Why does everyone bash on GM and other domestic brands?

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Ok...well let's look at hte marketplace from a non-enthusiast consumer point of view.

Assume someone wanted to buy a economy car that would last them 10 or so years. Why would they choose a Neon or Cavalier/Sunfire over a Civic/Corolla??
The only worthy Domestic contentder is the Focus.

Same goes for the midsize segment. Why choose a Malibu/GrandPrix/Taurus/Sebring over a Accord/Camry/Altima? On a side not, I think the Malibu is pretty good though.

Have you guys ever driven a Camry? Do you have any idea how smooth and refined it is? There are no rattles, the ride is very smooth and queit. The Malibu has noise, the interior rattles a little (not a lot though), and the ride isn't as refined.

Uhm.. my cavalier has 178k miles on it, and the engine is still running strong. it's a 15 year old car, and the transmission finally gave out. I've raced eclipses with it and beat them (it was close but I won). I'd take a late 80s/early 90s cavalier over any economy car from that period.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Yeah so...am I the only one that likes Buicks? 😛 And how is that Buicks are built well, while their other counterparts are crap?

I like to think of GM's different car brands as a model line-up, each brand (think of it as a model) serving a specific niche:
Sporty = Pontiac
Simple Transportation = Chevy & Saturn
Cushy & Comfy Ride = Buick
Luxury = Caddillac

And within each brand, the models cater to different financial sector, while still having the general feel of the brand. For example, Pontiac should have sportiness in all their cars..and are taking the right step with the GTO and Solitsce.

I think this approach to the market is awesome, you can cater to every want AND financial segment. So the poor people who want something sporty can buy a lower-model Pontiac. Now this brings us to next hurdle: Pontiac SHOULD actually have sporty cars. The Sunfire should be sporty rather than being a turd on wheels.

Also, what is the different between the Grand-Am and the Malibu (apart from appearance)? Nothing! While the Grand Am has percieved sportiness with its styling and nice rims, it still rides like a turd. GM should have totally retuned the suspension/steering/drivetrain to live up to its ad slogan. But they didn't, and this is why they lack.

Buick & Caddilac are the only two brands which are true to their name. If GM fixes up the rest of the brands and improves build quality, they will be selling a whole lot more cars and this time, people will actually desire for them!

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: nan0bug

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Ok...well let's look at hte marketplace from a non-enthusiast consumer point of view.

Assume someone wanted to buy a economy car that would last them 10 or so years. Why would they choose a Neon or Cavalier/Sunfire over a Civic/Corolla??
The only worthy Domestic contentder is the Focus.

Same goes for the midsize segment. Why choose a Malibu/GrandPrix/Taurus/Sebring over a Accord/Camry/Altima? On a side not, I think the Malibu is pretty good though.

Have you guys ever driven a Camry? Do you have any idea how smooth and refined it is? There are no rattles, the ride is very smooth and queit. The Malibu has noise, the interior rattles a little (not a lot though), and the ride isn't as refined.

Uhm.. my cavalier has 178k miles on it, and the engine is still running strong. it's a 15 year old car, and the transmission finally gave out. I've raced eclipses with it and beat them (it was close but I won). I'd take a late 80s/early 90s cavalier over any economy car from that period.

Ok. How does it drive? is the engine loud? Does the entire interior rattle? My friend's 88 Camry with 300k (km) is on original everything and the ride is still quiet and no rattles are in the cabin. On the flip side, my friend's 94 Caravan finally went thru its 4th (!!) transmission!

 

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: OS

I think alot of the blame lies on the Unions also, it's basically a giant freaking leech that sucks any hope of true competition out of the domestics. GM has to pay a unionized worker something like 70K a year to do something a robot could do for 30K for the next 5 years.

There you have it. The most intelligent thing said in this thread so far.

 

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: nan0bug

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Ok...well let's look at hte marketplace from a non-enthusiast consumer point of view.

Assume someone wanted to buy a economy car that would last them 10 or so years. Why would they choose a Neon or Cavalier/Sunfire over a Civic/Corolla??
The only worthy Domestic contentder is the Focus.

Same goes for the midsize segment. Why choose a Malibu/GrandPrix/Taurus/Sebring over a Accord/Camry/Altima? On a side not, I think the Malibu is pretty good though.

Have you guys ever driven a Camry? Do you have any idea how smooth and refined it is? There are no rattles, the ride is very smooth and queit. The Malibu has noise, the interior rattles a little (not a lot though), and the ride isn't as refined.

Uhm.. my cavalier has 178k miles on it, and the engine is still running strong. it's a 15 year old car, and the transmission finally gave out. I've raced eclipses with it and beat them (it was close but I won). I'd take a late 80s/early 90s cavalier over any economy car from that period.

Ok. How does it drive? is the engine loud? Does the entire interior rattle? My friend's 88 Camry with 300k (km) is on original everything and the ride is still quiet and no rattles are in the cabin. On the flip side, my friend's 94 Caravan finally went thru its 4th (!!) transmission!

It drives great, great handling, although I wouldn't be able to hear a rattle over the nice loud sweet exhaust note coming from the car 🙂 Oh, did I mention it actually looks sporty without having to put all kinds of stupid ricey crap on it?

 

[Tsunami982]

wtf do you expect? fords are cheaper than import counterparts, therefore the quality will be a little lacking. american car is still best bang for your buck. so what if most of them will die in 6-7 years... do you really want to be a car that old? most people trade it in by then anyway. and for those people that say that resale on american cars suck... YOU WANNA KNOW WHY ITS SO LOW.... BECAUSE YOU PAID A LOT LESS FOR IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

ps. repairs on a domestic are going to be a lot cheaper in general than import.

i own ford ranger 97 xlt (4.0 liter), ford escort 98, mercedes E320, BMW 540i, and Subaru WRX (i gave into the hype and had to get one). surprisingly enough the cheapest car BY FAR (the escort) gives me the least problems.

 

[Slickone]

My thoughts:

Nissan Frontier has lots of torque down low:
Torque: 246 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 2800 rpm
Maximum Towing Capacity: 5000 lbs.

Who said this truck can't tow?


I've never liked Pontiac interiors.


Mitsubishi and Chrysler engines often smoke after they get some miles on them. Start watching for them and you'll notice it.

Whatever GM's quality is, Ford's is worse.
GMs look better than Fords.

 

[vi edit]

My thoughts:

Nissan Frontier has lots of torque down low:
Torque: 246 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 2800 rpm
Maximum Towing Capacity: 5000 lbs.

The GM 4.3L has 250 ft-lbs on tap at 2800RPM. It's Naturally aspirated...which is nice because it means less sh!t to break, and can run on the cheapest sludge at the gas station.