All the press and media keep repeating that this was a well organized and well funded terrorist attack. I don't understand why they think this was so hard to pull off. It probably took 8-10 people, a couple grand and no heart. Of course they planned it ahead of time, but they did'nt build any bombs. I think it's a bit of non-believe that US airports are so under guarded. I feel extremely saddened by this whole event. My heart goes out to all the victims families.
Why does everyone say they were "well funded"?
- Thread starter ivol
- Start date
It isn't easy to fly a large commercial jumbo jet with such precision. That requires training. Expensive training. No, Flight Sim 2K will NOT teach you how to fly one.
Windogg
Windogg
just look at how complete and perfect their plan was, and the organization that went into the execution of the plan....
Ivol, I have been saying that all day...
Flight plans are freely available on the internet....
Airport security, as demostrated recently by Nightline (or some similar show), isn't at all what is should be....
Lets say at least two terrorists per plane, with at least one on each plane knowing how to fly it....and even with that, the hardest parts about flying a plane are landing and taking off, which wasn't a concern here at all....though the fact that they turned off the transponder devices does indicate a more thorough knowledge of the planes...
They obviously figured out a way to get knives on board, and since they knew the take-off times (scheduled anyway), co-ordinating the attacks to occur close together doesn't seem like rocket science.
I am not saying this isn't part of a well organized/funded attack, I am just saying it doesn't seem to be the only possibility.
Flight plans are freely available on the internet....
Airport security, as demostrated recently by Nightline (or some similar show), isn't at all what is should be....
Lets say at least two terrorists per plane, with at least one on each plane knowing how to fly it....and even with that, the hardest parts about flying a plane are landing and taking off, which wasn't a concern here at all....though the fact that they turned off the transponder devices does indicate a more thorough knowledge of the planes...
They obviously figured out a way to get knives on board, and since they knew the take-off times (scheduled anyway), co-ordinating the attacks to occur close together doesn't seem like rocket science.
I am not saying this isn't part of a well organized/funded attack, I am just saying it doesn't seem to be the only possibility.
:disgust:
They definitely had some organization, more than likely some help smuggling weapons onto the plane (though with knives it might not have been that big a deal). While it is hard to take off and land a jet liner, i have heard that once a plane is in the air it is fairly simple to bank and turn. Either way, perhaps these people took flight lessons with is very common and not all that expensive. I would be surprised if there were over 20 people directly involved in this: How many hijackers do you need to take the plane? 2 probably could have done it. What's especially scary is how this was such a low budget operation: using knives to kill thousands of people? who woulda thunk?
They definitely had some organization, more than likely some help smuggling weapons onto the plane (though with knives it might not have been that big a deal). While it is hard to take off and land a jet liner, i have heard that once a plane is in the air it is fairly simple to bank and turn. Either way, perhaps these people took flight lessons with is very common and not all that expensive. I would be surprised if there were over 20 people directly involved in this: How many hijackers do you need to take the plane? 2 probably could have done it. What's especially scary is how this was such a low budget operation: using knives to kill thousands of people? who woulda thunk?
Ok dead serious example. Goto your mall and look at all the cockeyed parking jobs. Your average driver cannot park a car right and you expect your average terrorist to be able to take control of a complex jumbo jet? 99% of the poulation do not know what a transponder is yet these people know how to disable it. Then they navigate it over 250 miles, decend, and hit an office building dead center. This was not a spur of the moment thought by a bunch of people buying a few plane tickets. That requires expensive training.
well funded because flightschool is like 50,000 dollars each person, plus prolly money to the families of the terrorist pilots or somthing..
And how do we know that the terrorists are the ones who flew. I know it's not a good thought but what if an american pilot was forced to do this. Maybe that is why the one went down before reaching it's target. I agree it was well thought out, but not more than any high school kid could have done. What organazation was needed really...you get on that plane, I'll get on this one. After half an hour in the air highjack it. Unfortunately I think it's easier than everyone thinks. I realize that my example is very simplistic, but really how much money does it take?
I believe they are also saying its well funded because Bin Ladin is a multi millionare and many believe (I also) that he is the one behind all of these events
not to say 50,000 was the cost i assume they had bought a plane before to test it out which i think should cost them plenty
- Mar 20, 2000
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there had to be 4 or more terrorists per plane because they only had knives. there would have been heroics had there only been 2. and if you were a pilot and they told you to fly toward NYC then go low and aim for the WTC wouldn't you ditch it in the harbor? maybe they'd slit your throat but some people might live being so close to land, especially if you were going slow. no, these were trained pilots flying those planes. also, there was more than "hey lets just get on a plane." those bastards knew damn well which planes to get on, transcontinental flights with lots of fuel on board. something even the talking heads took a while to figure out (granted, they aren't the most intelligent of people at times). plus, all the planes were essentially the same. they were trained for a specific plane, the 757/767 (which are damned near the same, except for the width of the body).
