadays? and nobody cares for it in the linux community!!

Quote:
" i agree that linux distro's should spend more time just making-sure-it-works in a bomb proof and idiot proof manner.

i love SUSE, and really quite like ubuntu, but there is more work to be done. [/written in XP ]"

Finally some logical linux user that accepts to admit some isuues with linux. I never Said that linux is crap , I was just saying that its harsh on newcommers,but what the whole posting is about is that , we ask people to switch to linux and once they do we tell them "Tough Sh**t you are not our problem newbiee) . I don't see that when, people have a problem with windows even in this forum people tend to be more assistant i mean thats why forums are for HELP among other reasons , for those who have been attacking me for ranting about my favorite OS Fedora , check the window's posts at this forum and see how much anandtech users help each other out. IF linux wants to progress we must take this ' If you dont know how to then you'd better walk away now' mentality.

quot:
So, Linuxator, you're what? Like 12yrs old?

I wish I stumbled across linux when I was 12 I would have been very experienced by now.

 

[doornail]

Why is their this ignorance concerning Ease of Usability?

its the arrogance of many in the open source community

sometimes I feel the open source community isnt open at all LOL

Finally some logical linux user that accepts to admit some isuues with linux.

You know what? I think you're a fraud, Linuxator (Linux Hater?). This thread smells of astroturfing and damning via faint praise.

"Hi, this is my first post ever ... Windows is so much easier, faster, and just works ... it's really hard to use Linux ... see, read this link that says Linux is hard .... Linux is for supercomputers ... the Linux community is a bunch of meanies (even though everyone in this thread has tried to be helpful) ... any newbies thinking about trying Linux had better not."

Linux on the desktop is here, right now, for anyone that is willing to try.

 

[Nothinman]

tell me where you able to get WIFI working on fedora core and how much time did it take

It took me ~10 minutes to get my new 802.11g card working in Debian. It only took that long because I did have to download the driver, hopefully in a few months this particular driver will be integrated with the main kernel so that step won't even be necessary. If you get proper hardware and support companies that support Linux, your experience will be much better.

Now tell me is wifi is some lame technology nowadays? and nobody cares for it in the linux community!!

Actually wifi works really well, I have 2 cards that work flawlessly.

I was just saying that its harsh on newcommers,

And Windows isn't? Give a new user a Windows box and it'll be unusable in a week because of all the viruses and spyware.

I wish I stumbled across linux when I was 12 I would have been very experienced by now.

I dont' know about that, you haven't even managed to master proper punctuation and spelling so far.

 

[The Linuxator]

WOW!!!!!!! I started this post as a linux supporter now the conclusions are as follows :

quote:

" And Windows isn't? Give a new user a Windows box and it'll be unusable in a week because of all the viruses and spyware"

what a great thinker havent you read what I have said so far about Windows read people.

quote:
" I wish I stumbled across linux when I was 12 I would have been very experienced by now.



I dont' know about that, you haven't even managed to master proper punctuation and spelling so far."

Wow another deep sighted thinker so you were observing my spelling all the time , great job dipsh*t what a great example
for linux users I am asking questions, expecting some open minds to give me an answer not adress me with insults about how poor my english is. You dont even know how to spell the name of my country let alone know how to speak my language either properly or non properly you dolt what now you are giving me a hard time for being a newb to english too great that's all I needed.

quote:

"
You know what? I think you're a fraud, Linuxator (Linux Hater?). This thread smells of astroturfing and damning via faint praise.

"Hi, this is my first post ever ... Windows is so much easier, faster, and just works ... it's really hard to use Linux ... see, read this link that says Linux is hard .... Linux is for supercomputers ... the Linux community is a bunch of meanies (even though everyone in this thread has tried to be helpful) ... any newbies thinking about trying Linux had better not."

Linux on the desktop is here, right now, for anyone that is willing to try."

So after all of this some short sighted people come up with the conclusion that I havent tried (at all), Linux is only for supercomputers, and I'am being discriminated against because of my english, till now no suggestions or useful peace of advice about advancing my knwoledge in linux. Oh ya you are learning so much in debian and trying so hard by typing apt get xxx wow your knwoledge is so superior to mine Congrats!!!!!!!

Thats it for me I have always read anandtech forums and liked how much help people get around here, so I start my first post and what great bundle of surprises I receive. I am so impressed you losers. yah I wonder how many million people will
convert to open source after reading this article and seeing how much people offered help and advice . I bet yah they are
taking a number right now.

 

[Nothinman]

Wow another deep sighted thinker so you were observing my spelling all the time , great job dipsh*t what a great example

If you come in here typing like a 12yr old using AOL, you're going to be taken very seriously.

for linux users I am asking questions, expecting some open minds to give me an answer not adress me with insults about how poor my english is.

We did give you answers, and it's not nearly as hard as you're making it out to be.

I wonder how many million people will
convert to open source after reading this article and seeing how much people offered help and advice .

Who cares? I use Linux because it works well for me, if you don't like it noone is forcing you to use it. If you want to actually try to make it work well for you and understand why it works the way it does, we'll be here to help but if you're just going to complain then by all means, leave.

 

[pennylane]

After reading this thread, I want my 3 minutes back.