Why does America hate its teachers?

[Imp]

Like many things, they probably get respect upfront from kids/parents and shit on in the background by their bosses and peers.

After looking hard into becoming a teacher, I'm not surprised that there are issues with the education system. I am, apparently, completely unqualified to be a teacher, let alone eligible to attend teachers college. They want people with 75% academic degrees -- I got two lame, loser engineering degrees and they're not academic enough. It seems that you're better off with pure math, English, and history degrees then going straight into teachers' college... No wonder teachers had so much trouble explaining what most of the stuff we learned was good for outside of school -- and why they sucked at offering us any direction in life or what to do after high school.

 

[Mai72]

They shouldn't have retirements funded by the tax payer. Government employees should fund their own retirements via self contributions like most everyone else.

Everyone wants to be paid more. It doesn't mean they deserve to be.

Aren't the new hires on a 401 plan? I think the retiring on a government pension is a thing of the past.

I could be wrong.

 

[MrPickins]

They shouldn't have retirements funded by the tax payer. Government employees should fund their own retirements via self contributions like most everyone else.

Don't blame the teachers, blame the system...

I suppose you could blame the unions in the states that have strong teachers unions.

Everyone wants to be paid more. It doesn't mean they deserve to be.

And so they should stop asking?

 

[Jumpem]

Aren't the new hires on a 401 plan? I think the retiring on a government pension is a thing of the past.

I could be wrong.

I don't think that is the case in NY at least.

 

[Jumpem]

Don't blame the teachers, blame the system...

I suppose you could blame the unions in the states that have strong teachers unions.



And so they should stop asking?

I don't ask for raises. I take what I get, smile, and am happy to still be working.

 

[Mai72]

Like many things, they probably get respect upfront from kids/parents and shit on in the background by their bosses and peers.

After looking hard into becoming a teacher, I'm not surprised that there are issues with the education system. I am, apparently, completely unqualified to be a teacher, let alone eligible to attend teachers college. They want people with 75% academic degrees -- I got two lame, loser engineering degrees and they're not academic enough. It seems that you're better off with pure math, English, and history degrees then going straight into teachers' college... No wonder teachers had so much trouble explaining what most of the stuff we learned was good for outside of school -- and why they sucked at offering us any direction in life or what to do after high school.

I have a special ed degree. In my case I needed to take the Praxis test. For instance, if I wanted to teach a self contained math classroom then I would need to take and pass the math praxis. It's the same with English and so on.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Simple answer to your question, OP: (most) Koreans value education more than (most) Americans.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Americans do not place a high value on education, and they place a very low value on teachers in general.

Our education system has become a teach to the lowest common denominator. With NCLB you are lowering the standards down to insure that the half wit offsprings of ghetto moms graduate with a high school degree.

College has been diluted also to the lowest common denominator as well with the everyone deserves a college degree philosophy.

 

[WHAMPOM]

http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists...09/america-hates-teachers-the-new-normal.html

Teaching in South Korea for two years opened up my eyes to how badly teachers are treated in America. In Asia and mostly every where else teachers are respected. In America teachers are demonized and considered lazy. Their jobs are scrutinized, and they are told every time that they are to blame for society's ills.

I see the hate for teachers on ATOT. I wonder how many people who distrust teachers could actually do their job for a year. Teaching is not easy, but you wouldn't know it from the way people act. It's a bad time to be a teacher.

We should treat our teachers with better respect. Sadly, I don't think that's going to happen.

Scapegoating just like German Jews in the 1940's. Find someone that doesn't fight back and accuse them of crimes.

edit: just read the post above, all the proof is right there.

 

[John Connor]

it shows.

Thanks!

 

[rh71]

As far as 6 figure salaries are concerned the statistics might help clarify that. Teachers are REQUIRED to maintain an education themselves in most states. So, when you start laying out nonsense like "6 figure salaries are BS", you are talking about a group of people who over their 30 years of education must attain masters degrees and pHDs. So, I would EXPECT someone with a masters degree to make almost 6 figures and someone with pHD to exceed 6 figures. Since the group of people are statistically not "new", we will see a lot of people who have continuing education under their belt. Therefore, we will see salaraies commensurate with advanced degrees (the sample of people are necessarily skewed at a higher salary). It's like lawyers and doctors. As groups, they must attain higher education in order to do their jobs. So as a group, they make more money.

They are also in demand and they also do things that most people can't or wont do. And before someone spouts I "I can be a teacher" go try it for a few months and see how it feels. It seems quite unpleasant to me. (In many states, you can sub with just a degree in anything so give it a go). I don't teach and I never have. I did corporate training for 2 months as an instructor. Every day I was wiped out. It made me want to go back into the plant and do physical labor since that was easier. Doing something is less taxing than teaching someone how to do something. Especially when those people are kids who think they know everything (I do have two teenage girls and they can be a pain in the ass!).