<< All the press and media keep repeating that this was a well organized and well funded terrorist attack. I don't understand why they think this was so hard to pull off. It probably took 8-10 people, a couple grand and no heart. Of course they planned it ahead of time, but they did'nt build any bombs. >>
1. They did their research to find out what airlines had the worst security records.
2. They made sure they flew out during the most hectic time at the airports, the "morning rush."
3. They had to find 4 planes taking off from the same part of the country, around the same time, and flying to the west coast (so the planes would carry max amounts of fuel).
4. They had to train pilots to fly the planes.
5. All the planes had to hit their targets w/in a pretty tight time window. Other wise they would've been shot down by US jets.
6. They had to get people w/weapons onto the planes (yeah, I know they were just knives/scissors/box cutters).
If you think about the Oklahoma City bombing, or the WTC bombing that was a coupla people w/rental trucks and homemade bombs. This was 4 times the man power (assuming 2 terrorists per plane). That's 4x the people you gotta buy plane tickets for (lets say 2 each, one to get into the country, one to get onto the planes they hijacked), house/hide, and feed.
This wasn't something that was thrown together in a couple of weeks. I bet these guys had back-up plans, for their back-up plan.
Lethal
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2001
- 14,513
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<< heh, well 50,000 bucks isnt really a lot.. for a terrorist organization.. or anything. >>
i was looking into being a pilot. i was quoted 58k for four years of all the steps (maintenence, piloting, etc). that was just the school part. you have to have 2000 hours of in flight time on all types of different configurations (multi-engine, turbo-prop, jet, etc). at about 100$ an hour, you can see that is gonna add up quick.
$USD 50,000 ??? You can learn how to fly light aircraft in Australia for several grand (current exchange rate is $AUD 1 = $USD 0.51) There is even are a few schools which include flight lessons as part of their education (15 year old learning how to fly a plane before that can drive a car).
Once you've got the basics down in the light aircraft, a large aircraft can't be that hard (they didn't need to know how to land it after all)
All you need then is someone to tell them how to disable the transponder, a step by step guide for navigating the aircraft and bingo instant terrorist.
Once you've got the basics down in the light aircraft, a large aircraft can't be that hard (they didn't need to know how to land it after all)
All you need then is someone to tell them how to disable the transponder, a step by step guide for navigating the aircraft and bingo instant terrorist.
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2001
- 14,513
- 4
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a light prop aircraft is nothing compared to 4 engine jumbo jets. it takes decades of experience for those pilots to get to where they are. most captains are in their early 50's. these are extremely complicated aircraft to fly. i mean the basic controls are just like any other plane, but there is so much more that go on in these aircraft that it boggles the mind.
bin laden's value is around $200 million, he comes from a family with a construction buisness worth around $5 BILLION...the money was no problem
Well, as a non-pilot, i can tell you this, I know there is a big difference in different amount of power in a smaller vehicles than their larger counterparts. Look at all the accidents caused by not being able to controll all the power a car/motorcycle has. Now going from a turboprop to a comercial 767 I would imagine are night and day. Yeah, you might have the mechanics down, but to actually control it with enough prescision to be able to navigate straight to the target, plus hit it dead center I think takes some practice.
"It isn't easy to fly a large commercial jumbo jet with such precision. That requires training. Expensive training. No, Flight Sim 2K will NOT teach you how to fly one."
Actually few simulators can give you the "feel" of flying a big jet, IE,:g-forces they CAN give an accurate
model as to how the aircraft will respond to pilot control, Climb rate, roll rate, stall ect. Maybe enough
to get this horrible act done..
Actually few simulators can give you the "feel" of flying a big jet, IE,:g-forces they CAN give an accurate
model as to how the aircraft will respond to pilot control, Climb rate, roll rate, stall ect. Maybe enough
to get this horrible act done..
I'm sure that I'm underestimating the amount of knowledge needed for this to be pulled off. But I don't think that this is anything that could'nt have been pulled off by alot of other, less funded people.
Well, I suppose that could be true, but we wouldn't want to think that it was done by just the "country next door". We wanna think that it was a group with money to spend and the time and resources to do it. Since we are themost powerful country in the world, having a bunch of garden variety junkies do something like this to us is inconceivable.
There was no airport security breechs! These guys bought tickets and got on board. The weapons they were carring are (were!) allowed on nearly every flight how could anyone ever dream the damgage that could be done with them.
It is ludricus to think these piolts trained just for this mission. The guys doing the flying will probably turn out to be experanced pilots dedicated to the cause. So we are back to a relitivly simple plan. Airline tickets can be bought online the whole thing could be planned relitively easily and even at the last minute, given 4 experinced piolts. In some ways if it involved some spontinaity that would explain the lack of forewarning.
It is ludricus to think these piolts trained just for this mission. The guys doing the flying will probably turn out to be experanced pilots dedicated to the cause. So we are back to a relitivly simple plan. Airline tickets can be bought online the whole thing could be planned relitively easily and even at the last minute, given 4 experinced piolts. In some ways if it involved some spontinaity that would explain the lack of forewarning.
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