Why does everyone say a CS degree is worthless?

[apac]

Alright, I hear this tossed around the forums all the time and want a straight answer. I'm mostly appealing to CS majors that have recently graduated.

I just finished my first semester as a CS major and the advisors seem to think the market is still fairly open to new programmers. The CS department at Colorado Univ. is quite good and focuses primarily on the C++ language, which I'm quite familiar with already. In high school I took a couple low level programming courses and AP CompSci and was one of the few who actually enjoyed them, so it's not like I entered the field blindly. Programming is something that just clicks with me - a combination of math and problem solving served straight up. I'm a very focused person when it comes to work, in that I tend to immerse myself in a project for hours at a time, so I don't mind the long hours of coding. However, even though I like the field I'm in, it's irritating to hear adults not related to the field tell me "Oh, CS major huh? Not many jobs out there for you these days."

So in all seriousness, is the market as hopeless as everyone seems to think? I plan on getting an internship over the summer to get some work experience.

 

[Soybomb]

Who says that? Have you looked at any job listings? Looks far from useless to me. There is some competition in the market, but if its what you like to do why worry what someone else thinks of it. By the time you're done with your degree the market should be a bit better anyway.

 

[yoda291]

CS teaches you programming.
CS teaches you poor programming.
CS teaches you theory.
Programming positions have high turnover rates.
IT cycles through various technical innovations every 6 months or so.

So add it all up. You graduate with degree in hand and you're a inexperienced programmer with "maybe" a year or two actual programming experience under your belt at best (good internship/job during school). Since programmers are generally hired on either 1099 basis or are already staffed, you're competing with people that have 5-10 yrs experience in whatever language you learned. Additionally, they've done it so long, they have a much stronger grounding than you in terms of new innovations as well as the industry contacts. To top it all off, a year or so down the line, if you haven't been actively keeping up with the industry, you've just become obsolete because the next graduating class is out clawing for your position and the stuff you've learned in school is already old hat.

Also, the stuff you learned in your undergraduate CS....you never ever ever really use it.

I got my undergrad CS degree from NYU about a year ago. Doing well tho myself because I had friends and know wtf I'm doing.

 

[kerokeroppi82]

people who needs code now just outsource it to other countries cause its faster and cheaper. If you want to stay in CS, I would highly recomend learning databases (SQL, ASP, PHP, ADO, etc) those jobs seem to be abundent these days cause you cant outsource stuff you need to constantly monitor.

 

[apac]

Originally posted by: yoda291
CS teaches you programming.
CS teaches you poor programming.
CS teaches you theory.
Programming positions have high turnover rates.
IT cycles through various technical innovations every 6 months or so.

So add it all up. You graduate with degree in hand and you're a inexperienced programmer with "maybe" a year or two actual programming experience under your belt at best (good internship/job during school). Since programmers are generally hired on either 1099 basis or are already staffed, you're competing with people that have 5-10 yrs experience in whatever language you learned. Additionally, they've done it so long, they have a much stronger grounding than you in terms of new innovations as well as the industry contacts. To top it all off, a year or so down the line, if you haven't been actively keeping up with the industry, you've just become obsolete because the next graduating class is out clawing for your position and the stuff you've learned in school is already old hat.

Also, the stuff you learned in your undergraduate CS....you never ever ever really use it.

I got my undergrad CS degree from NYU about a year ago. Doing well tho myself because I had friends and know wtf I'm doing.

Some good points, others that I disagree with, but I'm about to pass out so I'll just say thanks for the response . I'm not too worried about myself based on the fact that I actually enjoy programming enough to keep me interested and motivated. It just seems like everyone is against you in this field . I get a lot of "What engineering major are you? Civil? Mechanical? ....Oh...CS..."

 

[nife4]

In july i shall enter DeVry for a duel degree in Electrical Engineering Tech and Computer Engineering Tech....

 

[johnjbruin]

there are jobs out there. you just gotta know where to look. plus if you like it then definitely go for it.
since you just started college, remember this: MAKE CONTACTS. jobs will not come to you and your applying randomly will NOT get you a job (at least 99% of the time).
People you know, will be the ones who will get you a job, specially the first one.
So... MAKE CONTACTS. Cannot emphasize it enough.

 

[AreaCode707]

The internship is going to be a good place to start. It'll be worth as much or more on your resume than your CS degree if it's a good internship. Of course, you probably need the degree to get the internship. Work experience is really what gets you hired. The degree can sometimes be a needed requirement but rarely, if ever, do you get hired just for your degree.

<---- in recruiting.

 

[gopunk]

Why does everyone say a CS degree is worthless?

i think that most of the people that say a cs degree is worthless are those who couldn't make it in the field... people who expected the degree to guarantee them a job or something. the degree itself is probably not going to get you hired alone (what bachelor degree does?)... but if you are bright, go to a decent school, and put in good effort, the knowledge you gain will.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: HotChic
The internship is going to be a good place to start. It'll be worth as much or more on your resume than your CS degree if it's a good internship. Of course, you probably need the degree to get the internship. Work experience is really what gets you hired. The degree can sometimes be a needed requirement but rarely, if ever, do you get hired just for your degree.