See how that works? Try not to make blanket statements without some logic behind it or facts. In the end, this is a debate. It's not about winning or losing, but how you make your arguments. If you still think teachers are awful and make too much money, your opinion is clearly overriding your logic and it wont be changed. Don't hate on someone because you were too stupid to finish school and get a degree in something that makes you money. That's what we call "personal responsibility". Go teach if it's so damn easy and they make so much money.

EH

A masters in education is hard? And therefore they deserve 6 figures? Please. Compared to what else is it challenging? It requires an additional 2-3 years. I've seen it. The 30 years is also bs. Try not even 10. You know why they have 6 figures? They join a group who somehow obtained the power to designate their members as having equal ability so long as they have X years of experience, good or bad. You guessed it - unions. What about other states with teachers who must also keep up? Where is their 6 figures if all it takes is an advanced degree?

As far as demand, you should consider supply. When there are people lining up out the door but they give it to insiders with little to no experience, that argument is thrown out the window. Again, unions.

And genuine people study something based on interest, not income potential. Are you going to do something you don't even like nor have interest in until retirement? You mentioned stupid didn't you? I think you jumped the shark with your last paragraph there.

 

[Mai72]

A masters in education is hard? And therefore they deserve 6 figures? Please. Compared to what else is it challenging? It requires an additional 2-3 years. I've seen it. The 30 years is also bs. Try not even 10. You know why they have 6 figures? They join a group who somehow obtained the power to designate their members as having equal ability so long as they have X years of experience, good or bad. You guessed it - unions. What about other states with teachers who must also keep up? Where is their 6 figures if all it takes is an advanced degree?

As far as demand, you should consider supply. When there are people lining up out the door but they give it to insiders with little to no experience, that argument is thrown out the window. Again, unions.

And genuine people study something based on interest, not income potential. Are you going to do something you don't even like nor have interest in until retirement? You mentioned stupid didn't you? I think you jumped the shark with your last paragraph there.

I don't know where you live, but I can assure you no one is making over $100k a year in my city. I've worked with a teacher who had 30+ years experience and she topped off at $75k. I don't think that's a lot of money in New Jersey. The $100k teaching salaries you read about are a crock of sh*t. Yes, there are teachers who make $100k, but they are in the minority. Moving up in the teaching profession takes a long time. The steps are too small. You can't really move up unless you get a MA and many certificates. This is why a lof of men who go into teaching become principles and administrators. The pay just isn't there.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

A masters in education is hard? And therefore they deserve 6 figures? Please. Compared to what else is it challenging? It requires an additional 2-3 years. I've seen it.

Exactly.

I don't want to offend anyone, but I'll be honest -- when I was in college, all the dumb kids were education majors. I'm not saying everyone who does it is dumb (in fact, I had a lot of good, intelligent teachers growing up) but it is an easy major and a Master's in education is also pretty easy. There's also a reason why many call the PhD in Education the easiest PhD as well.

With that being said, I had some awesome teachers growing up. You could tell which ones cared about teaching and the kids and which ones were there for the pay check.

 

[rh71]

I don't know where you live, but I can assure you no one is making over $100k a year in my city. I've worked with a teacher who had 30+ years experience and she topped off at $75k. I don't think that's a lot of money in New Jersey. The $100k teaching salaries you read about are a crock of sh*t. Yes, there are teachers who make $100k, but they are in the minority. Moving up in the teaching profession takes a long time. The steps are too small. You can't really move up unless you get a MA and many certificates. This is why a lof of men who go into teaching become principles and administrators. The pay just isn't there.

Do you have a union there? Look at my original post in this thread and click the link. We've now had 4 teachers from K and 1st grade and the lowest salary has been $106k. It is not the minority here in NY, including towns that are POOR in every sense of the word. I also stated that $70k is exactly what I feel is good for what they do and what is required of them, 9 months of the year. Even in the "high COL" area everyone perceives it to be. If you can't live comfortably on $70k along with a partner's salary, then it's the profession not the pay. Should everyone in every industry deserve 6 figures?

My argument also applies to LI cops and their unions too. They are also on this gravy train but the difference is they risk their lives to a certain extent (at least the grunts do). What's funny.. We now have speed cameras at school zones for revenue to make up for a budget shortfall, all to pay these cops. And who's among the complainants? LI union teachers who drive through these speed zones and get tickets. F these unions.

To be honest I wouldn't give a crap what they made if it weren't for them taking it right from our pockets. We're so over-taxed with no infrastructure improvements to show for it. Selfish fucks.

