Why does Ati always remove the pipelines to make lower cards, instead of underclocking?

Xtasy

Banned
Nov 23, 2001
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I have seen this for a while now and think nvidias approach to make lower cards, underclocking them (ie. ti4200, ti4400,ti4600) and thus using lower quality components to lower cost. I think removing the pipeline is a serious hit to performance and is a unlikable quality for us overclockers.
 

gregor7777

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2001
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The same reason Nvidia brands Gforce2 technology as a geforce 4. To lower the price by saving room on the die so they can sell cards to people who don't want to spend $400.

Oh, and BTW, Radeon 8500, Radeon LE, Radeon LELE. 275,250,230.

 

merlocka

Platinum Member
Nov 24, 1999
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So you are referring to the Radeon -> Radeon VE, and now the Radeon 8500 -> Radeon 9000 ?

nVidia did this will both the geforce2 MX and the geforce4 mx as well. To make something cheaper, you have to take something out. THe less you put in a die, the less the part costs.

You don't save money by selling a "underclocked" Geforce4. A Geforce4 4200 chip cost nVidia just as much as a 4600 chip.
 

Rand

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
11,071
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nVidia does much the same as ATi in this respect.

The GF2 MX was a heavily cut down revision of the GF2 GTS.
For ATi they've done the same in the Radeon 8500 > Radeon 9000 transition.

It's a cheap low cost budget product, saves ATi money to manufacture and offers reasonable performance for the average person.

The GF4 Ti4200 is an underclocked Ti4600.
For ATi the Radeon8500LE is just an underclocked Radeon8500, the Radeon 9700 will be an undereclocked Radeon 9700 Pro.

It covers the mainstream, and offers performance close to top of the line without paying the hefty price premium and allow ATi/nVidia to sell of parts that arent up to spec for the 'high end'.


It's simply not realistic to push a card as complex as the GF4 core into the budget segment immediately after release, let alone the sub-$50 market segment. Consumers would be happy, but the stockholders wouldnt appreciate the plummeting profits, and heavy losses seen on the low-end.

I'm sure we would all love it if ATi released a heavily inderclocked R300 at $100.
It would provide awesome performance while leaving an appreciable margin between it and the R9700 Pro.
It would also cut away a dramatic number of sales of the R9700, and ensure that it will take ATi a VERY VERY long time to re-coup the R&D costs that went into the creation of the R300.


The low end is likely always going to be more then simply an underclocked high end product. The mainstream will generally be that underclocked hig end product, except just after release of a new generation in which the mainstream will be stuck as last generation's high end.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,043
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Removing pipelines makes the card far cheaper to produce than just picking the parts that didn't yield high clock speeds.
 

Xtasy

Banned
Nov 23, 2001
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Yeah i know, but from a wise consumer viewpoint, cutting back in the hardware of the chip is a big hit. I rather go for a board with lower quality components (ie. ti4200 to ti4600) than a neutered chip.
 

BP

Senior member
Sep 20, 2000
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A lot of people don't know much about vid cards and when they see Radeon or GeForce and a low price , they snap it up.
 

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