<---- in recruiting.

Very true. Degrees are typically only used as resume filters for HR departments in clueless companies. The two factors of previous work experience and how well you can present yourself in a first, second, and third round of interviews are what will get you the job. If you do get hired, no one will give a rat's ass where you went to school or whether you have a degree; you will get asked all the time (and with great interest), however, where you used to work.

It's really sad because education is truly a valuable thing; it's just not all that valuable in the context of employment in the IT field. On the other hand, if you're an uneducated retard who says things like "never seize to amaze me", "should of", and "for all intensive purposes", then your ignorance will shine through in the interview like a lighthouse beacon.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

If you start now you'll probably get material based on C++. Once you are done you will know quite a bit about C++, but unfortunately for you the market will already demand whatever version will follow C#.

Materials are only updated every so often, and are outdated again by the time they finish writing it.

Edit: Do like a lot of people who want to be programmers: Take Psychology or something, teach yourself programming in your spare time, and you will know a decent bit about programming by the time you get your degree, and you will be able to show a degree as well as experience with several recent programming languages.

If you want hardware experience as well just take up Physics or Electrical Engineering instead.

 

[ajayjuneja]

Just passing on my 2 cents:
I'm a senior over at CMU in CS, graduating this summer. I've never been unemployed for a single summer yet, and have interned at several places. There is ALWAYS new technology to be made, and while some of the stuff I'm doing now is cross disiplinary between CS/Mech E/and Computational Linguistics, you'll see all the engineering fields blend together and separate into specialties as you go through the curriculum. As for the "will you have a job after you graduate?" bit, well, I had an $80,000 job offer I turned down in November.

 

[jaybert]

Originally posted by: ajayjuneja
Just passing on my 2 cents:
I'm a senior over at CMU in CS, graduating this summer. I've never been unemployed for a single summer yet, and have interned at several places. There is ALWAYS new technology to be made, and while some of the stuff I'm doing now is cross disiplinary between CS/Mech E/and Computational Linguistics, you'll see all the engineering fields blend together and separate into specialties as you go through the curriculum. As for the "will you have a job after you graduate?" bit, well, I had an $80,000 job offer I turned down in November.

dude, you goto CMU and are in their CS program, of course you have no problems finding a co-op/internship!! #1 CS program in the world, what do you expect

 

[ajpa123]

I agree with Skyclad1uhm1.. here's my opinion...

Major in something like cognitive science/psychology/marketing. When you combine this degree with an online portfolio of web-accessible programming projects (either taking a few computer classes or doing it over the summer in your spare time), you will have a much better chance of landing a better and probably more interesting and fun job because you have more depth than the average new comp grad.

 

[Spamela]

Originally posted by: apac
Alright, I hear this tossed around the forums all the time and want a straight answer. I'm mostly appealing to CS majors that have recently graduated.

I just finished my first semester as a CS major and the advisors seem to think the market is still fairly open to new programmers. The CS department at Colorado Univ. is quite good and focuses primarily on the C++ language, which I'm quite familiar with already. In high school I took a couple low level programming courses and AP CompSci and was one of the few who actually enjoyed them, so it's not like I entered the field blindly. Programming is something that just clicks with me - a combination of math and problem solving served straight up. I'm a very focused person when it comes to work, in that I tend to immerse myself in a project for hours at a time, so I don't mind the long hours of coding. However, even though I like the field I'm in, it's irritating to hear adults not related to the field tell me "Oh, CS major huh? Not many jobs out there for you these days."

So in all seriousness, is the market as hopeless as everyone seems to think? I plan on getting an internship over the summer to get some work experience.

if you really like it, then stick with it.

i've never had trouble getting a job,
so it's hard for me to relate to the "there aren't any jobs in CS" whining,
which, to me, really means "i don't know how to find a job in CS."

 

[rsd]

I'm going to generally disagree with the posters suggesting to major in something else and do programming/CS on the side. If you truly want to learn the theory and programming, you need to get a good foundation that often times cannot be taught by a book. I have a MS in CS and work at a non traditional place for programmers (bio-tech company but in a manufacturing support group), and I work with one other guy programming wise. He is really knowledgable but he is a Chem Eng. by trade. Not to insult the guy at all, but there is a difference between someone who is properly trained vs someone who picks up programming on their own. Concepts such as stacks, queues, various algorithms, search trees, etc etc is stuff that you do not always pick up reading "How to program in 24hrs" or what not. Maybe you wouldn't always use that stuff all the time, but I believe they are key.

Basically if you want to program, do it right. It is as much an engineering discipline as EE or Civil etc. That is why it is called Software Engineering. Any idiot can learn a programming language, properly designing your code and projects is the difference.