 

[Mai72]

Do you have a union there? Look at my original post in this thread and click the link. It is not the minority here in NY, including towns that are POOR in every sense of the word. I also stated that $70k is exactly what I feel is good for what they do and what is required of them, 9 months of the year. Even in the "high COL" area everyone perceives it to be. If you can't live comfortably on $70k along with a partner's salary, then it's the profession not the pay. Should everyone in every industry deserve 6 figures?

I will take a look at your link.

As I stated before I live in New Jersey. We have the New Jersey Education Association (NJEA). They are a very powerful teachers union. There is always major strife between Chris Christie and this organization.

There are teachers in NJ who make $100k. I'm not denying that. I also know that there are teachers in NY who make $100k. In NJ it's not common to make such a high wage. Typically teachers who work for 30 years top out at $75k. Now, if you're fortunate enough to get a position in a wealthy district then the potential is there to make a six figure salary.

Not everyone should make a 6 figure salary. Normally it's administration who makes the money, but the stress is much more severe. More pay equals more stress. I agree with you that a kindergarten teacher shouldn't be making a 6 figures. That's insane. I blame the tax payers and politicians for allowing that to happen. We all pay for it in the form of higher taxes.

 

[phucheneh]

It's a chicken/egg discussion, really.

Frankly, there's no arguing that the current crop of teachers is terrible. There are so many people teaching who, at best, have an intelligence level on the very low side of 'average.' In many cases, they know absolutely nothing about the material that they are 'teaching.'

Why would we pay them more/respect them more? And, of course, in turn, why would anyone who was truly able to be a good teacher bother to do so when there is so little pay/respect?

 

[zerocool84]

Here in California, the teacher unions are the most powerful Union in the state. They have too much power, getting rid of teachers, even ones that commit sexual crimes, is not as easy as it sounds. It's very sad when a teacher gets caught feeding his semen to children for years and they have to go to court to STOP him from get his pension.

 

[Chaotic42]

I just got my BS in Mathematics in 2012. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but most of the other math majors were Mathematics Education majors, which meant that they needed a regular pure Mathematics degree plus several teaching classes.

I was surprised at that. Sounds like a horrible deal for $25-30K starting off, without even getting into just how bad the job is.

 

[cKGunslinger]

I had a speech teacher in high school try to brain wash us by saying we needed to listen to NPR. Now WTF does NPR have to do with public speaking?

Yeah! How the hell is listening to well-spoken, professionally-trained public speakers on National Public Radio supposed help with learning about public speaking! Gahh! Fucking libtards socialists! :awe:

 

[KeithP]

I blame teachers unions. How much sway do they have in South Korea?

This. Plus the cost of living in Switzerland is MUCH higher than the US. That "Purchasing Power Parity" calculation quoted in the article is garbage for this comparison.

But to the point...

People don't hate teachers. They hate the Unionized corruption and bureaucracy that sucks up so much of education funding away from actual teaching.

Teacher's Unions have done a great job of labeling those opposed to the teachers unions as hating teachers. It is a smoke screen designed to confuse the issue and fool those incapable of critical thought into supporting the unions.

-KeithP

 

[John Connor]

Yeah! How the hell is listening to well-spoken, professionally-trained public speakers on National Public Radio supposed help with learning about public speaking! Gahh! Fucking libtards socialists! :awe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqQRi9zpS0o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQSO0RbmHBI

 

[GagHalfrunt]

In regard to SK and the teacher's union I believe that they don't have much leverage. Not on the same level as the teacher's union in America.

So teachers in South Korea have to be good at their jobs while teachers in America can just accomplish nothing while screaming that they want more money because that would be good for the kids.

And you wonder why they're viewed differently? Maybe you're the one that needs a teacher.

 

[Jaskalas]

Teacher's Unions belong to a political party and thus half the country automatically hates them.

 

[compcons]

So teachers in South Korea have to be good at their jobs while teachers in America can just accomplish nothing while screaming that they want more money because that would be good for the kids.

And you wonder why they're viewed differently? Maybe you're the one that needs a teacher.

Nice generalization. Another generalization would be that only deuche bags and asshats generalize because they are ignorant dumb shits.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Nice generalization. Another generalization would be that only deuche bags and asshats generalize because they are ignorant dumb shits.

You're right, teachers unions in America never ever scream for more money and never ever blame their own failures on their paychecks. And they never ever strike to show how much they care about the kids learning. And they never ever strike over suggestions that poor teachers should lose their jobs because bad teachers getting fired would hurt the children somehow. They don't do those things that was a completely unfair generalization. Nope, never ever happens like that. I made it all up. Yep, that's the ticket.