And yeah it may be more difficult to find a job in CS than, lets say a few years ago when they were throwing bonuses at people like crazy. But all my friends who graduated then and got those jobs, have all been layed off at some point or another.

Furthermore, I would say it is just the general economy and market making it difficult for everyone. I had a friend who got his Masters in Mech Eng from MIT. Took him months to find a job, then he got laid of from it a few months later. He eventually found another.

My point is, do what you enjoy but take it seriously enough too. If you work and study hard, and take the job search serioiusly and make contacts etc, etc etc, you will find a job. Maybe you won't make 100k starting off, but you will be happy doing something you enjoy than being miserable and making a few more bucks.

Originally posted by: ajpa123
I agree with Skyclad1uhm1.. here's my opinion...

Major in something like cognitive science/psychology/marketing. When you combine this degree with an online portfolio of web-accessible programming projects (either taking a few computer classes or doing it over the summer in your spare time), you will have a much better chance of landing a better and probably more interesting and fun job because you have more depth than the average new comp grad.

 

[rsd]

Stupid double post.

 

[yllus]

So in all seriousness, is the market as hopeless as everyone seems to think? I plan on getting an internship over the summer to get some work experience.

Not in the least! If you're a competent 4-year graduate of the sciences, your initial worth is going to start out at a higher level than many of your non-pedigreed peers right away. University graduates are expected to have three edges on their competition:

1) They have a better in-depth knowledge than non-degree holders. That is, while any fool can memorize the syntax of SQL, there aren't many people who can plan out a 3-tier application/processing/storage system that uses a SQL database as its backend and holds some potential for expansion and flexibility down the line.

I'm not saying that degree holders automatically graduate with this additional knowledge - just that they can be expected by their employers to pick it up and implement it smartly if the need arises. They likely understand the theory behind multiple tier systems and the appropriate layout. That same expectation is not necessarily made with a graduate of DeVry.

2) A 4-year degree means that you are capable of learning, and learning faster than your peers who presumably couldn't cut it in university. We all know how quickly technology is moving. Who would you rather hire and expect to keep up with the flood?

The notion that the things you learn in university for Computer Science are useless is ludicrous. I don't know about you, but after I learned Pascal in grade 11 of high school and C++ in grade 12, I was able to adapt to writing any modern language in a week's time. Languages are a dime a dozen. Who cares. Pick up an O'Reilly book and you'll be set.

A comp sci graduate should know how and where to optimize the processing of any language. A comp sci graduate should know how to run tests to find inefficiencies and know how to address them. A comp sci graduate should realize that employers rarely ask for the best, most efficient solutions to programming issues - they'll be happy enough if it runs smoothly and you finish on deadline.

3) An university degree holder in computer science is expected to be a more well-rounded candidate than the average ITT Tech graduate. Someone who can make the odd PowerPoint presentation in front of the company executives, field their questions and have a game of golf with the CEO afterwards. Speak well, dress well, be a Candidate For Promotion (capitalization intended).

 

[zerocool1]

does this sound like a good idea... getting my degree in CIS at Bradley and minors in Business and German. I'm a freshman this year, so I can use the advice.

 

[halik]

thats why im doing double in CS and economics

i hate the CS theory thought, discrete math, big 0, complexities, recurrence relations ....yuck. I just wanan get diploma in that so i can do IT consulting on the cost/deployment side (yay economics...i like that lot more)

 

[Crusty]

My bro is graduating in May with a BS in CS from the University of Texas. He landed a job with Lockheed Martin in Washington DC that pays well

 

[Ameesh]

i dont think my degree is worthless

 

[atom]

People just need to readjust their expectations. Nobody's gonna get on their knees and suck your d!ck just to get you to join their company when you flash your CS diploma anymore. Just like any other industry, theres competition now.

 

[jpeyton]

It won't be useless as long as companies need you to train some Indians.

 

[lowfatbaconboy]

apac - Call it the University of Colorado at Boulder....not Colorado University (unless thats a college im unaware of)

and have fun trying to get an internship out of CU your first year out in CS......year i came in they said 2 MINORITY GIRLS got internships in CS after their freshmen year....and thats it...... (and CS is like what 7-10% girls at CU at most....)

im a junior by credits at CU (in CS) and im trying like hell to get an internship this summer ....you have to start applying early ie....now and go to the job fairs on campus....

I have a friend who is a senior in CS and he said we are something like 3rd in the nation for CS at public schools.....maybe its b/c CS is in engineering at CU and not in natural sciences....
(i wanna see the stats for myself so if anyone knows of a link or has seen that before it would be appreciated)

and as someone said...make contacts.....all my friends with computer related jobs/internships got them mainly through parents, people they knew, or parents friends

i sure as hell hope there are jobs in CS when i get out b/c im sticking in it and don't know what the hell else i would do if i wasn't in it